The Senior "B" Competitions

[Mathman]

Watch Out For Flying Pucks.

Thanks to Mr. Ski for fixing it. right?

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Just defending the Singles non first tier skaters who Patrick Chan is among others. It's a good competition for non first tier skaters to get their feet wet early in the season and be among those non American skaters who happen to train there. I think it beats traveling to Europe to go against the French boys only.

I'm for making Liberty a "B" event, and the one in Detroit also which has la creme de la creme of Ice couples. Not sure about MidAtlantics which has a good size rink and always a few top skaters. The Men will have to put up with the catcalls from the hockey players.

 

[dorispulaski]

Thanks to Mr. Ski for fixing it. right?

Yes, we always bring a roll of colored tape to 'fix' the sign so that the vids aren't embarassing these days. Of course, the kids operate on the "P" every year.

And Joe, don't forget Lake Placid International Dance competition! either.

 

[Wattle]

Australian Couple O'Brien/Merriman attended Ondrej Nepela Memorial 2010 and found the experience somewhat bewildering and will not be attending another "B" competition in Europe. They are yet to recieve a reasonable explanation on the technical calls- their video has been reviewed by ISU level Technical people here and they could not explain the unmarked element as well as other anomalies. 2 couples from other countries who were also left head scratching.

The Technical panel and judges do not need ISU championship accreditation and there is no ISU review of the judging of these competitions. Within Europe it is not difficult to put tgether panels which meets the criteria for being from 3 different countries when the European countries are not unlike states in US and provences in Canada. Their is little credibility where "neighbours" are engaged on the panels.

I'm sure the Aussies O/M (or Team DnG) would be more then happy to do a B,C or even D comp in North America if it meant the judging was at least a little reasonable.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Yes, we always bring a roll of colored tape to 'fix' the sign so that the vids aren't embarassing these days. Of course, the kids operate on the "P" every year.

And Joe, don't forget Lake Placid International Dance competition! either.

I have skiid at Whiteface Mountain for many many years, and could not remember the name Lake Placid where I stayed many many years. I was trying to add another venue but could only remember the Mountain. It's an age thing. Yes, a good dance comp at the Lake.

I wonder why "B" venues have never been overlooked by the USFS.

 

[gkelly]

With all the international skaters training in the U.S., I think it would not be impossible to attract a satisfactory field, if any of the U.S. venues wanted to go that route.

I'm sure that attracting a satisfactory field would not be a significant problem.

The problem is what Doris said on this thread and Sylvia on the other. The clubs that host these events make money off them. If they were connected with the ISU, they would be required to incur greater expenses and to share their profits.

It's not just a question of expenses and profit, although those certainly would be considerations. It's the whole purpose and structure of the event.

The existing club competitions serve many purposes for skaters at all levels -- the purposes they serve for international-level senior skaters are only the tip of the iceberg. The Lake Placid Ice Dance Competition, for example, has a long history going back for decades of serving the US ice dance community as a whole.

We don't want to take all those other purposes away from their constituencies, and the timing of mid-July to mid-August is a bit too early for the senior international season anyway.

But we can use them as examples of venues that have the facilities to host a senior B event and as evidence that there are enough non-US skaters who already train in North America or would be willing to make the trip.

 

[PolymerBob]

Many of the American and Canadian summer events have an international flavor to them. They usually attract competitors from several countries. The ISU wouldn't have to work to make them international; they already are.

 

[gkelly]

Many of the American and Canadian summer events have an international flavor to them. They usually attract competitors from several countries. The ISU wouldn't have to work to make them international; they already are.

The question is, what characteristics would the competitions have to have in order to qualify as official international competitions that count for skaters to earn official minimum scores that qualify them to skate at ISU senior championships? And that might also count toward ISU world standings?
According to Mathman's post #2 in this thread,

In order to qualify for this designation the event must have a total of at least 8 ladies, 8 men, 6 dance couples and 5 pairs. Each discipline must have skaters from at least four different countries (three in pairs), I don’t see any requirements for the judges, but the three people on the tech panel must be from three different counties.

So the minimum changes that would need to be made would be making sure that the tech panels for the senior events include members from three different countries.

Then, for any events that have enough entries and enough different countries represented, that event would meet the requirements mentioned above.

But other considerations might arise.

Do the judges need to have international judging appointments recognized by the ISU, even if there are no restrictions on which countries they represent? That would also affect the way panels could be staffed at these events. Remember, these events as they currently exist are club competitions, albeit prestigious ones, and many of the judges on the panels are not international or even national judges.

I'm sure if the event were designated as an official international, it would become even more popular with skaters and there would be no trouble getting enough entries. If anything, the problem might be too many entries.

A) Is there a maximum number of competitors from the host country (or any other single country)?
B) Do the skaters need to be assigned to the competition by their federations?
or C) Is anyone with the appropriate test credentials free to enter the competition, like any other club competition, just by filling out an application form and paying an entry fee?

If A and B, then the majority of skaters who currently participate in these events would no longer be able to participate. Turning an existing event into an international would take away an opportunity that is valuable to many skaters and to the clubs that host the competitions.

If C, then any US skater who has passed the necessary tests (junior tests, since most of these club competitions allow skaters to "skate up" one level), and any foreign skater who has passed the US tests or otherwise qualifies to enter a US competition at senior level can buy her way into an international. Ditto for Canadian events. In that case, expect the ladies' field to be unmanageably large and to include skaters who don't have the skills to qualify for US or Canadian Nationals, much less to do well enough there to get international assignments.

The events could not continue to exist in their current form and also serve the senior B function. Something would have to change.

Since the current events already serve valuable purposes that should not be thrown out, I think it would make more sense to add a new event, not to take over an existing event and throw out some of its current valuable functions.