NBC should have praised Plushenko because they are the no.1 promoters of bad sportmanship. :disagree:
USOC / NBC Praise for Evan Lysacek
- Thread starter janetfan
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NBC should have praised Plushenko because they are the no.1 promoters of bad sportmanship. :disagree:
- Joined
- May 15, 2009
Math, here is info from the clip you posted:
"Many thanks to quillerpen for the DVD.
This is a near complete LP in great quality. There's about 20 seconds missing just before her flubbed lutz jump. However the rest is lovely and while not her best skate - 1968 Nationals was the performance of her career - it's still a great historical moment"
I haven't seen a complete, start to finish clip of Peggy's Olympic freeskate anywhere. They all have the missed lutz cut out. Maybe that is why you and others did not think it was Peggy.
Watch the clip you posted and you can see the cut at about 56 seconds. Watch the Natls clip linked below and you will see her lutz that is missing from the Olympic clip.
Let me know if you can find her complete Olympic LP from start to finish and without the 20 second cut this clip and most others have.
Here is one of her best skates with her winning her 5th and last Natls in '68.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdPKgg8SGys&feature=related
This clip is complete and the same program she skated at the Olympics.
and yes, I see the dress is not green
Here is the '68 Silver medalist who did not fall and still came 2nd.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Z8-5Tnwodw
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Finally something that I, a fabriholic, can discourse about knowledgeably. The dress was chartreuse, a very yellowish green that Mrs. Fleming chose (she made her daughter's dress--another thing that was different about skating in those simpler days) because it might make points for Peggy in France, the location of Chartreux, from which Chartreuse liqueur originated. What it actually proved was that Peggy was one of the few people who could actually look good in that rather difficult color.
Peggy was the first lady skater I discovered, unfortunately after her amateur career. (I found her in one of her TV specials and was transfixed.) I naturally thought of her as an artistic skater, and I was quite taken aback when I learned years later that she had been such a strong school figures specialist. One thinks of figures specialists as lackluster free skaters, like Trixi Schuba. But Peggy had it all.
Peggy was the first lady skater I discovered, unfortunately after her amateur career. (I found her in one of her TV specials and was transfixed.) I naturally thought of her as an artistic skater, and I was quite taken aback when I learned years later that she had been such a strong school figures specialist. One thinks of figures specialists as lackluster free skaters, like Trixi Schuba. But Peggy had it all.
Mazurka jump.
I love the red dress and the lemon dress, ladies outfits back then look so simple and beautiful!And may I say they look a little too short???
In the era of the miniskirt in everyday wear, skating skirts had to be even shorter?
- Joined
- May 15, 2009
I love the red dress and the lemon dress, ladies outfits back then look so simple and beautiful!And may I say they look a little too short???
Do we complain if Joubert's pants are too tight?
And Peggy looked beautiful in those dresses. Her raven hair and green eyes made that green chartreuse dress come to life.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/cover/featured/8063/index.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chartreuse_(color)
The dress Kiira wore might be yellow chartreuse. Like the liquors for which the color is named chartreuse comes in green and yellow.
http://kiirafans.s234.xrea.com/modules/wordpress/attach/kiira_piruetti_1.jpg
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- Aug 18, 2010
Do we complain if Joubert's pants are too tight?
Sure, if they are as tight as traditional men's wear in ballet, yes, I'll complain. Johnny's black costume in New York was ugly. Jeremy's black costume in Korea was beautiful.
- Joined
- May 15, 2009
Math - I just saw your post which I guess you deleted.
I do not have video proof or an interview that might discuss "the fall."
Actually, I did watch Peggy's freeskate on TV back in '68 and my recollection is that she fell. After all these years I might not remember it so well. I do remember a fall - maybe it was on her 2A at either '67 Natls or '67 Worlds.
The jump mentioned on the '68 Olympic freeskate is not shown on the clip you posted or on any other clips I can find.
I am not sure if nobody discussing it for 42 years proves anything but you could be right.
Either way it was far from Peggy's best freeskate but she still won the freeskate very easily.
