Lillehammer 1994 - Ladies' Free Skate | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Lillehammer 1994 - Ladies' Free Skate

In my opinion, the judges should have given Josee Chouinard the full time she would have had to prepare for her long program - as if Harding had skated the program and the typical time for awarding the scores had passed - and not been rushed into skating before her rotation in the flight.

It was disgraceful, plain and simple. Chouinard's coach(s) must have been besides themselves at this travesty. Josee showed such grace and sportsmanship after her skate, despite the fact that she had been rushed onto the ice and made several unfortunate errors. I do no recall hearing her complain or grouse to the press, judges, or public about this incident.
 
Stuff often happens at competitions. Chouinard and her coaches should have prepared and trained for that eventuality. In fact, I would be shocked to hear that they had not prepared for interruptions. Other coaches do that prep.

It's possible she would have skated badly in any case. It's possible that if Tonya had not had her drama moment, that Josee would have skated better. However, Josee was always inconsistent at competitions, and it's impossible to say.

Stuff that I have seen that interrupted other skater's normal timing for when they would get on the ice:

Dube and Davison's collision in a spin, where her cheek was cut.
Totmianina's horrible fall from a lift at Skate America
Zhang Dan's horrible fall at the Olympics
Jonathan Cassar hunting around for his broken cross chain at US Nationals this year.
Numerous broken skates and laces too numerous to mention. It happens a lot. And costumes falling apart.
Johnny Weir's restart and withdrawal at US Nationals in Dallas, I think
Dorothy Hamill falling apart when the crowd was booing the marks of the previous skater and she thought they were booing her.
Massive power failure at 1984 Worlds in Ottawa.
And so on.

If Josee wasn't prepared for interruptions, she should have been
 
Probably true, Doris, but this one wasn't an accident. It was just one more bruise inflicted by Tonya in her lamentable effort to avoid the consequences of her actions, which is why it galls me (and probably others) so much. Josee probably had no chance to medal under the best of circumstances--she was a head case who makes Alissa Czisny look like Katarina Witt by comparison--but her Olympic experience could have been a little more satisfying.

As a matter of principle, I don't resent skaters who win instead of other skaters I was rooting for. After all, everyone wants the gold, and everyone tries his/her/their hardest to achieve it. Tara had every right to try to defeat Michelle, Evan had every right to try to outskate Plushy, and Grishuk/Platov were entitled to try to mow down Usova/Zhulin--and to succeed. All do their best, and the judges' decisions are out of their hands in any case. That's what competition is all about. But this was a different kettle of fish entirely. Tonya and her little crew came within millimeters of disabling Nancy Kerrigan for life. I remember how agitated and downright sick I felt for those days in 1994 until the MRI results came back showing that Kerrigan's knee would heal without complication. No one deserves to benefit from such behavior, and the fact that she somehow managed to sue her way onto the Olympic team was bad enough. Then she deprived Michelle of the chance to skate in her well-deserved first Olympics and jinxed Chouinard's attempt as well. Michelle certainly made up for it with the rest of her illustrious career, but Josee never did, and that's a pity.
 
The rules at the time were that a skater had two minutes from when his/her/their name(s) was announced to take their starting position before being disqualified (it has since be reduced to 1 minute). IF Chouinard was not ready when they called her name and needed a minute, she could have taken it.
 
Don't they have different rules now about re-starts after equipment failures?

It seems like the referee could have told Tonya, you have two minutes to fix your shoestring and get back out there. This happened to Michelle kwan at 2001 worlds qualifying.

Otherwise, anyone who didn't like their draw for skate order could fake an equipment problem and skate later.

I think at the 1998 Olympics everyone was on pins and needles not to seem like they were picking on Tonya. In case she was proven to be innocent in the plot against Kerrigan, the ISU wanted to make sure that she did not have any basis for a law suit.
 
Mathman said:
Don't they have different rules now about re-starts after equipment failures?

It seems like the referee could have told Tonya, you have two minutes to fix your shoestring and get back out there. This happened to Michelle kwan at 2001 worlds qualifying.
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Some of the rules have changed, yes. And some of them esp. in 1994 left some areas of discretion up to the referee.

IIRC, the biggest change is that skaters used to have the option of starting from the beginning of the program even if the judges were told to start judging at the point of interruption and now they have to start from the point of interruption so there isn't a sense of continuity.

Or something like that.

Otherwise, anyone who didn't like their draw for skate order could fake an equipment problem and skate later.
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That would seem to be more trouble than it's worth. I don't think that would be more relaxing than just skating as planned.

Skating first after the warmup is not ideal because the skater is still out of breath if they use the full warmup time. Usually the first skater will stop early. But I don't see any advantage to using the full warmup time and then faking a problem in hopes that the ref will let her start later. These days, she probably wouldn't get that option and would just get disqualified.

Skating second is usually ideal -- time to recover from the full warmup but not enough time for the muscles to cool down again.

The later after the warmup you skate, the less benefit you get from the warmup. So delaying the performance even further by faking a problem would not be an advantage. And there isn't any way to fake a problem for your own equipment that would allow you to skate earlier.

