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- Thread starter icemusings
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- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
Come to think about it, npa needs to learn what some really bad ice dancers look like. Assuredly D&W are not the worst ice dancers ever.
Please check out the last place teams at US and Canadian nationals for a level setter.
Please check out the last place teams at US and Canadian nationals for a level setter.
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2012
Davis and White are the most amazing ice dancing team that I have ever seen. Their total package including speed, athleticism, togetherness and intricacy is the best ever!
Let's not limit it to North America...
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
Too true 
but I didn't wish to be accused of picking a non North American team as the worst ever, since I would be accused of pro North American bias, and that all that needed to be proven was that D&W are not the worst ice dancers evah . Any team named needs only to be obvious to even an D&W hater that they were worse than D&W.
Glastris & Allison, who were 14th at US Nationals this year, and who scored only 32.24 in the FD (60.46 overall) demonstrate that quite nicely.
Jazz Smyl Joly & Nicholas Jesionok, 14th at Canadians, who finished with a total score of 86.35 also make my case for me.
(Although Jazz Smyl Joly has one of the best names ever!)
And in both cases, there were teams at sectionals and Challenge who didn't even qualify for Nationals, and thus were worse yet.
but I didn't wish to be accused of picking a non North American team as the worst ever, since I would be accused of pro North American bias, and that all that needed to be proven was that D&W are not the worst ice dancers evah . Any team named needs only to be obvious to even an D&W hater that they were worse than D&W.Glastris & Allison, who were 14th at US Nationals this year, and who scored only 32.24 in the FD (60.46 overall) demonstrate that quite nicely.
Jazz Smyl Joly & Nicholas Jesionok, 14th at Canadians, who finished with a total score of 86.35 also make my case for me.
(Although Jazz Smyl Joly has one of the best names ever!)
And in both cases, there were teams at sectionals and Challenge who didn't even qualify for Nationals, and thus were worse yet.
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I saw protocols and they won, because there dads bought them all 10th for interpretation
If this is not truth, why you all start so nervouse.
I saw Canadian Nationals and all Russian Nationals, and Ech, WCh and even 4CC. I said - they worst ever World champions and will become worst ever OGM.
But beautie is in our minds - so for you she is beautifull, for me - no. And he is a wood without any expression, when she all time have the same face
I think you in USA had much better teams
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- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
OK, so now they are not the worst ice dancers ever - they are the worst World Champions ever? Or the worst Olympic medallists ever?
I know a couple of worse performances by Olympic medallists (D&W have no OGM) than D&W's FD at US Nationals:
Linichuk & Karponosov 1980 FD (gold) (this is a really dreadful dance, including a stumble and a really bad interpretation of hoedown)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gxu4LbJUXrM
Bestemianova & Bukin 1984 Olympics FD (silver) (where they hardly managed to step to the beat at any time. The feature of running on skates rather than using edges was one they used in many of their programs, and not one I particularly admire. There was also Natalia's air guitar style of running her feet back and forth without stepping on the ice, that I like even less.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuWeBG6h8ek
Grushina Goncharov 2006 Olympics FD (bronze) where they were so slow, you almost wanted to send the sweepers out to push them along. Not to mention her outrageous costume.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGG4vtO-lLo
Fusar Poli & Margaglio 2002 Olympics FD (bronze) I will Survive, with Maurizio stumbling around
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vj_CZVnN63k
I know a couple of worse performances by Olympic medallists (D&W have no OGM) than D&W's FD at US Nationals:
Linichuk & Karponosov 1980 FD (gold) (this is a really dreadful dance, including a stumble and a really bad interpretation of hoedown)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gxu4LbJUXrM
Bestemianova & Bukin 1984 Olympics FD (silver) (where they hardly managed to step to the beat at any time. The feature of running on skates rather than using edges was one they used in many of their programs, and not one I particularly admire. There was also Natalia's air guitar style of running her feet back and forth without stepping on the ice, that I like even less.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuWeBG6h8ek
Grushina Goncharov 2006 Olympics FD (bronze) where they were so slow, you almost wanted to send the sweepers out to push them along. Not to mention her outrageous costume.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGG4vtO-lLo
Fusar Poli & Margaglio 2002 Olympics FD (bronze) I will Survive, with Maurizio stumbling around
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vj_CZVnN63k
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- Joined
- Feb 25, 2006
What about Domnina/Shabalin's Olympic bronze-medal skates in 2010? Excluding the compulsory dance, I think they would be in the running for worst Olympic medalists.
