I couldn't get this website to load most of last night...argh. I have never been an Evan fan but I think he skated hard and had the superior skate last night. I was very disappointed with Plushy's horrible choreography...I mean what was that? I thought he was auditioning to be a Chippendale dancer there at the end. His spins were sluggish..I admit I was pretty shocked at the overall lack of quality. Nice try but no cigar. I was pretty devastated at the scoring for Johnny but I thought he showed himself to be a true class act and his performance was beautiful and made me remember why I love figure skating. I was cursing the judges for an hour afterward.
Men's Free Skate - Thurs, 18th 8pm EST
- Thread starter DesertRoad
- Start date
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2006
Why can't there be a judging system that rewards both *successful* risks and beauty/magic/the "it" factor? Why should wobbly quads or quads with falls be rewarded? I'm not saying they should get no points, but why should they be a - or the - key factor?
I'm a bit worn out from last night and picking up this thread from where I left it 60 pages ago. So all I'll say is:
* I respect Evan's work and am not sick about his win... but it's hard to be excited either. The OGM is neither a successful risk-taker nor one who skates with beauty and artistry, and his winning skate was far from his best. Nonetheless, he played by the rules and won the game.
* Plushenko had too many wonky jumps and the last minute or so of his program was positively embarrassing. Many have pointed out how he could have won. I'm just relieved that he didn't, given the bobbles and idiocy of his program. If he had landed a spectacular quad and ended his program with decent (not even difficult) choreo, I would gladly salute him as the new Dick Button. (J/K about Button, not the salute.) It didn't happen. He was lucky to get silver IMO.
* Daisuke should have recognized his post-injury limitations, left out the quad, and skated with the brilliance we've come to expect from him. He should have been the OGM!
* Johnny's score is the big bummer and leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth about the whole event. Finally he delivers a near-perfect program with all the jumps landed and the intensity and beauty he's famous for... the audience responds by saying (in effect) Yes, this is figure skating! and he gets scored under the ghost of Lambiel. I don't know if he should have made the podium but 6th? Come on. Why didn't he get 8s+ in Performance and Interpretation?
Time to do chores before watching ice dance. Meanwhile, all congrats to Evan, Yevgeny, and Daisuke! And also to Florent Amodio, Denis Ten, Javier Fernandez, and yes Adrian Schultheiss for outdoing themselves at their first Olympics!
I'm a bit worn out from last night and picking up this thread from where I left it 60 pages ago. So all I'll say is:
* I respect Evan's work and am not sick about his win... but it's hard to be excited either. The OGM is neither a successful risk-taker nor one who skates with beauty and artistry, and his winning skate was far from his best. Nonetheless, he played by the rules and won the game.
* Plushenko had too many wonky jumps and the last minute or so of his program was positively embarrassing. Many have pointed out how he could have won. I'm just relieved that he didn't, given the bobbles and idiocy of his program. If he had landed a spectacular quad and ended his program with decent (not even difficult) choreo, I would gladly salute him as the new Dick Button. (J/K about Button, not the salute.) It didn't happen. He was lucky to get silver IMO.
* Daisuke should have recognized his post-injury limitations, left out the quad, and skated with the brilliance we've come to expect from him. He should have been the OGM!
* Johnny's score is the big bummer and leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth about the whole event. Finally he delivers a near-perfect program with all the jumps landed and the intensity and beauty he's famous for... the audience responds by saying (in effect) Yes, this is figure skating! and he gets scored under the ghost of Lambiel. I don't know if he should have made the podium but 6th? Come on. Why didn't he get 8s+ in Performance and Interpretation?
Time to do chores before watching ice dance. Meanwhile, all congrats to Evan, Yevgeny, and Daisuke! And also to Florent Amodio, Denis Ten, Javier Fernandez, and yes Adrian Schultheiss for outdoing themselves at their first Olympics!
You gotta love this one
http://www.rtve.es/imagenes/johnny-weir-siempre-polemico/1266563929149.jpg
http://www.rtve.es/imagenes/johnny-weir-siempre-polemico/1266563929149.jpg
Hello, posting for the first time, just to cheer you up a bit...
Daisuke said during his TV appearances today that he'd continue to skate (as a competitor) for a while, at least until he can be satisfied with his own skating. (Poor perfectionist!) He was happy to medal but not with the skating like he did yesterday. Besides, the 2011 Worlds is going to be a home game for him!
As for his participation to Turin Worlds, it is not yet confirmed but I guess he has to for Japan to send three men to the Worlds again.
So you'll see him around for at least another season, and hopefully for more!
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2010
When did I ever say Evan was an all-around skater? Feel free to browse every single one of my posts to find a post where I stated that.
No. I was talking about the nameless and unknown European/Asian/North American/ South American/Australian/African who may win at Sochi.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2005
The quote system messed up, so I'll have to post things this way.
On the quad not being the 3A for ladies: If Yu-Na wasn't around beating Mao left and right with performances without the 3A, I do believe a lot of ladies would be trying to put it into their program to catch up. As long as ladies can only do a 2A in the short and not a 2A or 3A, the 3A will never be important... if that changes, then you will see a bunch of ladies trying to get that 3A under their belt. (I believe it should, since many skaters have said they "can" do the 3A in practice, but don't include it in their programs... there needs to be incentive). The "quad for ladies" is more equivalent to a 3+3 combination.
