Will There Be a Shake-up in Russian Figure Skating

[colleen o'neill]

Earlier on, someone started a thread about an article in which Rodnina said Piseeyev should resign. Today , this is featured on the BBC website :

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8543560.stm

I'll be watching for developments with great interest , since for some time I've felt that Russia has not been doing itself any favours by determinedly defending the status quo in their skating culture. If something is criticized, or not well received by the rest of the world, they simply dig in their heels and produce even more of the same. They don't seem to embrace change or growth.

Before anyone jumps on me with both feet (ouch!) , I'm sure this is true to a degree, in any country's skating hierarchy,( of course the premier coaches and choreographers would rather not make room for new comers, or adapt to new criteria , but in the end, there's really no stopping progress ) In Russia's case , this seems so much more evident ( dramatic?) .

In Ice dance, for example...I don't know all of the circumstances that led to North America lucking out when Igor Shpilband (now joined by marina Zueva) began to work here , but one wonders if lack of opportunity in Russia played a part.

I wonder if we're not seeing the kind of world wide flowering that happened in Ballet when Diaghlev et al left Russia for Paris.. If so I hope that Russia is quicker to pick up on new possibilities now than it was then. Everyone will benefit.

 

[figureskatingfan22]

I'll be watching for developments with great interest , since for some time I've felt that Russia has not been doing itself any favours by determinedly defending the status quo in their skating culture. If something is criticized, or not well received by the rest of the world, they simply dig in their heels and produce even more of the same. They don't seem to embrace change or growth.

Just for the record: the top 4 ice dance teams are trained by Russian/Soviet born coaches. Of the Top 9 teams 7 are trained by Russian/Soviet born coaches. Of all 23 teams at the Olympic 14 have at least one Russian/Soviet born coach. And now all Russia manage is a controversial bronze medal ?!
The Russian basis is still dominating ice dance. Nothing has changed here, but a lot of coaches now train other nation's teams. They have developed, Russia's coaches and their teams apparently not so much.

Domina/Shabalin also acknowledged that fact in the press conference. Marina Zueva later said she was never approached by Russian teams and she seemed not to be aversed to coaching Russian teams in the future (I think probably later futere, because of V/M and D/W).

 

[figureskatingfan22]

In Ice dance, for example...I don't know all of the circumstances that led to North America lucking out when Igor Shpilband (now joined by marina Zueva) began to work here , but one wonders if lack of opportunity in Russia played a part.

He defected during a Russian Tour through the U.S. He started small (in coaching) and was later joined by Marina Zoueva. Now they train the US Ice Dance elite. 4 of the Top 5 Ice dance teams at US Nationals 2010 where trained by Russian/Soviet born coaches. (Fascinating career)

 

[colleen o'neill]

Completely fascinating Being Canadian ,I know a bit more about Marina's path to their partnership , but I look forward to the inevitable articles about them that will be coming (I hope) after this year's success.

He first came to my attention with Punsalan/Swallow. I thought they had been under rated before they started working with him , but you could see a difference in their skating and material right away. I wonder if anyone else could have brought even a talented couple like Belbin /Agosto ahead as quickly as he did. He did wonders for Wing/Lowe, and this year for Hann-McCurdy/ Correno. Zueva's choreography is a perfect fit in this partnership.

I'm excited because other coaches/choreographers will have to stretch to keep up , which can only be good for everyone in the long run.

 

[blue_idealist]

Hmm, so all along it was the coaches making the Soviets successful, it looks like

 

[Tinymavy15]

Russia should be worried. They were lucky that Plushenko came back or they would not have made the top 10 in Mens. No medal for the pairs (now that two Chinese are retiring it will help, and I don't see Zhang and Zhang doing Sochi), and it remians to be seen if the teams they have will never be #1. Will K&S even stay on for Sochi? They are not that young. With Domina and Shabalin retiring there is not the usual young team waiting to take over. The ladies did not even approach the podium, and although there are some nice young talents coming up I am not sure if they are medal material for Sochi. Maybe 2018.

 

[colleen o'neill]

:think: and OTOH, should we ( everyone else ) be worried for the short term , considering just how upset the Russians are and considering the make up of the judging contingent at World's ?

I expect there will be change in the Russian system , but will it be slow and grudging , or quick and radical ? They have the talent , no question. And considering the contribution being made to skating in general by coaches / choreographers who have left Russia to work elsewhere, I can't help feeling that there must be talent still there in those fields who have had a tough time moving up in their professions. A lot can be done in 4 yrs. ,if you have the talent to work with.

 

[DesertRoad]

Do people really doubt that Russia can turn its athletic program around? The president got mad enough about it to almost bang his shoe on national TV. This is a huge deal. They will throw money and political pressure on it, and they will get results. Russia obviously has had athletic programs that worked in the past, and they continue to have a great deal of talent, tradition and people with knowledge. It's not like they're starting from scratch. This will be the narrative for the Sochi games in Russia: the Russian winter athletes make up for their shameful performance in Vancouver with a record bounty of medals!

 

[oleada]

I honestly think it's a period of transition between the before and after of the Soviet system. They'll rise from the ashes, no doubt. They have excellent juniors and young skaters in all categories except men, as their JGP results show in the last few years.

 

[colleen o'neill]

/\ No doubt ,about the narrative (ahem) Own the Podium..so to speak.