And yes, the Linichuk/Karponosov dance is bad, I got about halfway through. I got about 20 seconds into the Bestamianova/Bukin one before flicking it off. The other two, I've seen. G/G wasn't totally horrendous.
And yes, the Linichuk/Karponosov dance is bad, I got about halfway through. I got about 20 seconds into the Bestamianova/Bukin one before flicking it off. The other two, I've seen. G/G wasn't totally horrendous.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
Re G&G, true, but man they were slow. And they were certainly worse than Davis & White's Der Fledermaus FD, IMO.
Those were sort of in my order of general disgust.
As to Domnina & Shabalin, if we were going with worst ever OSP/OD/SD at an Olympics, their aborigine dance is probably the winner, but I was doing FD's.
Domnina & Shabalin's FD was actually very clever-it was taking advantage of the rules as they were then (and now are specifically forbidden to use straps and such as part of a lift), but considering the shape of Maxim's knees, I would cut them some slack. And they did do a really spiffy Tango Romantica.
Olympia, I do remember the look of doom.
In fact, G&G and F-P/M are two reasons that COP has its current shape-to avoid having couples with really unequal skills.
Those were sort of in my order of general disgust.
As to Domnina & Shabalin, if we were going with worst ever OSP/OD/SD at an Olympics, their aborigine dance is probably the winner, but I was doing FD's.
Domnina & Shabalin's FD was actually very clever-it was taking advantage of the rules as they were then (and now are specifically forbidden to use straps and such as part of a lift), but considering the shape of Maxim's knees, I would cut them some slack. And they did do a really spiffy Tango Romantica.
Olympia, I do remember the look of doom.
In fact, G&G and F-P/M are two reasons that COP has its current shape-to avoid having couples with really unequal skills.
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So why you need post all this garbage about great champions?
I think B-B were not slower then D-W now.
And like expert, you need to know, L-K skated at another era and its hard to compare them with D-W.
The one thing i could compare its lines and posture.
Linichuk had beautifull lines and posture. Davis in ugley dancer with shoet arms and legs, she didnt even try to do something with her lines. And he couldndt be compare with all other ladies in your list, Doris.
Bestemianova had so much power and personality and she had and still have really beautifull lines
So i understand you simply hate Soviete great fancers.
As for Morgalio - he was not a best skater, but he was one of the best dancers. Look at him in latin OD in 2000
So dont touch good people to show D-W could dance - they coudnt and they are worst World champions
I think B-B were not slower then D-W now.
And like expert, you need to know, L-K skated at another era and its hard to compare them with D-W.
The one thing i could compare its lines and posture.
Linichuk had beautifull lines and posture. Davis in ugley dancer with shoet arms and legs, she didnt even try to do something with her lines. And he couldndt be compare with all other ladies in your list, Doris.
Bestemianova had so much power and personality and she had and still have really beautifull lines
So i understand you simply hate Soviete great fancers.
As for Morgalio - he was not a best skater, but he was one of the best dancers. Look at him in latin OD in 2000
So dont touch good people to show D-W could dance - they coudnt and they are worst World champions
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
OK, so now D&W are not the worst ice dancers ever, or the worst World/Olympic medallists ever, they are the worst World Champions ever?
You are of course entitled to have your opinions.
However, I do not hate Russian dancers, and I wish you would not make those insinuations about me. I like some, don't care about some, and dislike others. As I do with American dancers. I respect all of them, even my unfavorites Linichuk & Karponosov.
I really liked Klimova & Ponomarenko, Krylova & Ovsiannakov, and Moiseeva & Minenkov, and completely loved Usova & Zhulin, Annenko & Sretensky, and Pakhmova & Gorshkov to distraction.
