Ladies - Short Program

[evangeline]

Okay, am I biased or...was Maé robbed??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVOO67fxrsI&translated=1

She deserved higher PCS, IMO. And technically, that 3lutz-2toe looked really good to me, plus her 3 loop and 2 axel...Don't tell me giving her below 20 on components for that performance is fair.

Maé WUZ ROBBED!!!

It is arguable that Maé's PCS could have been higher, but her TES is somewhat understandable. She had NO steps preceding her 3Lo (remember, a triple jump immediately preceded by connecting steps is a SP requirement), thus incurring a mandatory deduction, and her footwork could definitely use some improvement in terms of speed and coverage.

Maé definitely shows promise, however...maybe France will finally have another top-flight ladies' skater again. But I wonder why she didn't have steps into her 3Lo? Shouldn't someone (her coach, for one) have noticed that immediately?

 

[Poodlepal]

I didn't see the skaters before Mrs. Van Der Perren, (and I only saw the last couple of seconds of her) but of those I saw, this is the order and my comments.
6th place--Elene. What a shame! Johnny W. had her pegged to win the next Olympics, but it looks like she had a growth spurt or something. She's not what she once was.

-----A big gap---------
5th place--Caroline. Under 6.0 she'd be higher, since she was pretty clean. But she is slow and boring, and also suffering from a growth spurt.

4th place--Rachael. The judges don't like her, it's obvious. Her and Mirai's skating seems to be scrutinized more than anyone else's, it's like they have to find some points to take off from those two. And if I sound "biased towards Americans"--well, I am and I don't care! (LOL) Still, she did not deserve top marks, she messed up a jump.

3rd--Carolina. I'd put her, Caroline and Rachael at about the same level pointswise. Carolina might be slightly better than the other two, but not by much.
------------A medium gap-----------------
2nd--Kanako. Not perfect, but so cute and perky.
-----------A small gap------------------------
1st--Joshi. She was robbed. She was clean, relatively fast, did the harder jumps and was a delight to watch. But of course, she's not famous yet.

The judging--F. No way should Carolina, a girl who did neither a triple/triple or a harder triple, be way ahead of everyone else. It's ridiculous. The version of the COP they're using this year is a head-scratcher. If they like someone, they can just add GofE onto a simple jump and make it equal to a harder jump? So why should anyone do a triple/triple or a lutz? We've already seen quads sort of fade under last year's COP, now it's time to lose some of those difficult female jumps as well.

Scott said something interesting. He said that although Kanako lost some points on her axel, she could make it up with her smile. Oh yeah? Smiling counts as skating now? I know Scott can't always be taken seriously (and he made another point about choreography which I won't quibble with) but I think he was right. From what I've seen, you can mess up your jumps but it's OK if you're fast, if you're tall and skinny, if you have nice teeth (apparently) and if you can propel yourself across the rink without using your leg muscles or bending your knee.

Carolina seems like a lovely person, but I'm sick of her getting overmarked. If Patrick Chan is straight, he should marry her. Their children will be unstoppable

 

[krenseby]

I love the arm movements and transitions and the footwork of Joshi! Beautiful! So much grace for a big girl

Kanako was lovely, incredible energy, musicality and polish!

I also found Joshi's program absolutely delightful. How do you anticipate that she will do in the LP? (I don't really remember paying attention to her or the scores that she got in previous competitions.)

She must realize that the reaction won't be immediate and the results won't be instant. So I give her credit for trying and hanging in there.

Just for clarification, what do you mean by "reaction" in that sentence? The first thought that comes to mind is the reaction of the judges to her skating, but that's just a guess.

 

[lavender]

Can't believe anyone that Johnny pegs to be the best or win an Olympics these days.

4th place--Rachael. The judges don't like her, it's obvious. Her and Mirai's skating seems to be scrutinized more than anyone else's, it's like they have to find some points to take off from those two. And if I sound "biased towards Americans"--well, I am and I don't care! (LOL) Still, she did not deserve top marks, she messed up a jump.

Yes the judges aren't into Rachel as are a lot of people but the judges clearly like Mirai if she skates clean and she's going to have to start doing that more often soon to get the benefit of the doubt.

 

[MrScroogeMcDuck]

Few thoughts...