I do hope it's a real renaissance , though..not just gloss it over, declare yourself the best, the most artistic , misunderstood by the uncultured outside and meanwhile exert pressure behind the scenes.

Edit : adding on 'cause I just noticed this :

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8547082.stm

and this :

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8547814.stm

 

[Mafke]

I honestly think it's a period of transition between the before and after of the Soviet system.

What they need (and don't have enough of) are coaches and officials that don't think like Soviets.

 

[silverlake22]

Russian skating is on the rise! Plushenko and mini-Plush did great at the Olympics as did Leonova and Makarova and three Russian teenagers (Polina Shelepen, Polina Agafonova, and Anna Ovcharova) are favorites to win medals at Jr. Worlds next week! Plus there are countless other talented little Russian girls and boys that are doing very well on the Junior level. I think Russia has successfully regained it's reputation as a figure skating powerhouse after a brief lapse!

 

[katha]

I agree that the relatively disappointing results of the Russian skating team can be explained by the breakdown of skating institutions in Russia in the 90ies. This is now a period of transition before the effects of the recent improved conditions kick in. I would be surprised if they weren't already on the rise come Sochi. As for still thinking in Soviet structures, I do think that there is some evidence of that. Ordering skaters around, shaming them publicly when things don't work out etc. DomShabs' career is a prime example of that IMO. After the last Olympics Piseev basically threatened in interviews to split them up if they didn't do programs to the federation's liking. So from 2007 on there was no more Fifth Element and Karl Jenkins, only heavy Russian classics. Then they ordered them to change coaches to Linichuk. At least that's how it played out to me. And I just don't know if that is really the way to get results

Though I don't think that all, or even most, of the top coaches are stuck in that mindset. Vasiliev did well with T/M and does well with M/T, Zhulin seems to be flexible and accomodating when it comes to coaching his teams (not insisting on in-house choreography etc.), and I think that with Mishin it's more that he's a technical/jump coach who values these elements over everything else than being stuck in a Soviet mindset. He wasn't on that great terms with the Soviet rulers anyway, was he? I remember having heard something like that...? Don't know about Moskvina, she seems fun in interviews. Maybe her problem is that she's too determined to recreate B/S more than anything else. And the coaches abroad like Platov, Morozov, Shpilband, Zueva often do very well for themselves, perhaps the Russian fed should swallow its pride and approach them...

 

[oleada]

Moskvina knows how to play the COP game very well. Why do you think K/S score so highly? Their elements were always high level, regardless of what you think of their aesthetic appeal. And their programs had a lot of transitions.

 

[bekalc]

I'm not sure how much the officials can be blamed, considering the issues in the 90s. But maybe with the firings it will led to officials acting less like tyrants, since that's not working.

This being said I wouldn't write Russian figure skating off. They have some talented ladies singles skaters coming up (some who can be moved to pairs) Some talented dance teams coming up. Plus, theres talk that Tatiana V. may end up skating for Russia.

 

[Jaana]

I doubt that even if Rodnina or somebody else would be in Piseeyev´s place, things would change much if at all... There just is not talent available in these days. And I believe that Russian skaters have not such strong will to win and be the best anymore. Maybe other sport interest the talented young children with strong character (or their parents) more? Besides I think that some of the old Russian coaches should retire, perhaps.

 

[Ptichka]

The wild success of Soviet skating was contingent on Soviet political reality. Look even at Plushenko - I don't care what anyone says, it NOT NATURAL for a boy of 12 to be sent to live on his own just so he can train. It's JUST NOT RIGHT! Such things only happen when the alternative is so completely bleak that this sacrifice appears to make sense. Personally, I'd rather see Russian skating continue to be Ok but not spectacular rather than to go back to such a political and socio-economic situation.

 

[bekalc]

The wild success of Soviet skating was contingent on Soviet political reality. Look even at Plushenko - I don't care what anyone says, it NOT NATURAL for a boy of 12 to be sent to live on his own just so he can train. It's JUST NOT RIGHT! Such things only happen when the alternative is so completely bleak that this sacrifice appears to make sense. Personally, I'd rather see Russian skating continue to be Ok but not spectacular rather than to go back to such a political and socio-economic situation.

Well I'm sure most Russians would prefer that things get better than that too. But the situation at least allowed him to have a much better live. I'm sure if things got better than Plushenko would at least wouldn't have been on his own. After all in the article about Rochette, I read that she lived somewhere else on weekdays away from her family so she could train.

 

[Bennett]

I read a newspaper article saying that N. Americans took initiative in developing the COP whereas Russia has not had much input, and that this may be one of the reasons why Russian skaters have suffered lately. Is this analysis reasonable? I do not know how much input each country has actually had in COP development. Does anyone have better insight?

 

[Ptichka]

Well I'm sure most Russians would prefer that things get better than that too. But the situation at least allowed him to have a much better live. I'm sure if things got better than Plushenko would at least wouldn't have been on his own. After all in the article about Rochette, I read that she lived somewhere else on weekdays away from her family so she could train.

For one 3-time-Olympic-medalist Plushenko, there are dozens if not hundreds of unknown skaters who lose their chance for a normal adolescence and NOT end up with a better life. There is a big difference between living with another family during the week and being completely on your own living in a communal apartment in a huge metropolis.

Oh, and there is a bit too much nostalgia for the old days in Russia for my taste anyway. Forget about Brezhnev times - thousands of young idiots yearn for the return to Stalinism... I shudder to think of it.