Only the first skater after the warmup really has any incentive to want to delay.

I think at the 1998 Olympics everyone was on pins and needles not to seem like they were picking on Tonya. In case she was proven to be innocent in the plot against Kerrigan, the ISU wanted to make sure that she did not have any basis for a law suit.
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1994, you mean, right? Yes, I think that is true.

Harding did get a little more benefit of the doubt in terms of being allowed to skate again at the end of the group. With another skater, the referee might have just said continue from where you left off or else withdraw.

As far as Chouinard goes, she didn't get any disadvantage that she wouldn't also have gotten from a completely innocent program interruption by a preceding skater. She would have had the same amount of time if Harding had withdrawn or been DQ'd.

I think the reason this was made a big deal of was because the networks were looking for any drama related to Harding they could find to play up. And lucky for them she provided some.

If the same thing had happened to a no-name skater in a tape-delayed broadcast, but they did plan to show that skater's performance, they might have shown the false start and the interruption and then summarized the problem and showed her full skate at the end of the group in chronological sequence. Or not even shown the false start at all and just shown the eventual full skate with an announcer informing viewers that there had been a problem with the lace earlier and the skater was allowed to skate at the end of the group.

Personally, I wish CBS had done that and kept enough broadcast time for figure skating to show Tanja Szewcenko's long program in the final group instead of "chacking" her. But they knew that Harding drama would be of more interest to casual viewers.

In a live broadcast, of course they have to show what's going on at the time (unless it's obviously going to be a long delay, or a short enough one they can just fill with a commercial break) because they don't know what the outcome will be.
 
If it had been any other skater I would cried foul too. As much as I loved Josee she could never hold it together. I think Tonya has taken enough abused. Say what you want but, Tonya made many skaters wealthy in the 90's including Josee.
 
Remember the “Lace Capades” 1989 US Nationals? Natalie Seybold caught one of her skate laces while attempting a throw jump, skated to the judges, put her leg on the boards, and showed the lace to the judges. She was given the time to relace her skate and then RESUME THE PROGRAM WHERE IT WAS STOPPED. This would have been a more appropriate ruling for Harding. She stopped after the first triple attempt, so she would have had nearly a complete program to skate, and perhaps she might have managed to deliver a respectable routine.

The above action would have given Chouinard more time, actually, to prepare for her long program, and this might have been disruptive too, as a longer wait gives more time for the nerves to kick in. Still, she would not have been rushed into the long program.

Harding won the 1991 US Nationals with a brilliant program that included the first-ever triple axel landed by an American woman. She won the silver at Worlds that year, behind Yamaguchi, but she (Tonya) was definitely not a happy camper finishing second. She wanted to win.

Unfortunately, Harding did not apply herself mentally and physically to prepare herself for the Olympics. At the 1992 Nationals, she flubbed her triple axel and finished third, then delayed her arrival at Albertville, missed her triple axel in the competition, and finished fourth. She also did not medal at Worlds that year.

In 1993, Harding arrived at the US Nationals overweight and under-trained, and she did not qualify for the US World team.

So, on to 1994. Presumably, Harding considered this as her last chance to grab the golden ring and become the next great American skating star. She and her brainless cohorts took the easy way out – wipe out the competition to clear the path.

The media frenzy was unbelievable. Both Nancy and Tonya were on the covers of “Time” and “Newsweek”, and numerous television interviews for with both skaters (filmed separately, of course) were included in the network television evening news broadcasts. I remember Tom Brokow introducing these pieces, which seemed to air almost every evening. There were stories of Nancy’s rehab, family, opening the ton of letters of support she received from around the world, and Tonya’s practice sessions in Oregon. Harding acted as though she had nothing to fear, and she appeared stunned when she finally “admitted” to knowing more about the clubbing than she originally said. She made statements such as “I like Nancy. I respect Nancy.” It just wasn’t believable, as far as I was concerned.

IMHO, the USFSA should have stuck to their guns and thrown Harding off the US team. The fact that she hindered the prosecution was enough to disqualify her from representing the US, as far as I’m concerned. Of course, she threatened to sue – and my thought was – go ahead and sue.

That being said, I hope Tonya has gotten her life back in order. She had a great amount of talent, and it was a tragedy that it was wasted in this manner.

Just my two cents, of course.
 
Tonya got an injunction so she WOULDN'T get thrown off the team. It was unknown at the time whether she was involved or not and to what extent.

Also, the difference is at what point the disruption occurred. I think the rule was something like "less than 30 seconds in, skater could opt for a complete reskate after fixing the issue" versus beyond 30 seconds was pick up where you left off.
 
Whether Nancy was rightful champion or not, she sure skated a gorgeous program. It was smooth and powerful--I always loved her style and approach. And to have that kind of focus after what had happened to her was well nigh miraculous. (Especially for someone who was a bit of a head case in so many of her previous long programs.) My personal taste was that I liked her program better than Oksana's rather fussy and girlish program, with the pink princess outfit and the rather banal music. As I've said before, I infinitely prefer Oksana's short program, really splendid, to this free skate of hers.