I never said Bestemianova & Bukin were slow. It was Grushina & Goncharov who were slow (Ukrainians). B&B were fast but found it challenging to skate to music at all. They were all about acting, not dancing, IMO. They covered up by skating through the music with really fast stepping. And the act got old really quickly, again IMO. They were very nice people, though, loved wherever they went.
And some dances of the past from that era have worn very well-claiming that the lack of quality of Linichuk was universal in 1980 and in years shortly before and after is just not true. Compare these fabulous medal winning performances with Linichuk & Karponosov's:
Pakhomova & Gorshkov's FD 1976
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POZKOQai7l0
Regoeczy & Sallay's FD 1980 (Worlds) Czardas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GBmjnWqwQ0
Torvill & Dean FD Mack & Mabel 1982
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dp2jCHs5CdY&feature=related
I value it when a team makes music come alive for me, when they move in time to the music. Linichuk and Bestemianova both skated through their music most of the time. You complained about wooden facial expressions; no one was or is more wooden in expression than Linichuk & Karponosov. So they are still my vote for worst World Champions ever, worst Olympic gold medallists ever, etc.
And if they are the worst, Davis & White can't be the worst.
As to Margaglio, yes he could simulate being a Latin lover really well, because he really looked the part. But being able to skate, IMO, is a requirement for being a good World ice dancing champion. YMMV. Otherwise, lets just hold beauty contests or acting contests and forget about the skating entirely. So for me for a good ice dance champion, first they should be able to skate (ice in ice dance, people), and second they should be able to move to music (dance in ice dance). Linichuk couldn't dance, and Margaglio couldn't skate. Both are severe flaws to me in an ice dance championship team. For that matter Lobacheva (of Lobacheva & Averbukh) couldn't skate either when they won their World Championship in 2002, and when they lost it to Bourne & Kraatz in 2003, but a lot of that was due to injuries. I would never put a team on the "Worst Champion" list when the problem was injuries.
I have to laugh at your suggestion that Meryl should have somehow gotten longer arms and legs. Should she have had surgery?
And yes, she has said if she could have one thing in this world that she didn't have, it would be longer legs.
But that doesn't mean that girl can't dance.
Your claim that Meryl Davis has not tried to do anything about her lines is just false, and it can be easily proved by checking out their performances when they first came to seniors versus this year's nationals:
Here is their 2008 Nationals Yankee Polka CD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxVlpV3UOG4
Their leg line when the legs are extended behind them do not match some of the time.
See the difference with this year's Nationals SD during the compulsory portion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEj-vTW1bbE#t=2m3s
Much improved, kids!
One of things I particularly like about Davis & White is their concentration on trying to improve their dancing every year, recognizing their shortcomings, and working at them, and never believing that their appearance or past successes should somehow entitle them to high scores without performances to back them up.
I am not claiming they are the best World Champions ever (Torvill and Dean
), but they are not the worst either. They still have things that they are working to improve. IMO, this year's FD Der Fledermaus, is a lot better dance than last year's World Championship winning Tango. I hope they can continue improving!
I won't get into an argument with you about Meryl's beauty or lack of it. It's completely immaterial to whether they can dance or not, and in any case, beauty is always a matter of personal opinion, but your disrespect is so high, I do wonder whether Meryl cut you off at a stop sign once or something.
And I am somewhat surprised that you apparently think the Shibutanis should have won Worlds last year, since they are the only team in the US anywhere near close to Davis and White at this time, and you claim there are better teams in the US than Davis & White.
You are of course entitled to have your opinions.
However, I do not hate Russian dancers, and I wish you would not make those insinuations about me. I like some, don't care about some, and dislike others. As I do with American dancers. I respect all of them, even my unfavorites Linichuk & Karponosov.
I really liked Klimova & Ponomarenko, Krylova & Ovsiannakov, and Moiseeva & Minenkov, and completely loved Usova & Zhulin, Annenko & Sretensky, and Pakhmova & Gorshkov to distraction.
