Off-Ice Training: General Training & Is Ballet Worth It At My Skill Level?

[cheddar]

Good Morning~ I'm hoping on hearing everyone's personal opinion and experience with off-ice training as I searched through the forum but wasn't able to find enough answers. If there is a topic similar to this already posted, I apologize in advance.

I apologize in advance for this super lengthy post, feel free to skip to TL;DR!

I'm unsure of my exact level as my coach doesn't follow any official program and sometimes skips certain skills. I've taken a look at these 2 pages Basic Skills PDF// Free Skate PDF and based on this, I would say I'm at Basic 6 (apart from a few skills my coach skipped such as bunny hop, side toe hop, all stops listed in the PDF apart from T-stop and half snow-plow which I know how to do). I have been taught the Waltz jump however none of the other skills listed in the Free Skate levels have been covered yet. I prefer to master or at the very least be able to confidently skate the skills I have learned before moving onto the next skill.

I will list all skills I've learned, if irrelevant feel free to skip. I've slightly edited this list from this great page I found online

Spoiler: Read

Other Skills
Two foot squat
Shoot-the-duck/Teapot
One foot/glide
Forward Lunge
Backwards skating
Forward inside/outside edges (1 foot)
Backward outside edges

Spins
Upright two foot spin (pivot entry)
Upright one foot spin (pivot entry)

Footwork
Lemons/Swizzle/half pumps
Chasses (slides, forwards+backwards)
Two foot 3 turns
Forwards 3 turns
Cross-rolls
Crossovers (forwards/backwards)
Slalom (two footed)
Power pulls (1 footed)

Stops
Snowplough (half/one footed or full/two footed)
T stop (left or right)
Hockey stop (left or right)
One footed (in/outside edge, left or right foot)

Jumps
Two foot (forwards and backwards)
One foot (forwards and backwards)
Waltz jump
Toe pick jumping on the spot

Spirals
Arabesque (forwards)


I currently particularly struggle with:
Spins
Forward/backward power pulls
Backward cross-rolls
Backward crosses on outside edges (unsure of the name, looks like crossovers but backwards with outside edges on both feet)
Forward crossovers (with and without lifting foot)
3 turns
Forward/backward chasses
Stops

I currently moderately struggle with:
Forward cross-rolls
Forward lunge

I currently want to improve (can skate at a decent level):
Arabesque
Waltz Jump
Slaloms
Shoot the duck

Or if you prefer a chart (I have too much time haha)

Good	OK	Below Average	Bad
Two foot squat	Arabesque	Forward cross-rolls	Spins
One foot/glide	Waltz Jump	Forward lunge	Forward/backward power pulls
Backwards skating	Slaloms (forward/backward)		Backward cross-rolls
Forward inside/outside edges (1 foot)	Shoot the duck		Backward crosses on outside edges
Lemons/Swizzle/half pumps			Forward crossovers
Two foot 3 turns			3 turns
Backward crossovers (with and without lifting foot)			Forward/backward chasses
Slaloms (two footed)			Stops
One foot and two foot jumps in place			Backward outside edges

My current routine and what facilities I have available to me:
I get very overwhelmed by gym workouts and hate the pressure of having to finish my sets quickly at the gym, but I do have various group classes available at my local gym as well. I can sign up for adult recreational ballet classes 2x per week + 1x stretching per week. I do practice sessions minimum 2-3 times per week for 2-5 hours at a time, lessons 1-2 times every two weeks. Off-ice is minimal, skipping rope 1 foot/2 foot for a few minutes, pistol squats and jogging, no other workouts or stretching at all.

I'm also interested in getting off-ice equipment, such as exercise bands, ankle weights, yoga blocks, balance boards but since I don't workout perhaps I should work without any equipment? I should mention I'm relatively flexible but not nearly enough.

TL;DR
I'm a Basic 6 adult skater who doesn't workout much. I'm wondering if:
1. Are ballet classes over-kill at this stage and am I better off doing generic gym work-outs like strength training and pilates?
2. Should I get any equipment (such as exercise bands, ankle weights, yoga blocks, balance boards) or work with my body weight only?

Any suggestions for workouts would be greatly appreciated! Feel free to share your own experiences as well, I love reading about it!

 

[Query]

Can't answer you. I'm not that good a skater.

But AFAICT, doing ballet requires a lot of working out, and a lot of flexibility - well beyond what most adults can ever hope to attain. At least if the one class I tried was typical. E.g., you have to develop extremely strong arches in your feet, and possibly unusually high arches, so you can support your weight on and jump off of a downwards curved foot, with very little support from shoes.

Introductory level modern dance classes are a little less extreme - e.g., you usually support your weight on upwards curved feet, which is the way most normal people move. (At the upper levels, it requires a lot of working out and flexibility too, and maybe also requires that you learn some falls like push-up falls and percussion back falls that are quite tough on the body.)