I think they were a hair's breadth apart in scores, just as Michelle and Tara were an Olympic cycle later. So the judges really could have gone either way, and neither lady (in either pair, 1994 or 1998) should have regrets, nor should their fans.
 
Oksana's program sucked. She deserved no more than 5.5 for technical merit and 5.8 for presentation, and even that might be generous. I had her 5th in the long program behind Kerrigan, Sato, Chen, and possibly Bonaly. Virtually every judge overscored her other than possibly the British judge who gave her 5.6 technical, 5.8 presentation (vs 5.8 technical and 5.9 presentation for Kerrigan's light years superior program) and placed her 3rd in the long program behind Kerrigan and Chen.

The one judge who gave her a 5.9 for technical merit should be banned from judging for life. This is the judge who should take the most heat for her farce gold medal, not Hoffmann. This judge had already given Kerrigan 5.8 technical, 5.9 presentation, so as Baiul needed all of her 5 votes, Baiul's win would not have been possible without that outrageous 5.9 for technical merit from this incompetent donkey of a judge.
 
blue_idealist said:
Yeah, I don't recall watching the competition, since I was young and maybe I didn't even watch the entire thing, but I read about the skate lace incident in Josee Chouinard's book and I feel sorry for her that that occurred. However, I don't think she would have medalled even if she'd skated at her scheduled time; her nerves worked against her too much.
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Josee didnt have a prayer of a medal at that point even if she had the performance of her life. She had already fallen in the short program and was down in 8th place, not skating in the final flight. Yuka Sato was 7th after the short and also not in the final flight, as she also made a major error in the short, and she had a skate on par with her World Championship winning skate and could still only pull up to 5th overall.
 
pangtongfan said:
Josee didnt have a prayer of a medal at that point even if she had the performance of her life. She had already fallen in the short program and was down in 8th place, not skating in the final flight. Yuka Sato was 7th after the short and also not in the final flight, as she also made a major error in the short, and she had a skate on par with her World Championship winning skate and could still only pull up to 5th overall.
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True, Josee and Tonya were in the second flight, as a result of their short program scores. Josee would not have medaled, but that's not my point. She was denied the opportunity to go out and skate her long program IN THE OLYMPICS under the proper circumstances.

As for the 1994 Worlds, Yuko Sato had an open door, thanks to the no-shows of all of the medalists from Lillehammer. Her skating was very good, not particularly brilliant, but it was definitely good enough to give her the World title.
 
Every post by pangtongfan can be summed up as thus:

"ANGER ANGER ANGER, BLAH BLAH BLAH, I LIKE TO CALL EVERYONE BAD AND MAKE SWEEPING GENERALIZATIONS ABOUT EVERYTHING IN LIFE."
 
silverpond said:
True, Josee and Tonya were in the second flight, as a result of their short program scores. Josee would not have medaled, but that's not my point. She was denied the opportunity to go out and skate her long program IN THE OLYMPICS under the proper circumstances.

As for the 1994 Worlds, Yuko Sato had an open door, thanks to the no-shows of all of the medalists from Lillehammer. Her skating was very good, not particularly brilliant, but it was definitely good enough to give her the World title.
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Your statement in the first paragraph says what I've been thinking. It isn't whether Josee would have medaled; it's that she was deprived of the Olympics she should have had, even if that meant getting nervous and underperforming. At least it would have been for her own sake, not because someone else goofed things up for her.

As for your second paragraph, I don't know what factors led to Yuka's world championship, but I'm so glad she achieved it. What a delightful skater, and she only got better as a pro.
 
Olympia said:
Your statement in the first paragraph says what I've been thinking. It isn't whether Josee would have medaled; it's that she was deprived of the Olympics she should have had, even if that meant getting nervous and underperforming. At least it would have been for her own sake, not because someone else goofed things up for her.

As for your second paragraph, I don't know what factors led to Yuka's world championship, but I'm so glad she achieved it. What a delightful skater, and she only got better as a pro.
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:agree: :rock:

Not being a 'techy" expert, I felt Oksana deserved the OGM at the time. In retrospect, I feel Nancy should have won it.

Josee was the "sacraficial lamb" in Lillehammer. It's a shame that she had to regroup under those bizarre circumstances.

I mentioned in another thread how impressed I was with Yuka back at the 1992 Olympics, so I was ecstatic when she won 1994 Worlds, and went on to become a delightful pro. I'm thrilled she and Jason are enjoying success as respected coaches now.
 
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Josee's situation was very unfortunate, and "unfair" but ... that is also the nature of competition.

IMO I think if one were to compare the skating and performance that Yuka delivered at Worlds that year with any of the medal winning programs from the Olympics, her gold medal winning skate would stand up quite well. Yuka is like many of the skaters who have such high quality edges and speed. The TV does them a disservice because it is harder to appreciate the speed and harder to thrill in the quietness of edge. Yuka's skating most resembles Janet Lynn's IMO and to me she really and truly delivered under the super high pressured circumstance known as "Worlds before a Home Crowd" She is a deserving champion - both for her skate and for her competitive performance and delivery.
 
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