I never said Bestemianova & Bukin were slow. It was Grushina & Goncharov who were slow (Ukrainians). B&B were fast but found it challenging to skate to music at all. They were all about acting, not dancing, IMO. They covered up by skating through the music with really fast stepping. And the act got old really quickly, again IMO. They were very nice people, though, loved wherever they went.
And some dances of the past from that era have worn very well-claiming that the lack of quality of Linichuk was universal in 1980 and in years shortly before and after is just not true. Compare these fabulous medal winning performances with Linichuk & Karponosov's:
Pakhomova & Gorshkov's FD 1976
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POZKOQai7l0
Regoeczy & Sallay's FD 1980 (Worlds) Czardas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GBmjnWqwQ0
Torvill & Dean FD Mack & Mabel 1982
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dp2jCHs5CdY&feature=related
I value it when a team makes music come alive for me, when they move in time to the music. Linichuk and Bestemianova both skated through their music most of the time. You complained about wooden facial expressions; no one was or is more wooden in expression than Linichuk & Karponosov. So they are still my vote for worst World Champions ever, worst Olympic gold medallists ever, etc.
And if they are the worst, Davis & White can't be the worst.
As to Margaglio, yes he could simulate being a Latin lover really well, because he really looked the part. But being able to skate, IMO, is a requirement for being a good World ice dancing champion. YMMV. Otherwise, lets just hold beauty contests or acting contests and forget about the skating entirely. So for me for a good ice dance champion, first they should be able to skate (ice in ice dance, people), and second they should be able to move to music (dance in ice dance). Linichuk couldn't dance, and Margaglio couldn't skate. Both are severe flaws to me in an ice dance championship team. For that matter Lobacheva (of Lobacheva & Averbukh) couldn't skate either when they won their World Championship in 2002, and when they lost it to Bourne & Kraatz in 2003, but a lot of that was due to injuries. I would never put a team on the "Worst Champion" list when the problem was injuries.
I have to laugh at your suggestion that Meryl should have somehow gotten longer arms and legs. Should she have had surgery?
And yes, she has said if she could have one thing in this world that she didn't have, it would be longer legs.
But that doesn't mean that girl can't dance.
Your claim that Meryl Davis has not tried to do anything about her lines is just false, and it can be easily proved by checking out their performances when they first came to seniors versus this year's nationals:
Here is their 2008 Nationals Yankee Polka CD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxVlpV3UOG4
Their leg line when the legs are extended behind them do not match some of the time.
See the difference with this year's Nationals SD during the compulsory portion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEj-vTW1bbE#t=2m3s
Much improved, kids!
One of things I particularly like about Davis & White is their concentration on trying to improve their dancing every year, recognizing their shortcomings, and working at them, and never believing that their appearance or past successes should somehow entitle them to high scores without performances to back them up.
I am not claiming they are the best World Champions ever (Torvill and Dean
), but they are not the worst either. They still have things that they are working to improve. IMO, this year's FD Der Fledermaus, is a lot better dance than last year's World Championship winning Tango. I hope they can continue improving! I won't get into an argument with you about Meryl's beauty or lack of it. It's completely immaterial to whether they can dance or not, and in any case, beauty is always a matter of personal opinion, but your disrespect is so high, I do wonder whether Meryl cut you off at a stop sign once or something.
And I am somewhat surprised that you apparently think the Shibutanis should have won Worlds last year, since they are the only team in the US anywhere near close to Davis and White at this time, and you claim there are better teams in the US than Davis & White.
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You are D-W uber, so you take this things too close. When i said Meryl is ugley dancer, i mean how with such legs-arms lines she could get 10th in marks for perfomance? I dont care about how she look off-ice and i dont need to respect person, who i didnt know
Why you could show so much disrespect to B-B and L-K?
And why when i see something not so good i need to listen you, that this is real beautie?
Its my opinion, D-W are not dancers and she didnt show good lines on ice. So what my opinion wil made with your "best teamn ever" results? I am sure in you mind you think they are best ever. But i never could understand, how person who said she love T-D, K-P love what D-W doing on ice.
