Senior Men's LP (starts at 4pm EST)

[ImaginaryPogue]

No, if a jump is not repeated as a combo, so long as it doesn't violate the various rules of being an extra element, it will be credited as a SEQUENCE and receive 20% less in base value for the element, which is not a small penalty. Even if Bradley fall on that jump, he would still get credit for the Quad attempt no matter what.

Thanks.

 

[Mathman]

Ryan Bradley tacked on a double toe to his second quad to ensure that he got credit for a combo.

He didn't - the protocols list it as a 4T+Seq.

If so, that double toe should be considered another jumping pass, right?

No, if a jump is not repeated as a combo, so long as it doesn't violate the various rules of being an extra element, it will be credited as a SEQUENCE and receive 20% less in base value for the element, which is not a small penalty. Even if Bradley fall on that jump, he would still get credit for the Quad attempt no matter what.

That still doesn't answer Imaginary Pogue's question, though. It is not about the second quad, it's about the double toe loop that followed the second quad. If that was not part of a sequence or combo, why didn't it count as a jumping pass?

I believe they must have changed the rules about this situation somewhere along the line. I can't seem to find it in the ISU communications at the moment, though.

Anyway, where Ryan was gifted was no UR call on his first quad, in my opinion.

Dornbush and Miner were both great and fully deserve to go to worlds on the basis of their performances and placements. Jeremy came in fourth. I'm sorry about that, but that's what happened.

 

[wallylutz]

As crushed as I am for Jeremy, I wholeheartedly agree with you. The U.S. set a precedent in 2009 when they didn't send Johnny despite Johnny's cries that he deserved it. And Jeremy doesn't even half the international record that Johnny did.

I am not sure the two situations are comparable here and honestly, I feel they will and should include Jeremy Abbott on the World Team. Given that only the U.S. Champion is guaranteed a spot, it's entirely within their rights to do so.

 

[skfan]

I think Dornbush, Abbott & Bradley should be the world team. Tough on Miner, yes, but the point difference between him & Jeremy was only .16 points, and I don't think that it should invalidate the entire international fall season. At his worst, Abbott can be top 10 in the world; at his best, it's questionable for Miner. Jeremy's a headcase, but he will no doubt get the PCS. Bradley won't and shouldn't. I think Dornbush will do well if he skates like he did in here and at the JGPF. Miner can go to 4CC.

Aside from the last three men, what a great afternoon of skating it was. Dornbush was my favorite - loved him at the JGPF, love him even more now. This is a great program for him, and he really sold it. Plus those jumps! I also really enjoyed Mahbanoozadeh, Messing & Cassar. I can't wait to see Brown's FS - seems like he had a great one and I normally love his skating.

Sending both Miner and Abbott to 4CC gives Abbott a chance to get the a(nother) pre-Worlds test and will feel more 'fair' to Miner, IMO. Likely Abbott will beat him by 10 points there. Mainly I suggest it because it will feel more fair to Miner than just being summarily told, Abbott's the champion with all the credits so you gotta beat him by at least THIS much.

I don't have a horse in this race, I like both long programs, Miner's and Abbott's, so maybe I'm just trying to get more opportunities to view them

 

[wallylutz]

in what way does he make KVDP look like Chan? Kevin's cute, but dull... (I do like watching him skate when his jumps are on though). Oh, well, wait... I think Chan is dull too, so yeah next to Ryan everyone's dull!

That's kind of obvious, don't you think? One only need to look at your avatar.

 

[gold12345]

I honestly don't understand why Miner would ever feel like not being named to the World team would be "unfair". He has no international credentials. He's never proven himself in any sort of Intl Sr competition. A country's job is to send its skaters to Worlds that have the potential to bring in the best results. 9 times out of 10, Abbott is going to crush Miner in an Intl competition right now. And most importantly, Abbott lost to Miner by only .19, which is nearly a tie.

 

[Mathman]

I feel they will and should include Jeremy Abbott on the World Team.