I was looking at scores - the factored scores - which I don't always understand from 6.0.
Dorothy won the OGM by 3 points. John Curry won the OGM by 5 points. Peggy won by almost 100 points.
Was the factoring done differently in '68 than it was in '76 when Dorothy and John Curry won?
This is not a big deal to me and I am fine if you can show Peggy did not fall at the 68 Olympics.
I do not have video proof or an interview that might discuss "the fall."
Actually, I did watch Peggy's freeskate on TV back in '68 and my recollection is that she fell. After all these years I might not remember it so well. I do remember a fall - maybe it was on her 2A at either '67 Natls or '67 Worlds.
The jump mentioned on the '68 Olympic freeskate is not shown on the clip you posted or on any other clips I can find.
I am not sure if nobody discussing it for 42 years proves anything but you could be right.
Either way it was far from Peggy's best freeskate but she still won the freeskate very easily.
I was looking at scores - the factored scores - which I don't always understand from 6.0.
Dorothy won the OGM by 3 points. John Curry won the OGM by 5 points. Peggy won by almost 100 points.
Was the factoring done differently in '68 than it was in '76 when Dorothy and John Curry won?
This is not a big deal to me and I am fine if you can show Peggy did not fall at the 68 Olympics.
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- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
I took this to mean that there was twenty seconds of footage missing before the flubbed triple Lutz. I don’t think she actually fell.
Here is Peggy’s own description of her performance, from her book The Long Program.
http://books.google.com/books?id=ux...ook_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CBoQ6AEwAg
About the Axel in the middle section she writes:
In the final section of her program,:
Quite interesting how she is calculating the points in her head all the way through.
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- Joined
- May 15, 2009
No triple lutz from Peggy or any of the Ladies back in '68.
But maybe that is the mistake I remember. It was certainly something Button and the judges saw and even the people on TV noticed - I think sitting with my family we let out a little gasp.
Any idea why there is no clip of Peggy's complete freeskate? Several clips and different versions of it never show the lutz in question. I am curious to see it now.
ETA: Reading through Peggy's comments again I will say it doesn't sound like she is describig a fall, just a few mistakes, some more noticable than others. I do not see her double lutz on clip.
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I think so. In 1968 there were 5(?) figures and a freeskate. In 1976 there were 3 figures, short program, and freeskate.
The actual points didn't make that much difference. At the time, what would matter would be each judge's placements for the event as a whole, and then the ordinal split for the whole panel for the event as a whole, although you can see the breakdowns for each phase. http://winter-olympic-memories.com/html/results/jp_3d/10_grenoble/10_figure/10_figure_w_ex.htm
I believe each judge's totals for each skater would be used as a tiebreaker, but ultimately it was the ordinals that counted.
After 1980 results calculated for each phase were assigned factored placements, so there was no margin of victory carried from one phase to the next.
Thanks, gkelly, for identifying that wonderful jump for me. The Mazurka Jump! Lol, I even looked it up on the 'net because I love it so much, and this is what I found (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070710164433AAxk82W). Also, there is a picture of a little girl doing the jump. When done just so, like Peggy & Mao's, it brings to mind a fairy having the time of her life just jumping up into the air with joy & exuberance! Like they're having a blast skating, dancing, jumping, bringing me along for the ride. 
I didn't realize Peggy had such huge jumps, it truly is a joy to watch her skate! Her axels are to-die-for, with excess room to spare, her first single axel looked gigantic, then came the effortless 2Axels with just as much height, as well as the delicious 2R/2R combo. No underrotations whatsoever, perfect. And then the simplicity & beauty of the spread eagle-into 1A-into spread eagle. Finally, the gorgeous layback with the joyous footwork to follow, which reminded me of Oksana Baiul's footwork at the end of her Swan Lake program at the 1994 Olympics. Peggy truly was the very first *modern* ballerina of this era, just as Sonja was during the first half of the 20th century. I simply love this type of skating.
