I agree that the 1st Quad not being called as UR or even downgraded is debatable. But to me, my main concern is the overly inflated PCS in his case. Part of the reason is in the U.S., PCS has been evaluated very seriously and rigorously and are usually not inflated. I think very few people would be willing to vouch for the kind of PCS Bradley got today, at least not in the context of a rigorous competitive setting in relation to what other skaters received. It felt like Florent Amodio has just won the U.S. Championship.
Senior Men's LP (starts at 4pm EST)
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I agree that the 1st Quad not being called as UR or even downgraded is debatable. But to me, my main concern is the overly inflated PCS in his case. Part of the reason is in the U.S., PCS has been evaluated very seriously and rigorously and are usually not inflated. I think very few people would be willing to vouch for the kind of PCS Bradley got today, at least not in the context of a rigorous competitive setting in relation to what other skaters received. It felt like Florent Amodio has just won the U.S. Championship.
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LOL @ Mathman's assertion re: Casablanca, which is even funnier when you remember that the script WAS written on the fly.
And aren't the rules written such that the federation CAN take other events into the account, anyway?
And aren't the rules written such that the federation CAN take other events into the account, anyway?
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- Aug 18, 2010
Even the NBC commentator Sandra Bezic has pointed out the UR right after his first quad.
Thank you!!
Not everyone's bashing Ryan, it's actually only a minority, but the over all negativity is a bit much. The guy's had one of the worst years of his skating life and has come back to win the National Title.
Plus, the skating in the Men is the US looked pretty darned great to me. You would have thought the entire competition had splatted from reading some of the postings today. Good Grief...Ryan's finally gotten his dream of a National Title and you've got to two other guys w/amazing potiential going to Worlds for the first time and will be able to bank that experience for the future.
I get the fuss about the spots, but guess what? This is going to be the 2011 Worlds. Not 2013 when I would understand some of the stuff I've seen since the FS this afternoon.
I'm thrilled about Ryan and more than happy to celebrate. Am also looking forward to seeing what those two "youngin's" put out there in Tokyo. W/nothing to lose, they just go out and possibly surprise a lot of people.
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- Jun 21, 2003
I am on your side in this debate, but I do think that Gold12345 is saying "Abbott is a much better bet for worlds than Miner; we should change the rules so that this sort of thing won't happen again."
Bluebonnet said:
He has to hit all of his jumps to make the program work. When he misses the tech, yeah, it's just silly. But when he hits those quads (like he did at U.S. Nationals last year), it's like, Oh that Ryan (yuck, yuck) -- but look at those quads!
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- Mar 12, 2007
Truly, my strongest impression of the men's lp event is how much I enjoyed Ross Miner's charismatic performance. Now to read the thread backwards and hope I'm not the only admirer of his program and the way he skated it! (I'm guessing/hoping not -- I hope he caught plenty of eyes!)
To me that really was an accomplished, riveting performance though I know the strong feelings the results will of course, and understandably, engender.
To me that really was an accomplished, riveting performance though I know the strong feelings the results will of course, and understandably, engender.
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I've had issues with the selection process for a while now and have commented about it on this board in the past. Today was just another example of why I find it faulty. I actually really liked Miner's performance today and I'm happy for him for medaling... I just wouldn't be sending him to Worlds over Abbott.
How do you know if I'm a he?
Not that that matters. I don't think I wrote a long rant, and the stats were just to point out how dominant Abbott has been over Miner internationally this season. I would like USFS to take these things into consideration rather than rendering the GP results meaningless. Those results really help demonstrate where our skaters stack up internationally.
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- Jul 26, 2003
Ah, I haven't had chance to read through this long thread yet. But where is the outrage on this newly crowned 2 fall champion?! Double standard?
Have you read the thread? There is a significant amount of outrage about Ryan. Jeremy's flaws, however, are tolerated
And if I were going to screw with the placings, Dornbush would go to Jr. Worlds where he will win, setting him up beautifully for the next season, which will be his first on the Grand Prix. (Ross is too old for juniors). Then you could send Abbott to Worlds.
However, I prefer to let the winners go to Worlds.
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- Jan 7, 2011
I'm sorry gold12345, I got a bit testy.
I think if the USFS wants to change the rule on how world team selections are made, they sure could and it would be fair if they put it into effect after this season and announce it before the next one.
However, basing world team selection on grand prix results don't guarantee either fairness or good world team selections. Skaters get GP assignments based on their previous year's finish at nationals (and other competitions, I think, according to USFS's team envelope criteria or some such). That means that a skater who suddenly had a breakout that season would have to wait a season before going to worlds, even though he's been landing quads and 8 triples in non-GP competitions. Then in between seasons he switches boots and his technique is ruined and he missed his one chance to win berths for his country. That's an extreme example, but we all know that skaters can improve or decline drastically between seasons, and the GP-reliant scheme (or any scheme that relies on international competitions really) would be hampered by that. The idea of sending skaters to a skate-off at 4cc or Euros seems a better way to go if the goal is to get the best results for the home country.
I think if the USFS wants to change the rule on how world team selections are made, they sure could and it would be fair if they put it into effect after this season and announce it before the next one.