Absolutely not. What is it about fourth place that people don't seem to get?

I honestly don't understand why Miner would ever feel like not being named to the World team would be "unfair". He has no international credentials. He's never proven himself in any sort of Intl Sr competition. A country's job is to send its skaters to Worlds that have the potential to bring in the best results. 9 times out of 10, Abbott is going to crush Miner in an Intl competition right now.

The question is not who can crush whom so many hypothertical times out of how many. It is not about any kind of "credentials."

It's about who earned the spot this afternoon.

 

[colleen o'neill]

Very sorry for Jeremy and Adam . Jeremy's FS is fabulous and so well suited to him. It's a shame he couldn't deliver here. His SP was skated the best we've seen it .The hand movements may have been trimmed down, but they have certainly been made more crisp and less soft...which makes a big difference. He still doesn't bring that inner machismo though ( it's more than just facial expression ), and I still think the program cries out for a very basic, even austere costume to show it to best advantage.
I still haven't seen Adam's SP..I'm really sorry that it didn't go well. I find his FP almost a spiritual experience.. what with his gorgeous skating, exquisite choreo and..Rachmaninoff. Just gets me where I live. I was so hoping to see it clean..*sigh*

Armin put up such a great fight , makes me regret his SP troubles ,too.

But... Dornbush and Miner just had me cheering for them , and Ryan ! Does it get any sweeter after his woes last year ?

What an exciting competition ! I had a great afternoon.

 

[Layfan]

I am not sure the two situations are comparable here and honestly, I feel they will and should include Jeremy Abbott on the World Team. Given that only the U.S. Champion is guaranteed a spot, it's entirely within their rights to do so.

The only difference is that in 2009 there were two world class skaters on the team - Jeremy and Evan. This year there are none. But that is not Ross Milner's fault.

Jeremy's lucky that Evan won the gold medal that year or he might have been blamed for losing two the two spots. Let's face it: Jeremy doesn't have the international track record to make a case for himself. He hasn't had a great international season in two years.

I know it's the U.S. has a right to send Jeremy - and they might - but I just kinda doubt it.

I mean, I do agree that the U.S. will not be sending a tough team to worlds. The Japanese and Patrick will not be worried. But then again, if Jeremy goes, they might not be worried either, given his awful skate tonight. And even his SP wasn't amazing.

 

[Violet Bliss]

It's hard to characterize the American Men's field and the final placements. Nobody had a consistency through two programs. Here are the results of the competition (SP + LP --> Final placement):

1 + 4 --> 1
7 + 1 --> 2
6 + 2 --> 3
2 + 6 --> 4
9 + 3 --> 5
8 + 5 --> 6
3 + 9 --> 7
and so on. The only exception is 14 + 14 --> 14

Every one in the top half moved at least 3 places between programs. Can this be called a deep field? Is there a reliable competitor? Who will really be the best one on another day?

Not very pretty. Problematic in fact for making any pick.

 

[ivy]

It's about who earned the spot this afternoon.

I do agree with this - though in the future I would love to see 4CC as part of the official selection process

 

[jaylee]

The team is up: Men on the U.S. World Team are @RyanSBradley, Richard Dornbush, @rossminer...alternates are @jeremyabbottpcf, @Adaripp, @Armin_hammer

http://twitter.com/#!/USFigureSkating/status/31870880669769729

 

[Layfan]

It's hard to characterize the American Men's field and the final placements. Nobody had a consistency through two programs. Here are the results of the competition (SP + LP --> Final placement):

1 + 4 --> 1
7 + 1 --> 2
6 + 2 --> 3
2 + 6 --> 4
9 + 3 --> 5
8 + 5 --> 6
3 + 9 --> 7
and so on. The only exception is 14 + 14 --> 14

Every one moved at least 3 places between programs. Can this be called a deep field? Is there a reliable competitor? Who will really be the best ones on another day?

Not very pretty. Problematic in fact for making any pick.