And thanks so much to mathman for the quotes from Peggy's book (it makes me want to get mine out & read it again, as well as old tapes of her I have on VHS, which unfortunately isn't working at the moment). Her thoughts during her freeskate brings to mind Sonja's during hers as well. Only Sonja said she totally blanked out during the FS, however right before she took to the ice she had 3 things on her mind (1) she led in points (2) the ice was not too good (3) she had to be careful. This has me wanting to know what ALL of the Olympic Gold Medal Skaters were thinking before they took to the ice.
I do recall that Oksana had been injured the day before in practice, colliding with Tanja Szeweczenko, and as a result she had to have stitches in her right knee and her back & shoulder were also sore. Thus, there were concerns she might not be able to skate, but in one of her autobiographies I recall she said she didn't want to wait for another Olympics, she was determined to skate, so much so that on the very day of her FS she went for a long walk and ate a huge plate of everything she loved to eat (chicken being one). She forgot about her diet, and ate as much as she liked, lol. Then when it came time for her to skate I recall that the little flower girl had to come out and pick up some debris on the ice, after Oksana had been ready to skate, but this didn't deter her, she skated around again, crossed herself and took her starting position once again. From there, Oksana's autobiography states she recalled hearing the loud cheers for Nancy's skate, knowing she had did well. So with this on her mind, as well as Galina's encouraging words about Oksana's late mother, Oksana felt strong again and took her starting position, telling herself I can skate well. I must skate well. From there she only recalled her opening jump ~ the 3L ~ which she landed perfectly! And the cheers from the crowd encouraged Oksana, she played to them, loving every minute of it. But as she began her 5th jump, the 3T, she knew she could not complete the rotations and instead did a 2T. And instinctively she knew she was near the end of her program, there wasn't much time left for her to skate, and Nancy's marks had been high, very high. That's when she asked herself How much do I want to win? She quickly made the decision to change her program and attempted the 3T again, which she landed this time! With the crowd cheering loudly, she decided to give everything she had, so instead of finishing with a spin she changed it to a double-jump combination (2A/2T). I did it! she thought, I actually forgot the pain, and I skated my best!. With her arms raised heavenward, she wept with happiness.
I'm thinking it only gets harder to skate in the Olympics as one gets older, leastways it seemed that way for Sonja Henie, and I mean in terms of thinking. The older one gets the more cognizant/self-aware one is, and that results in more careful skating? When one is young & carefree, they think they'll never get old, they have all the time in the world. But soon they realize that's not the case anymore. JMHO. (;^)
Oops, and how could I forget Sarah Hughes magical skate at the 2002 Olympics, which remains my all-time favorite FS of anybody, man or woman! Ahhh, words can't describe that night. But I do recall reading about what Sarah was thinking, leastways before the start of her FS. She was mad at herself for coming in 4th in the SP, knowing she could do better, and she wanted to prove that to everybody in the FS, give it her all! And the last thing she saw was the clock, thinking in exactly one hour my life will change. Btw, earlier that day her practice was phenomenal, landing her 3/3s with ease, the commentators even remarking about it, and also her last practice with the final 6 was just as wonderful! Finally, her smile and ease when they called her name was the most relaxed and beautific I've ever seen from a skater, Scott Hamilton even commentating on it. You just knew she going to do good.^)
Lol, I even looked it up on the 'net because I love it so much, and this is what I found (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070710164433AAxk82W). Also, there is a picture of a little girl doing the jump. When done just so, like Peggy & Mao's, it brings to mind a fairy having the time of her life just jumping up into the air with joy & exuberance! Like they're having a blast skating, dancing, jumping, bringing me along for the ride. I didn't realize Peggy had such huge jumps, it truly is a joy to watch her skate! Her axels are to-die-for, with excess room to spare, her first single axel looked gigantic, then came the effortless 2Axels with just as much height, as well as the delicious 2R/2R combo. No underrotations whatsoever, perfect. And then the simplicity & beauty of the spread eagle-into 1A-into spread eagle. Finally, the gorgeous layback with the joyous footwork to follow, which reminded me of Oksana Baiul's footwork at the end of her Swan Lake program at the 1994 Olympics. Peggy truly was the very first *modern* ballerina of this era, just as Sonja was during the first half of the 20th century. I simply love this type of skating.