On Plushenko and the quad: Plushy's made it abundantly clear that he doesn't think a skater without a quad deserves a gold medal... not counting his comment about Evan, but he also made comments about no one using a quad at Euros to win for the past 3 years, etc. The quad is definitely the defining move for him.
On the men's results in general: If there is one thing that I find annoying about the results, it's the PCS scores... an example: Kozuka should have had better PCS than Plushenko... if people really want to say Plushenko deserved the OGM, he should have had a program that wasn't so close technically to other skaters, because his PCS should have been MUCH lower than what it was, which could have wound up bumping him down to bronze or out of medal contention if Dai (or any of the other top competitors) skated just slightly better. To me, PCS is still an "iffy" scoring system... if marks are ranging between 7.50 and 9.50 for a single skill... something is obviously wrong with the system. More than anything, it seems to be a way of keeping new skaters down lower in the marks so we don't wind up with a bunch of one hit wonders... but PCS scores definitely do not seem objective in any way. PCS scores are always higher for skaters who have "been around the circuit" longer than others, regardless of skill.
In my opinion, this whole debate is coming from one issue... we had two skaters who are both not the complete package or well-rounded skating-wise take the gold and silver medals: so it is less about who won than what won the OGM. Lysacek doesn't have the jumps, Plushenko doesn't have the spins and artistry. If Dai (or another skater with great artistry and the jumping ability) landed his quad, skated cleanly and took home the OGM, I don't think this debate would be so intense... people who favor the artistic side of skating would be satisfied as well as people that favor a true "manly" (lol can't think of a better word) jumping ability would be satisfied as well. It just so happened that in this competition, the skaters that do have the artistry and the jumping arsenal didn't live up to the occasion and skate to 100% of their ability. I hope Daisuke's attitude of "give it your all to really feel like a champion" is something that sinks in with all skaters, because maybe then, in time, people will see what they REALLY want to see, not a "certain" skater, but the skater who shows the best of both the technical and artistic aspects taking the medal home.
On the quad not being the 3A for ladies: If Yu-Na wasn't around beating Mao left and right with performances without the 3A, I do believe a lot of ladies would be trying to put it into their program to catch up. As long as ladies can only do a 2A in the short and not a 2A or 3A, the 3A will never be important... if that changes, then you will see a bunch of ladies trying to get that 3A under their belt. (I believe it should, since many skaters have said they "can" do the 3A in practice, but don't include it in their programs... there needs to be incentive). The "quad for ladies" is more equivalent to a 3+3 combination.
On Plushenko and the quad: Plushy's made it abundantly clear that he doesn't think a skater without a quad deserves a gold medal... not counting his comment about Evan, but he also made comments about no one using a quad at Euros to win for the past 3 years, etc. The quad is definitely the defining move for him.
On the men's results in general: If there is one thing that I find annoying about the results, it's the PCS scores... an example: Kozuka should have had better PCS than Plushenko... if people really want to say Plushenko deserved the OGM, he should have had a program that wasn't so close technically to other skaters, because his PCS should have been MUCH lower than what it was, which could have wound up bumping him down to bronze or out of medal contention if Dai (or any of the other top competitors) skated just slightly better. To me, PCS is still an "iffy" scoring system... if marks are ranging between 7.50 and 9.50 for a single skill... something is obviously wrong with the system. More than anything, it seems to be a way of keeping new skaters down lower in the marks so we don't wind up with a bunch of one hit wonders... but PCS scores definitely do not seem objective in any way. PCS scores are always higher for skaters who have "been around the circuit" longer than others, regardless of skill.
In my opinion, this whole debate is coming from one issue... we had two skaters who are both not the complete package or well-rounded skating-wise take the gold and silver medals: so it is less about who won than what won the OGM. Lysacek doesn't have the jumps, Plushenko doesn't have the spins and artistry. If Dai (or another skater with great artistry and the jumping ability) landed his quad, skated cleanly and took home the OGM, I don't think this debate would be so intense... people who favor the artistic side of skating would be satisfied as well as people that favor a true "manly" (lol can't think of a better word) jumping ability would be satisfied as well. It just so happened that in this competition, the skaters that do have the artistry and the jumping arsenal didn't live up to the occasion and skate to 100% of their ability. I hope Daisuke's attitude of "give it your all to really feel like a champion" is something that sinks in with all skaters, because maybe then, in time, people will see what they REALLY want to see, not a "certain" skater, but the skater who shows the best of both the technical and artistic aspects taking the medal home.
did evan outskate evygeny to win- in jumps overall style -did evgeny mess up enough to come in 2nd
judges state yes,
evan skated clean yes with a forward landing on a jump and scratchly landing on another- that was overlooked by some,
evgeny who was forewarned in email by us canada italian judges no-got negative goes and a lot of zeros
evan a couple negative goes and couple of zeros but rest postitives.
girls will end up being korea-japan and canada, ice dance- canada-russia, france (unless stamina gets to them) than us or italy.
judges state yes,
evan skated clean yes with a forward landing on a jump and scratchly landing on another- that was overlooked by some,
evgeny who was forewarned in email by us canada italian judges no-got negative goes and a lot of zeros
evan a couple negative goes and couple of zeros but rest postitives.
girls will end up being korea-japan and canada, ice dance- canada-russia, france (unless stamina gets to them) than us or italy.