Nope. It can't be called a deep field. Sigh. At least it's not an Olympic year.

Kinda makes you miss Evan and Johnny, no? At least they were good competitors.

I love Jeremy's skating but he talks and thinks too much.
Every year we hear endless justifications from him about why he's a totally different skater and why he'll be different this year.
This year it was all about how he wasn't peaking too soon and and how he was super comfortable knowing he was the number one man and wah.
He overthinks the whole thing instead of just keeping it simple and telling himself that he's a good skater and that's all the there is to it.

Sigh. depressed for him. But I'm glad he's already telling himself to regroup for next year.

 

[emma]

I too agree with Mathman. Jeremy is in fourth, period. I am so very sad about this and it was so very close (4th and 3rd). So happy for Miner, though. My only question is - and I mean this sincerely as a question - is Miner age eligible for junior worlds and is there a precedent to send skaters to the latter in this sort of context (not advocating, just asking)?

 

[gold12345]

It's about who earned the spot this afternoon.

I'll just never like it. It's too easy for skaters to get lucky one day, and it's too easy for the top skaters to get weighed down by the pressure one day. Essentially, we are picking our World teams based largely on luck. Sad, I think.

 

[Mathman]

It's hard to characterize the American Men's field and the final placements. Nobody had a consistency through two programs. Here are the results of the competition (SP + LP --> Final placement):

1 + 4 --> 1
7 + 1 --> 2
6 + 2 --> 3
2 + 6 --> 4
9 + 3 --> 5
8 + 5 --> 6
3 + 9 --> 7
and so on. The only exception is 14 + 14 --> 14

Every one in the top half moved at least 3 places between programs. Can this be called a deep field? Is there a reliable competitor? Who will really be the best ones on another day?

Not very pretty. Problematic in fact for making any pick.

That would be interesting under 6.0 factored placement judging. Dornbush would have won on the tie-breaker, otherwise places 1 through 6 stay the same.

As for who will be the best on another day, we will have to wait and see. :yes:

 

[merrywidow]

I'm for sending Dornbush & Miner to World's for the experience. It's not like Abbott & Bradley are going to retain our 3 spots for men at World's anyway.

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

The team is up: Men on the U.S. World Team are @RyanSBradley, Richard Dornbush, @rossminer...alternates are @jeremyabbottpcf, @Adaripp, @Armin_hammer

http://twitter.com/#!/USFigureSkating/status/31870880669769729

Thanks. Do we know who's doing juniors yet?

 

[#1Kerryfan]

I really don't know what to think - Ross was definitely better than Jeremy today, but Jeremy (and Adam) have a better chance at getting the US extra spots than Ross (and Richard)........ glad I'm not on the committee that would be a stressful position......

Will everyone PLEASE stop bashing Ryan? This is his moment. You may not like him, but it took him 11 years to get here!

 

[wallylutz]

That still doesn't answer Imaginary Pogue's question, though. It is not about the second quad, it's about the double toe loop that followed the second quad. If that was not part of a sequence or combo, why didn't it count as a jumping pass?

I believe they must have changed the rules about this situation somewhere along the line. I can't seem to find it in the ISU communications at the moment, though.

Please refer to page 15 of the Technical Panel handbook for Single Skating linked here: http://www.isu.org/vsite/vnavsite/page/directory/0,10853,4844-185235-202457-nav-list,00.html

I quote: "Step out or touch down with free foot with weight transfer after first jump plus another jump"

If a skater steps out on the first jump and immediately after that executes another jump, the element does not remain a jump combination and will be called as follows: Short Program: “First Jump + Combo”; the continuation will be ignored by the Technical Panel.
Free Skating: “First Jump + Sequence” (or “First Jump + Second Jump + Sequence” if the definition of a sequence is still fulfilled). The same applies to a jump combination consisting of 3 jumps.

So the correct decision in this case is to simply ignore the 2nd jump performed and the Panel made the right call.

Hope this answers your and IP's question.