And thanks so much to mathman for the quotes from Peggy's book (it makes me want to get mine out & read it again, as well as old tapes of her I have on VHS, which unfortunately isn't working at the moment). Her thoughts during her freeskate brings to mind Sonja's during hers as well. Only Sonja said she totally blanked out during the FS, however right before she took to the ice she had 3 things on her mind (1) she led in points (2) the ice was not too good (3) she had to be careful. This has me wanting to know what ALL of the Olympic Gold Medal Skaters were thinking before they took to the ice.
I do recall that Oksana had been injured the day before in practice, colliding with Tanja Szeweczenko, and as a result she had to have stitches in her right knee and her back & shoulder were also sore. Thus, there were concerns she might not be able to skate, but in one of her autobiographies I recall she said she didn't want to wait for another Olympics, she was determined to skate, so much so that on the very day of her FS she went for a long walk and ate a huge plate of everything she loved to eat (chicken being one). She forgot about her diet, and ate as much as she liked, lol.
Then when it came time for her to skate I recall that the little flower girl had to come out and pick up some debris on the ice, after Oksana had been ready to skate, but this didn't deter her, she skated around again, crossed herself and took her starting position once again. From there, Oksana's autobiography states she recalled hearing the loud cheers for Nancy's skate, knowing she had did well. So with this on her mind, as well as Galina's encouraging words about Oksana's late mother, Oksana felt strong again and took her starting position, telling herself I can skate well. I must skate well. From there she only recalled her opening jump ~ the 3L ~ which she landed perfectly! And the cheers from the crowd encouraged Oksana, she played to them, loving every minute of it. But as she began her 5th jump, the 3T, she knew she could not complete the rotations and instead did a 2T. And instinctively she knew she was near the end of her program, there wasn't much time left for her to skate, and Nancy's marks had been high, very high. That's when she asked herself How much do I want to win? She quickly made the decision to change her program and attempted the 3T again, which she landed this time! With the crowd cheering loudly, she decided to give everything she had, so instead of finishing with a spin she changed it to a double-jump combination (2A/2T). I did it! she thought, I actually forgot the pain, and I skated my best!. With her arms raised heavenward, she wept with happiness. I'm thinking it only gets harder to skate in the Olympics as one gets older, leastways it seemed that way for Sonja Henie, and I mean in terms of thinking. The older one gets the more cognizant/self-aware one is, and that results in more careful skating? When one is young & carefree, they think they'll never get old, they have all the time in the world. But soon they realize that's not the case anymore. JMHO. (;^)
Oops, and how could I forget Sarah Hughes magical skate at the 2002 Olympics, which remains my all-time favorite FS of anybody, man or woman! Ahhh, words can't describe that night. But I do recall reading about what Sarah was thinking, leastways before the start of her FS. She was mad at herself for coming in 4th in the SP, knowing she could do better, and she wanted to prove that to everybody in the FS, give it her all! And the last thing she saw was the clock, thinking in exactly one hour my life will change. Btw, earlier that day her practice was phenomenal, landing her 3/3s with ease, the commentators even remarking about it, and also her last practice with the final 6 was just as wonderful! Finally, her smile and ease when they called her name was the most relaxed and beautific I've ever seen from a skater, Scott Hamilton even commentating on it. You just knew she going to do good.
^)
- Joined
- May 15, 2009
And then the simplicity & beauty of the spread eagle-into 1A-into spread eagle.
Oops, and how could I forget Sarah Hughes magical skate at the 2002 Olympics, which remains my all-time favorite FS of anybody, man or woman! .
Nadine, if you watch Peggy's '68 Natls LP you will see the move was spread eagle into a 2A and back into a spread eagle.
She missed the 2A and did a single axel in Gregnoble - but still it is a lovely sequence.
