Stojko opposes the ladies result

[karenll]

Yes, I don't think there's anyone who doesn't LOVE Yuna's 3/3. It's just that this Olympics has become somewhat of a snoozefest ever since it became evident that skaters who aren't Yuna have zero chance of winning the OGM no matter how well they skate. In every past Olympics, things have been unpredictable. Can you imagine in 1998 a clean Kwan being beaten by a 15 year old upstart with the skate of her life? Or in 2002 Kwan and Slutskaya being beaten by another upstart having the skate of her life? In 2006, Cohen, Arakawa, and Slutskaya were neck and neck after the SP. But here, Yuna and Mao both skated great, and there's a 5 point spread? And Mirai and others down by over 15 points? They could do five quad jumps in the LP while composing a symphony and doing their taxes and still not have a chance. It's like, can't we at least pretend that other skaters have a chance?

 

[Marrymeyunakim]

At the end of the day, I truly believe that had Mao been with a coaching group that could feed her positive energy, positive and complex choreography and enhance her technical ability, she would be on-par, if not better than Kim. Especially better if Kim had what Mao has now, a "consultant" (when times are bad) or a "coach" (when times are good)* who didn't give her the needed choreography or music to accentuate her remarkable skating qualities.

* I say this because earlier this season, Tarasova was quoted as saying that she was merely a "consultant", and this was when Mao was having a bad time. No doubt if Mao wins gold, Tarasova will be lapping up the attention once more for bringing up an OGM.

 

[Spun Silver]

Well, hypothetically 5 points can easily be made up in the FP.

However, I agree with karenll. It feels as though Yu Na is the foreordained queen, nothing Mao does can alter that, and there will be a scandal if anyone else wins unless Yu Na makes a huge error and Mao is absolutely flawless and incandescent. There's just been sooooo much hype about Yu Na and so little willingness on the judges' part to acknowledge that any aspect of her skating is less than ideal.

I'm trying not to hold this against Yu Na. It's not her fault! And she is an amazing skater. I just don't like the constant theme, "she's in a class by herself." She's not that fabulous, or maybe it's more accurate to say sometimes she's that fabulous, but sometimes and in some ways she's not.

 

[Johnnnn]

* I say this because earlier this season, Tarasova was quoted as saying that she was merely a "consultant", and this was when Mao was having a bad time. No doubt if Mao wins gold, Tarasova will be lapping up the attention once more for bringing up an OGM.

And now after the short program Tarasova is acting like Mao is her biggest treasure all of a sudden lol

 

[bmelanie]

At the end of the day, I truly believe that had Mao been with a coaching group that could feed her positive energy, positive and complex choreography and enhance her technical ability, she would be on-par, if not better than Kim. Especially better if Kim had what Mao has now, a "consultant" (when times are bad) or a "coach" (when times are good)* who didn't give her the needed choreography or music to accentuate her remarkable skating qualities.

* I say this because earlier this season, Tarasova was quoted as saying that she was merely a "consultant", and this was when Mao was having a bad time. No doubt if Mao wins gold, Tarasova will be lapping up the attention once more for bringing up an OGM.

Well to be frank, I don't see Tarasova as a proper coach; Mao doesn't train in Russia and Tarasova won't stay in Japan, which effectively reduces the time they spend together to a mere fraction of the time other skaters & coaches spend together. Moreover, she hasn't been able to dissuade Mao from putting too much emphasis on the 3As - as a renowned choreographer and coach, she should know the CoP as well as anyone else by now, yet still she lets Mao make these choices. I'm not saying that Mao should do away with the 3As altogether but looking back on this season and last season, those 3As have cost her so much. If she lands both tomorrow, perhaps we could say it was worth it, but I think we can all agree that this coaching team is not the resounding success of Yuna-Orser-Wilson.

 

[yangjie]

OK.

maybe if mao and yu-na skated cleanly in her FS, i think mao would win.

I know yu-na's skating are better than mao. but yu-na lacks physical strength ,so her skating in her FS wasnt as good as one in the SP.

i mean yu-na skates slowly in the latter half of the FS.

in addition, there are 2 point differences between yu-na and mao in thier FS.

so there will be no result like Evan-plushenko.

annway this is the If story, maybe mao or yu-na will make a mistake , and one of both who skated cleanly would win.

 

[Ren]

This might be a little off-topic: Please correct me if I'm wrong, but is Tarasova known as a "jump" coach? I thought that she is better known as a choreographer. When Yagudin went to her, didn't he already have his jumps?