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2006
Sorry, if I mixed up.
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2010
You are forgiven.
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2006
Quick question, was Robin Cousins commentating for a network? If so, what were his opinions on the top 6 skaters ( Lysacek, Plushenko, Takahashi, Lambiel, Chan and Weir?)
For me the quad is not the 3A, is the 3-3 for ladies, barely how many will attemp it? Just because of DG the girls basically let a 3-2 become more important because of the goe, its the same thing in the men, A very nice 3-3 or just a 3A-2 will make the diference, i know its also important to have a very good program in terms of edging, transitions, coreo, spins, steps, but the sistem has just got to point when the dificulty does not matter.
I am just imagining if a lady perfom a 3-2 and win the gold medal, how everyone will be concern about the techical aspect, how also the sports is going backward and we are going to compare it with 2007 worlds where we had several ladies trying 3-3
I am just imagining if a lady perfom a 3-2 and win the gold medal, how everyone will be concern about the techical aspect, how also the sports is going backward and we are going to compare it with 2007 worlds where we had several ladies trying 3-3
He was commentating for BBC. Before Plushenko finished his program he already said that Lysacek had it, and seemed to agree with that outcome. As far as I remember, the only result that shocked him was Weir's, he expected better scores.
Apart of that I dont remember much cause it was around 5 am for me and I was falling asleep, but the BBC commentators liked Takahashi a lot throughout the competition, that's who I think they showed more enthusiasm about.
But that's because Mao has been having other problems besides the 3A and the fact that she doesn't include the 3-3 now. If Mao she does a good program with a 3-3 and 3As then she has the edge in the TES portion. The 3-3 for women is equivalent to the 3A for men. A lot of ladies can do it just that they are not consistent with it. The 3A is equivalent to the quad. But the most difficult program should have both 3A and quad for men and both 3-3 and 3A for women. Mao is kinda of Lambiel in that she does 3A but leaves out 3-3, just as Lambiel goes for his quad but has no 3A.
Watching Daisuke yesterday reminded me why I love figure skating so much. What a great skater he is. I am glad to read that he will stick around for a while longer
.I guess I am old fashioned but I like quads ..aherm so I actually enjoyed Plushenko's programme, even though he certainly could do with a different choreographer (or any choreographer :b) .
I agree with SpunSilver about Evan's win. I am fine with his win but his skating just does not "reach "me. I enjoyed Weir's programme a lot and am sorry he got marked so low both in the SP and LP. And it was nice to see Lambiel again, even though he was not at his best. I missed him
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- Joined
- Nov 12, 2009
ITA. We are not in 6.0 anymore and so unless the 3-3 is rock solid, it makes more sense not to do one. Sarah Hughes wouldn't have won gold under today's scoring system b/c her 3-3s were UR, and Mirai has said several times that growing up she could get away with UR jumps because of the 6.0 system. It's a new age with risks. If you fall on a 3-3, you get a 1 point deduction and -3 GOE, which lowers the value to below a 3-2 with no GOE and that's if the jump you fall on is fully rotated, if it's UR you lose points for that too. I really think they need to change the UR protocol though... 2 3/4 rotations is just not the same as 2.
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2008
LP placements should have been:
1. Kozuka (the fact that he received the lowest PCS for "Skating Skills" is a testament to how inane the judges are)
2. Weir
3. Takahashi
4. Lysacek (how on Earth did that Footwork Sequence get called as Level 4? Ridiculous)
5. Plushenko
6. Chan
7. Lambiel (pains me to rank him so low, but it was really just not good)
8. Oda
1. Kozuka (the fact that he received the lowest PCS for "Skating Skills" is a testament to how inane the judges are)
2. Weir
3. Takahashi
4. Lysacek (how on Earth did that Footwork Sequence get called as Level 4? Ridiculous)
5. Plushenko
6. Chan
7. Lambiel (pains me to rank him so low, but it was really just not good)
8. Oda
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- Nov 12, 2009
Why Oda so low? I thought he was awesome before his shoelace broke
Agree, how the h.. they marked him so slow with his speed and edging work
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2008
He was doing okay before the miss on the Triple Loop and then the break in the program. His jumps weren't as good as usual (a problem on the 3Axel-3Toe combination, a bit hesitant in the 3Lutz-2Toe-2Loop combination) and I don't find him to be an artistic skater. That huge mistake late in the program ruined it, though.
Some of the Canadian sportswriters today like Cam Cole and Rosie DiManno are boasting that Chan finished 5th, and 4th in the freeskate, but they omit the fact that he was overmarked. He had a couple of major errors, and as Elvis Stojko said today, he should have finished below Johnny Weir.