OTOH, you might find you really love ballet (and modern dance too). I think it has a lot in common with figure skating.

It is a shame your gym forces you to finish your sets quickly. Is that a gym rule, or the result of a class? Are there other local gyms you could try?

The gyms I have belonged to mostly made strength training their main issue, plus they had a number of aerobic/endurance machines, both of which emphasize specific muscle groups, that might or might not help you with skating. They don't have anything specific to skaters, in terms of equipment or classes. Though some ice rinks host off-ice exercise (and/or dance) classes that are more specific to figure skating.

But I think a good answer to your question depends a lot on your body, your posture, and how much you are willing to train. E.g., back cross rolls require both a good posture, including appropriate knee bends (so do chasses), and a significant degree of opened hip flexibility. I haven't figured out what good spins require - I've tried to get them unsuccessfully for many years, and under many private coaches.

A good private skating coach could maybe give you exercises more specific to your body, and could diagnose what you are having trouble with on ice better than most dance teachers working off ice. (BTW, some coaches teach both skating and off-ice dance.) In most group lesson programs, the teacher has very little time to spend on each student, and many group lesson coaches aren't very good at efficiently using what time they have well.

You might be surprised at how much even a few private skating lessons from a good coach would help, even if you can't afford to take many private lessons.

 

[Kitt]

Ballet will give you something beautiful to do with your hands and arms. You can bet Isabeau Levito has had a lot of ballet. Also, it will improve your extension in the spiral. Of course it helps on balance. Depends on what your goals are.

 

[Query]

There must be good reasons a fair number of ice rinks offer classes in ballet, or rent space to people who teach it.

It's obvious a lot of the same people who enjoy figure skating also enjoy performance and/or social dance. At low levels, it's probably much cheaper, and the equipment may be less problematic. (Though I've heard ballet dancers complain about their pointe shoes.) There are a lot more places and times to do it too.

It might also give you something to do at the rink, to warm up and enjoy doing before between and after ice sessions. If your rink allows that. At least for me, warming up before skating, and stretching after, can be important.

The best way to see if you will enjoy a thing is always to try it.

I was a nerd as a kid but I eventually learned that almost everything that is really fun is physical. And there is often a lot of cross over between different physical activities. Skate. Dance. Hike. Bike. Paddle. Swim. Ski. Yoga. Etc. They can all be fun, and help make you feel more fit, in different ways. (To me, at least, they are all a lot more fun than gyms and the types of exercise you do at gyms.) As long as you don't take them too seriously, and aren't bothered that there will always be people who are better.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Dance, yoga, pilates.

 

[cheddar]

Can't answer you. I'm not that good a skater.

But AFAICT, doing ballet requires a lot of working out, and a lot of flexibility - well beyond what most adults can ever hope to attain. At least if the one class I tried was typical. E.g., you have to develop extremely strong arches in your feet, and possibly unusually high arches, so you can support your weight on and jump off of a downwards curved foot, with very little support from shoes.

Introductory level modern dance classes are a little less extreme - e.g., you usually support your weight on upwards curved feet, which is the way most normal people move. (At the upper levels, it requires a lot of working out and flexibility too, and maybe also requires that you learn some falls like push-up falls and percussion back falls that are quite tough on the body.)

OTOH, you might find you really love ballet (and modern dance too). I think it has a lot in common with figure skating.

It is a shame your gym forces you to finish your sets quickly. Is that a gym rule, or the result of a class? Are there other local gyms you could try?

The gyms I have belonged to mostly made strength training their main issue, plus they had a number of aerobic/endurance machines, both of which emphasize specific muscle groups, that might or might not help you with skating. They don't have anything specific to skaters, in terms of equipment or classes. Though some ice rinks host off-ice exercise (and/or dance) classes that are more specific to figure skating.

But I think a good answer to your question depends a lot on your body, your posture, and how much you are willing to train. E.g., back cross rolls require both a good posture, including appropriate knee bends (so do chasses), and a significant degree of opened hip flexibility. I haven't figured out what good spins require - I've tried to get them unsuccessfully for many years, and under many private coaches.

A good private skating coach could maybe give you exercises more specific to your body, and could diagnose what you are having trouble with on ice better than most dance teachers working off ice. (BTW, some coaches teach both skating and off-ice dance.) In most group lesson programs, the teacher has very little time to spend on each student, and many group lesson coaches aren't very good at efficiently using what time they have well.

You might be surprised at how much even a few private skating lessons from a good coach would help, even if you can't afford to take many private lessons.

Thank you very much for your detailed response and sharing your experience! I appreciate it

 

[cheddar]

Ballet will give you something beautiful to do with your hands and arms. You can bet Isabeau Levito has had a lot of ballet. Also, it will improve your extension in the spiral. Of course it helps on balance. Depends on what your goals are.

Thank you so much!!

 

[cheddar]

Dance, yoga, pilates.

I appreciate your advice, thanks!