 

[Johnnnn]

OK.

maybe if mao and yu-na skated cleanly in her FS, i think mao would win.

I know yu-na's skating are better than mao. but yu-na lacks physical strength ,so her skating in her FS wasnt as good as one in the SP.

i mean yu-na skates slowly in the latter half of the FS.

in addition, there are 2 point differences between yu-na and mao in thier FS.

so there will be no result like Evan-plushenko.

annway this is the If story, maybe mao or yu-na will make a mistake , and one of both who skated cleanly would win.

It is better than skating slowly (compared to Yuna) for the entire FS like Mao.

Also, if you look at Yuna's performance at TEB, she didn't get slow for the latter half and she didn't look a bit tired at the end

whereas Mao was sweating like she's been working out for an hour.

I'm sure Yuna will beat Mao in technical score if both skate a clean program becasue of the overall quality.

Also, there is PCS which Yuna always scores higher if judged properly.

Mao's creepy music and lack of good choreography doesn't really help either.

 

[Johnnnn]

This might be a little off-topic: Please correct me if I'm wrong, but is Tarasova known as a "jump" coach? I thought that she is better known as a choreographer. When Yagudin went to her, didn't he already have his jumps?

Tarasova wanted Mao to get technical coach for her jumps but apparantly Mao and her mom (most likely her mom) thought they didn't need one.

 

[Iscariot]

Even if they both skate clean the PCS will be way to diferent, talking about mao getting more than 62+ and yuna getting more than 68+, which i dont get it either but whatever, let the best player win

 

[Darcy518]

Shizuka Arakawa did a 3LZ-3T at 1998 olympics SP.

 

[yangjie]

It is better than skating slowly (compared to Yuna) for the entire FS like Mao.

Also, if you look at Yuna's performance at TEB, she didn't get slow for the latter half and she didn't look a bit tired at the end

whereas Mao was sweating like she's been working out for an hour.

I'm sure Yuna will beat Mao in technical score if both skate a clean program becasue of the overall quality.

Also, there is PCS which Yuna always scores higher if judged properly.

Mao's creepy music and lack of good choreography doesn't really help either.

anyway, i am really siprised that yu-na got mentally strong.

 

[chloepoco]

It is better than skating slowly (compared to Yuna) for the entire FS like Mao.

Also, if you look at Yuna's performance at TEB, she didn't get slow for the latter half and she didn't look a bit tired at the end

whereas Mao was sweating like she's been working out for an hour.

I'm sure Yuna will beat Mao in technical score if both skate a clean program becasue of the overall quality.

Also, there is PCS which Yuna always scores higher if judged properly.

Mao's creepy music and lack of good choreography doesn't really help either.

I like Yuna just as much as the next person. But, your constant negativity towards Mao is getting annoying. You repeat the same thing post after post, just using different words.

 

[Ren]

Well to be frank, I don't see Tarasova as a proper coach; Mao doesn't train in Russia and Tarasova won't stay in Japan, which effectively reduces the time they spend together to a mere fraction of the time other skaters & coaches spend together. Moreover, she hasn't been able to dissuade Mao from putting too much emphasis on the 3As - as a renowned choreographer and coach, she should know the CoP as well as anyone else by now, yet still she lets Mao make these choices. I'm not saying that Mao should do away with the 3As altogether but looking back on this season and last season, those 3As have cost her so much. If she lands both tomorrow, perhaps we could say it was worth it, but I think we can all agree that this coaching team is not the resounding success of Yuna-Orser-Wilson.

Could it be that Mao was really insistent on doing the triple axel? This jump is her signature move. I'm a little frustrated that her focus on it comes at the expense of the rest of her program, but I rather admire her strong will to keep it, in a 'full speed ahead, d*mn the torpedoes' kind of way. As for the location of training, if Tarasova currently has a lot of Russian students, it would make sense that she would rather stay in Russia. And IIRC, she is also responsible for taking care of a family relative (not sure if it's mom or sis). Couldn't Mao have moved to Russia instead? It would have been really hard for her (different place, language, culture), but being such a strong person that she is, I think she would have adapted splendidly. Moving the training base is what Virtue and Moir did. Yu-Na had to. I'm sure there are other skaters also who have made this sacrifice. Concerning money, Mao would have had it easier than some skaters, because she had won competitions, skated in ice shows, and has endorsements/sponsors. Perhaps she didn't want to leave her family and her education..?

Less than 24 hours to the free skate. I am sure that Mao will do her best. If she will be happy with her performance, then that is all I can ask for.