I'm not a Flatt fan, at all, but other than the mistake on the jump combination, I thought she did a great job today.

Maybe it was just the way she had her hair or the fact that she was (understandably) a little mad after Gedevanishvili's disappointing performance, but Robin Wagner did not look good.

Carolina was overscored, IMO.

 

[gold12345]

I appreciate Rachael really trying to sell her program. She obviously has her issues, but she really does try out there. She puts a lot of personality into her footwork.

I still can't get over how improved Caroline's 3F is. It gives hope to every skater out there who believes it's impossible to fix very bad habits. You CAN fix technique with some time and patience! Her 3Lo was pretty shaky today, so she's capable of doing better there.

I actually like some of Kostner's SP, and I've never cared for her before. Some of the choreography goes quite well the music. Still, with her weak jump content, I really hope someone can beat her.

 

[R.D.]

Just for clarification, what do you mean by "reaction" in that sentence? The first thought that comes to mind is the reaction of the judges to her skating, but that's just a guess.

You can think of it like that if you wish, yes.

 

[krenseby]

I appreciate Rachael really trying to sell her program. She obviously has her issues, but she really does try out there. She puts a lot of personality into her footwork.

I also thought Rachael's program had a lot of personality and I didn't think she was at all boring. But do the judges see it that way? BTW, Is Lori Nichol helping her out with her choreography and her performance skills in general?

 

[Tanja90]

So....who should have been first in your opinion?
rachel flatt? she doubled the lutz and the toeloop was underrotated...so one required element's gone.
Kanako murakami? single axel...another required element
joshi skated really well and enjoyed her but the quality she has is way beyond carolina..same for mae
every top skater but carolina made costly misktakes...so the position are out of question IMO.
Due to her injury carolina skated with what she has in this moment in her hand...you may say you don't like or whatever but she did a great job and fully deserved her scores. jumps spins and steps were at the highest level (she received level 4 for her steps) and the program is well constructed! I personally thing is the best short program of ladies this season!
Another program I liked is kanako's! she is so fresh and really enjoyable! pity about the axel but I'm glad that the judges's given higher program components than NHK! she fully deserved them!
Rachel flatt has a really nice program! she is better than last year in terms of interpretation! A pity that she was nervous but good girl to try to save the double lutz! when she landed it she was really slow but she fought and tried the triple toeloop! good girl!!

 

[herios]

Completely agree - I alluled to that in my original posted, which is quoted in reply #114.

Don`t bet on the wunderkids just yet. The current US senior ladies were snatching all the medals in junior worlds a few years back and look at them right now, what they do in seniors. You cannot forecast in ladies anything for sure.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Caroline Zhang upped her speed level this season, but in past seasons she was branded a slow skater. That branding has stuck with her, unfortunately. I didn't notice an exaggerated mule kick this season either, so I give the kid a break in comments.

 

[demarinis5]

Caroline Zhang upped her speed level this season, but in past seasons she was branded a slow skater. That branding has stuck with her, unfortunately. I didn't notice an exaggerated mule kick this season either, so I give the kid a break in comments.

You have a kind heart Joe.

 

[npavel]

I don't understand all these comments. Carolina skated clean and with so much more speed an everyone else. All of her elements were well executed. Why can't you just enjoy a god skate? You really think a shaky difficult tripple jump is so much more worth than another clean tripple? There are always been skaters who prefer one jump to another. I never get this difference. Some skaters can do great lutz but no loop. Is that so much better?
I think a clean program deserve positive GOE. Shaky elements deserve negative GOE.
The great footwork Carolina put on the ice yesterday deserved all that score. How many people do such footwork? And why should it not be revardet as much as a jump? There are more skaters who can jump tripples than skaters who can do great footwork!!!!
Carolina deserved to win by a mile. Yoshi did a great job, but has not the skating skills of Carolina. Carolina did a 3T, 2T, 3Loop and Yoshi a 3T, 2T, 3Luz. Yoshi got more points on the Luz an Caro on the Loop, but the step sequence of Carolina got more points than the one of Yoshi. I think the standings are right.