I remember thinking Sarah was pretty good in SLC but the whole evening was a downer for me because Michelle did not skate her best. I knew as soon as she finished she had let the Gold medal slip away. Actually I was sure Irina would win and when Sarah was announced as the winner I was surprised.
I look back at Sarah now years later and see what you were talking about when I watch her LP on YouTube.
For a 16 year old kid skating on home ice she was terrific. And I think she deserved to win that night.
Here is a clip with the reactions and scoring.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWOCRvlN8VI&feature=related
Thanks for the clip of Peggy's 1968 Nationals LP. I still prefer her Olympic Program better, even though IIRC she does not, lol. Seriously, the moment, the magic, the skater all flowed. I honestly didn't notice any mistakes whatsoever. I loved the performance! *thumbs up*
Btw, Peggy has always been one of Sarah Hughes's idols. I recall Sarah even slept in the t-shirt Peggy gave her. And of course both Peggy & Sarah's mom are survivors of cancer. I also think Peggy was Sarah's mentor? Just as Dorothy was Rachael's?
I just know that to me personally Sarah represents two generations ~ Peggy & Dorothy ~ she's like a blend of both of them. In fact one of my all-time favorite quotes about Sarah comes from long-time figure skating commentator, Jim McKay, whom said this about her at the 2002 Olympics:
"As I sat watching with my wife ~ Margaret ~ in the arena, I sensed with the others in the crowd early in her program that this was something special. The small figure on the ice reminded me of Tinkerbell; she was half human, half mythical. She was Peggy Fleming at Grenoble in '68, Dorothy Hamill at Innsbruck in '76."
"Harry Potter fans must have felt that alchemy was somehow involved. The girl in the lavender dress was moving it seemed without effort. She was flawless, she was brilliant."
I still prefer her Olympic Program better, even though IIRC she does not, lol. Seriously, the moment, the magic, the skater all flowed. I honestly didn't notice any mistakes whatsoever. I loved the performance! *thumbs up*Btw, Peggy has always been one of Sarah Hughes's idols. I recall Sarah even slept in the t-shirt Peggy gave her.
And of course both Peggy & Sarah's mom are survivors of cancer. I also think Peggy was Sarah's mentor? Just as Dorothy was Rachael's?I just know that to me personally Sarah represents two generations ~ Peggy & Dorothy ~ she's like a blend of both of them. In fact one of my all-time favorite quotes about Sarah comes from long-time figure skating commentator, Jim McKay, whom said this about her at the 2002 Olympics:
"As I sat watching with my wife ~ Margaret ~ in the arena, I sensed with the others in the crowd early in her program that this was something special. The small figure on the ice reminded me of Tinkerbell; she was half human, half mythical. She was Peggy Fleming at Grenoble in '68, Dorothy Hamill at Innsbruck in '76."
"Harry Potter fans must have felt that alchemy was somehow involved. The girl in the lavender dress was moving it seemed without effort. She was flawless, she was brilliant."
- Joined
- May 15, 2009
Here is a nice clip with Peggy talking about Michelle....and a little Button too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxfIMU2CfAw&feature=related
We should have more Evan threads because it is OK to discuss anything we feel like talking about
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxfIMU2CfAw&feature=related
We should have more Evan threads because it is OK to discuss anything we feel like talking about
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2010
We should have more Evan threads because it is OK to discuss anything we feel like talking about
Poor Evan! Don't you think he might be depressed if he comes up here happily seeing there is his praising thread generated so fast, only to find out that it hardly has his name in it for pages?
Evan's thread is knowledgable! Is he competing with Plushenko?
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Here is a nice clip with Peggy talking about Michelle....and a little Button too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxfIMU2CfAw&feature=related
We should have more Evan threads because it is OK to discuss anything we feel like talking about
Oh, that is wonderful. I really miss the Peggy/Button commentary. I love it during that performance when Button says "the face, look at the face, I love it! I love it!" Michelle's power is that you were swept up by the performances... She did it over and over again to Peggy and Button, who simply couldn't contain their gushing. Peggy's best commentary on Michelle came during the '98 nationals when she said that what is special about Michelle is "the way she takes you on her journey of emotions." And then at the end of the FS, some other commentator tries to make a point and Peggy, obviously still swept up, interrupts and says "oh she is just wonderful, she just takes your breath away." Hee!