However, basing world team selection on grand prix results don't guarantee either fairness or good world team selections. Skaters get GP assignments based on their previous year's finish at nationals (and other competitions, I think, according to USFS's team envelope criteria or some such). That means that a skater who suddenly had a breakout that season would have to wait a season before going to worlds, even though he's been landing quads and 8 triples in non-GP competitions. Then in between seasons he switches boots and his technique is ruined and he missed his one chance to win berths for his country. That's an extreme example, but we all know that skaters can improve or decline drastically between seasons, and the GP-reliant scheme (or any scheme that relies on international competitions really) would be hampered by that. The idea of sending skaters to a skate-off at 4cc or Euros seems a better way to go if the goal is to get the best results for the home country.
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- Jun 27, 2003
Have you read the thread? There is a significant amount of outrage about Ryan. Jeremy's flaws, however, are tolerated
better you than me to state that... but I'd wanted to. and where's your take on Keegan's skate? hmmmm????
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- Jan 7, 2011
Have you read the thread? There is a significant amount of outrage about Ryan. Jeremy's flaws, however, are tolerated
Heavy hangs the head that wears the crown... or in this case bevies hang the clown that came out ahead.
I've had issues with the selection process for a while now and have commented about it on this board in the past. Today was just another example of why I find it faulty. I actually really liked Miner's performance today and I'm happy for him for medaling... I just wouldn't be sending him to Worlds over Abbott.
How do you know if I'm a he?
I seem to recall similar arguments made last year when Evora and Ladwig made the Olympic/World team over Inoe/Baldwin. Everyone talked about how much here Rena and John's international scores were etc. Then that pair who was just going to do so poorly, beat our National champions at the Olympics, and did very well Worlds too. Their PCS took a huge leap. The thing is when your going into international competitions as an unknown skater who hasn't even made your country's world team etc it can be very hard to get the score. Exposure and the judges knowing you makes it so much different. I'm not saying that Miner is going to score at this point anywhere near Abbott's level. But I am trying to say that this kind of experience can be a big thing, international judges will look and Ricky/Miner differently. We have to let our young skaters get that kind of exposure from the international judges when they earn it.
I don't mind the concept of taking other competitions into account, but that needs to be made clear to the skaters beforehand. It was clear to I/K and R/T that the worlds spot would be decided at Europeans.
But when it comes to other competitions, I think that Nationals or a direct head to head competition should be the primary deciding factor. I actually think that other competitions should really only be taken into account in special cases.
The thing that needs to be taken into account is that Jeremy is 25, who knows how long he has going to stay in. He's also pretty much American's Sandhu. Yes he placed fifth at last year's worlds, but he was pretty lucky to do that based on his skating and others skating. In contrast both Miner and Dornbush are a lot younger and more likely to stick around to Sochi and beyond. It may not necessarily be a bad idea to give them some opportunities and put them in front of judges and see how they do.
The point I'm making is that maybe short term sending Abbott is the best idea. But long term its very possible that sending Miner and Dornbush is the better long term investment. If you never give your young skaters the opportunities they earn, eventually they'll quiet/leave the sport.
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- Jun 27, 2003
while I agree it's not gung ho technical from start to finish, nor florish and finesse, it's still a fantastic program, just not skated or performed at its best. He did far and away better with it last year at nationals (though it was far from perfect as he popped/doubled a few jumps). He'd not be champion if Jeremy had skated decently.
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- Jun 21, 2003
Not in all of history, no. But still...Ryan won the the championship solely on the basis of two absolutely atrocious jumps -- but that doesn't matter. Somehow get yourself three-quarters of the way around and here's your gold medal.
...?...??...!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I find Ryan's National championship way more upsetting than Miner/Dornbush being sent to Worlds. I have no issues with Ryan, but his skating skills aren't that good and his quads were underrotated. Thats what wasn't right.
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- Sep 14, 2008
This was simply a CRAZY event and by far the most unpredictable event I've ever seen? Just whoah.
I don't have time to read through this thread but I'll say about Bradley quickly that I respect him a lot for pulling the program together after the opening misses. His 3Axel-3Toe later in the program really brought the performance back to life in a big way. You also have to really respect the fact that he tried 2 Quads and 2 Triple Axels in the first place.
I don't have time to read through this thread but I'll say about Bradley quickly that I respect him a lot for pulling the program together after the opening misses. His 3Axel-3Toe later in the program really brought the performance back to life in a big way. You also have to really respect the fact that he tried 2 Quads and 2 Triple Axels in the first place.
Be careful, some of the more sensitive girl fans here of the hunky new Champion would think you are bashing their perseverent hero for no good reason.
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- Jun 21, 2003
Dornbush and Miner were far and away the best in the long program. The judges agreed, placing them #1 and #2 in the LP, a point apart and way ahead of everyone else.
Bradley's big lead from the SP managed to hold up overall, though. All in all, there was not really much controversy in the scoring. although of course there were some disappointments.
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- Jun 27, 2003
agreed. At least he didn't plan to get all the way around and fall to win an olympic bronze.
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- Jun 21, 2003
^ Comparing Abbott to Bradley, I feel the same way as Mirai versus Rachael. Bradly and Flatt did some good stuff mixed in with the bad. Abbott and Mirai weren't terrible, but they just weren't themselves from the opening pose.
(I really wanted Jeremy to win so Yuka Sato could win coach of the year.
)
I thought Keegan came out of the box a little helter-skeletr, but settled in and gave a good accounting of himself. That last triple Lutz right on the closing note of the music was unreal!
(I really wanted Jeremy to win so Yuka Sato could win coach of the year.
)I thought Keegan came out of the box a little helter-skeletr, but settled in and gave a good accounting of himself. That last triple Lutz right on the closing note of the music was unreal!
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