 

[Poodlepal]

So....who should have been first in your opinion?
rachel flatt? she doubled the lutz and the toeloop was underrotated...so one required element's gone.
every top skater but carolina made costly misktakes...so the position are out of question IMO.
Due to her injury carolina skated with what she has in this moment in her hand...you may say you don't like or whatever but she did a great job and fully deserved her scores. jumps spins and steps were at the highest level (she received level 4 for her steps) and the program is well constructed! I personally thing is the best short program of ladies this season!

Carolina also didn't skate clean. She was supposed to do a triple tl/triple tl, the same one that Kanako did. She wound up doing a triple tl/double tl, which I believe is the easiest jump combo, and would be the first one up and coming skaters would try. I know Carolina is hurt, but I don't remember judges taking that into consideration when judging before, for anyone else.

If Carolina can win (by a large margin) doing a combo that is the easiest one, I have to ask one serious question: why should the other ladies knock themselves out trying the harder ones? Seriously. Why should Mao Asada risk injury doing the triple axel if she doesn't have to? Why should Rachael Flatt try a triple lutz/triple loop? Why should Caroline try to correct some poor technique on the hardest jumps? Just do the easiest jumps,then spend all your time learning to skate really fast, work on your footwork and get a really good choreographer, and voila!

This isn't the same as the quad vs. no quad debate (like in the Olympics) because at least the non-quadders did the second hardest jump (axel) and at least only half of the good men can do a quad consistently. Carolina didn't (couldn't due to injury) do jumps that everyone else did.

BTW-if she landed the triple/triple, I would have no complaint. If she didn't do a t/t, but was in first with say a 55.5, and Joshi had a 55.4 and Kanako had a 55.2 or something like that, I wouldn't complain. But a six point lead? That's what got me.

 

[MikiAndoFan#1]

Carolina also didn't skate clean. She was supposed to do a triple tl/triple tl, the same one that Kanako did. She wound up doing a triple tl/double tl, which I believe is the easiest jump combo, and would be the first one up and coming skaters would try. I know Carolina is hurt, but I don't remember judges taking that into consideration when judging before, for anyone else.

How do you know Carolina was planning a 3T+3T combination?

 

[npavel]

Carolina skated clean because here jumps were easy and beautiful and there is no request to do 3-3. Yes, she said she had in mind to to 3-3, but... the program didn't appear to luck something.
The step sequence at Torino gave her 6 points. No idea how much she got yesterday, but it makes up for the difference. She had higher TES and higher PCS than every one else and those who have seen her live can say she skates faster than everyone else. It's much more difficult to skate a program with her speed and that is rewarded

 

[Tanja90]

Carolina also didn't skate clean. She was supposed to do a triple tl/triple tl, the same one that Kanako did. She wound up doing a triple tl/double tl, which I believe is the easiest jump combo, and would be the first one up and coming skaters would try. I know Carolina is hurt, but I don't remember judges taking that into consideration when judging before, for anyone else.

yes...carolina planned a 3-3 and did a 3-2 BUT she didn't miss a required element...if she would have done a 2-2 that would have been another story...so she skated clean! her jumps were solid and good..and I agree with what npavel said! figure skating is not only jumps! there are also steps spins good quality skating interpretation ecc! yes, jumps are important but they are 3 elements out of seven. people seems to forget that..or at least, they forget when they want it. In this competition she was in a class of their own!
about the skaters you mentioned:
I love mao and I love the fact that she was and is trying to put the 3a in competition but she kind of need it...her jumping technic has been falling apart in last two years...she han no lutz she doesn't always do salchow and last time she did a 3-3 was at 2008 worlds if I'm not wrong.
Rachel needs big guns...the quality of the other elements are high but not as high as she needs to stay in a world podium
Zhang...c'mon..she HAS to do something with her jumps!!! I'm sorry because I loved her since I saw her ave maria program, but the lutz is awful when she does the axel it seems that she is in slow motion and the loop is not better! she did a really good job by fixing the flip but work is not finished yet.

 

[Tanja90]

How do you know Carolina was planning a 3T+3T combination?

She said it during the press conference I think...It's written in the ISU page!

 

[MikiAndoFan#1]

She said it during the press conference I think...It's written in the ISU page!

Thank you!

 

[Tanja90]

Thank you!

You're welcome!!