 

[Iscariot]

It is better than skating slowly (compared to Yuna) for the entire FS like Mao.

Also, if you look at Yuna's performance at TEB, she didn't get slow for the latter half and she didn't look a bit tired at the end

whereas Mao was sweating like she's been working out for an hour.

I'm sure Yuna will beat Mao in technical score if both skate a clean program becasue of the overall quality.

Also, there is PCS which Yuna always scores higher if judged properly.

Mao's creepy music and lack of good choreography doesn't really help either.

What do you expect from Mao if she doesnt have a minute to rest and breath, Mao has more stamina than Yuna, leave alone the jumps, i would be just on the floor after that step sequence

 

[Iscariot]

Shizuka Arakawa did a 3LZ-3T at 1998 olympics SP.

I totally forgot about that one, i saw it a few months ago and it was beatiful, i think it was the hardest combination a lady did that day

 

[Johnnnn]

I like Yuna just as much as the next person. But, your constant negativity towards Mao is getting annoying. You repeat the same thing post after post, just using different words.

Tell me one thing in my post that is not true. Did I make stuff up just to screw Mao? From your posts it seems like you don't want anybody to know the flaws of Mao which I understand if you are a big fan of her but this is not Mao Asada Fan Forum and I am free to express my opinion.

 

[magicalwords]

I have no problems w/ slight increase of base value for 3A, but then it already HAS been raised from 7.x (I think it was 7.8) to 8.5 about two seasons ago. However, I also have no problems with the point gap btwn Mao and Yu-Na after the short program. Kim had better qualities in jumps (which count for a lot) and she was faster (just general skating, flow in & out of jumps, spins, spirals, step seq.) overall, and her spin positions weren't that different from Mao's (except for Biellman - Mao better; and sit spins - Yu-Na better - actually has "better looking" position than Mao, because when Mao does sit spin it looks like she's sitting down and it ticks me off every time I see that) and she had more choreography and fire in that program. so that's that.

As for Stojko, I don't even think he cares about ladies comp. at all. I think he's just pissed about quad not beating no-quad, and trying to bring this whole argument into ladies just to get his point across. Which is just nasty.

 

[dlgpffps]

For me, it's not even the value of the 3A that's the issue...it's the PCS. I don't understand how Yuna gets 8s and 9s in PCS and Mao and other skaters can't break past 7s. I don't think Yuna deserves lower PCS, I just think Mao and some of the other skaters deserve higher PCS.

Mao got an equal number of 8s. Both skaters got in the 7 range for transitions, but for the four other categories, they got scores in the 8-band. The only difference is within that band. There was about a 1 point difference separating Yu-na from Mao. PCS-wise, the difference wasn't as great as your post would suggest.

Also, Yu-na did not get a 9. She got six nines in her protocal, but in the end she emerged with none. Also, in calculating PCS for each category, the highest and lowest scores are omitted and the rest are divided for an average. Mao also got four 9s and the highest single score, a 9.50 for performance. The averages were in the 8s though. The shocking thing, for me at least, is that Joannie had no 9s.

I'll break it down for you:

Yu-na/ Mao
Skating skills: 8.60 / 8.25
Transitions: 7.90 / 7.40
Performance: 8.60 / 8.40
Choreography: 8.40 / 8.10
Interpretation: 8.75 / 8.20
PCS in total: 33.80 / 32.28

The 5-point difference between Mao and Yu-na really comes down to GOE. I know the 3A is impressive (if you look at my past posts, I wholeheartedly agree that it should be given a greater bv), but in line with CoP, Mao does not meet the GOE-garnering qualifications. By that, I'm referring to Ito-style jumping in terms of height and distance and Buttle-style jumping in terms of beautiful transitions. I'll try to find the listed qualities (the checkpoints)... I had it somewhere.

Hope this helped


Edit: OK I found it!
For 2/8, a skater gets +1 GOE
+2 GOE for 4 bullets
+3 GOE for 6 or more bullets

1) Unexpected/ creative/ difficult entry
2) Clear recognizable steps/ free skating movements immediately preceding element
3) Varied position in the air / delay in rotation
4) good height AND distance
5) good extension on landing / creative exit
6) good flow FROM entry TO exit including jump combinations / sequences
7) effortless throughout
8) element matched to the music structure

I think #2 doesn't count for the required element in the SP. I'm not sure.

 

[chloepoco]

Yes, you're free to express your opinion. It's just that you keep expressing the same opinion over and over and over. But whatever.

Good luck to ALL the ladies tomorrow--you are ALL beautiful and talented!