I can't think of any other female skater who has or has had that power - except Janet Lynn. Others are mezmerizing - Kristi, Lu Chen, Oksana, Sasha, Kim, Mao.... and some are infectuous - Tara, Sarah, Mirai, Akiko ... but that feeling of being taken on a journey of emotions - only Michelle did that to me.
How on Earth DID all this stem from Evan... I can't remember. Oh well.
One of my favorite things about all these topics is how we go on these diversions. One point leads to another, and pretty soon it seems that we're contemplating all of skating. Nothing wrong with that to me.
Layfan, I like your characterization of all the skaters. I feel so lucky now that we have YouTube and we can go back and look at all of them.
Layfan, I like your characterization of all the skaters. I feel so lucky now that we have YouTube and we can go back and look at all of them.
Thanks for another link, janetfan, and as the midnight hour strikes here in the PNW, I finally got around to watching this one.
It was a nice commentary by Peggy and an insightful one from Michelle, though I thought (& wished) you had posted a program of hers. My favorites of Michelle were first of all, Salome. She never impressed me up until that point. I didn't even recognize her from the little girl the year before. To me that was a landmark program, her signature piece, and everything else was just butter from there on. My second all-time favorite program of Michelle was "Fields of Gold" at the 2002 Olympics; the first time I ever cried watching Michelle. That one I don't forget, she showed her soul, her emotions, not afraid to cry & let it all out (in fact I like this one more than all the others actually). Another favorite was "The Red Violin"; she literally was the instrument, ahhh, I felt like she was part of the actual movie, still gives me shivers. Those three I will remember forever.
I was actually surprised that Michelle didn't win the 1998 Olympics. I still remember my sister sending me the tape that year (I was in the Peace Corps at the time). I thought she had won, and was surprised when Tara did. I had no favorites, though I will forever recall watching Chen Lu's program; everything about it was spellbinding, magical, lyrical, emotional. Lol, I recall breaking down crying when she finished, and afterwards when she bowed and cried. It was so poignant. "Butterfly Lovers" was my favorite program of Lulu's. That and another one I recall, where she was dressed in red and I think skated to "The Last Emperor". To me they define her, a proud nod to her beautiful heritage. Funny, I never noticed Lulu before. Like Michelle, she had a total transformation. I would say Lulu's was definitely after 1994, and before 1998. Whatever happened was pure magic.
Btw, I've been wondering what Zhenya felt when he skated his FS at the 2010 Olympics? For some reason I bet he felt like Sonja Henie at her last one (she skated last too coincidentally) ~ she led in points, the ice was not too good, and she had to be careful. I'm also wondering if Michelle felt like this as well at the 2002 Olympics, as she too led after the SP. And Brian Orser as well?
To bring this back on topic, I have to say once again that I really enjoyed Evan Lysacek's performance at the 2009 GPF. I recall how proud I was of ALL three of the American men, but in particular Jeremy Abbott & Evan Lysacek. To me they were head & shoulders above everyone else there ~ like male ballerinas on ice! And, lol, I recall thinking Zhenya had to be careful of Evan, as well as Jeremy (and not to forget Daisuke Takahashi). Being there at the Olympics and seeing Evan skate, he was phenomenal ~ with his long limbs & height he stood out, and covered the ice quickly with those very same limbs, he landed everything, and the crowd went wild, and deservedly so. His music & choreography I felt were better than Evgeni. I so wish Evgeni would have used Nijinski again, or spent the time to really formulate a program that would let the crowd in, be part of it, familiar. I hope next time he comes back sooner and gets a phenomal program like Evan's. Still, Zhenya was magical that night as well ~ I'll never forget seeing those jaw-dropping jumps right in front of me that night ~ ahhh, God is good, God is good!!!!