K-P lose to BB because now V-M lose to D-W - speed
But its so hard to have sidcussion with uber. Could you love them without disrespect all others?
Why you could show so much disrespect to B-B and L-K?
And why when i see something not so good i need to listen you, that this is real beautie?
Its my opinion, D-W are not dancers and she didnt show good lines on ice. So what my opinion wil made with your "best teamn ever" results? I am sure in you mind you think they are best ever. But i never could understand, how person who said she love T-D, K-P love what D-W doing on ice.
K-P lose to BB because now V-M lose to D-W - speed
But its so hard to have sidcussion with uber. Could you love them without disrespect all others?
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2011
You are D-W uber, so you take this things too close. When i said Meryl is ugley dancer, i mean how with such legs-arms lines she could get 10th in marks for perfomance? I dont care about how she look off-ice and i dont need to respect person, who i didnt know
Why you could show so much disrespect to B-B and L-K?
And why when i see something not so good i need to listen you, that this is real beautie?
Its my opinion, D-W are not dancers and she didnt show good lines on ice. So what my opinion wil made with your "best teamn ever" results? I am sure in you mind you think they are best ever. But i never could understand, how person who said she love T-D, K-P love what D-W doing on ice.
K-P lose to BB because now V-M lose to D-W - speed
But its so hard to have sidcussion with uber. Could you love them without disrespect all others?
I think your comment is somewhat offensive and I hope the mods will take it down. Doris certainly doesn't need anyone, much less me, to defend her, but she is one of the most level headed ice dance fans out there. She has a nuanced appreciation for the ways in which ice dance is scored and calls it like she sees it. While she appreciates but D/W and V/M I would not call her an 'uber' of either team, but frankly I think she appreciates certain other teams more than D/W in many instances. Either way, though, her opinions both have substance and are educational. I actually used to be an ice dancer and she has taught me TONS which I think really says something. Maybe instead of perceiving her posts as attacks on you you should actually read them and try to appreciate what she is saying. Also, as someone else said, your undefended and crazy assertion that D&W are the worst dance team ever merits no response.
Late to the thread, and trying to catch up on dance as I missed a lot of it during nationals....but to read D/W as worst ever, well is that some kind of huge joke??? Ok, don't tell me, I don't really want to know!!! Have to agree with the dislike, though, of Dom/Shabs Olympic aborigine program (everything about it including the horrid costumes) and I think I understood what they were tyring to do in the FD (including hide his injury), but really disliked it and hated the use of the suspenders or whatever that prop like belt things was; I found myself shocked that that was allowed in the first place. I feel for them, but really thought that B/A should have won the bronze that year. oh well.
Loving D/W's programs ...
Loving D/W's programs ...
You are D-W uber, so you take this things too close. When i said Meryl is ugley dancer, i mean how with such legs-arms lines she could get 10th in marks for perfomance? I dont care about how she look off-ice and i dont need to respect person, who i didnt know
Why you could show so much disrespect to B-B and L-K?
And why when i see something not so good i need to listen you, that this is real beautie?
Its my opinion, D-W are not dancers and she didnt show good lines on ice. So what my opinion wil made with your "best teamn ever" results? I am sure in you mind you think they are best ever. But i never could understand, how person who said she love T-D, K-P love what D-W doing on ice.
K-P lose to BB because now V-M lose to D-W - speed
But its so hard to have sidcussion with uber. Could you love them without disrespect all others?
Pani please leave your craziness on FSU. And it's funny how you come here and write stuff you don't have the balls to say there.
And Doris stop taking the bait you know she's doing this for attention.
I am sorry the truth will made you so sad
I dont need to read Doris posts, because i know about ice dance much more, then Doris
Sorry, i will stop posting truth, wich made you sad. Only if i want to wrignt something like "o, Davis is God" i will be there again.
P.S. Doris afraid to post at FSU what she post at Goldeskate about V-M. By!
I dont need to read Doris posts, because i know about ice dance much more, then Doris
Sorry, i will stop posting truth, wich made you sad. Only if i want to wrignt something like "o, Davis is God" i will be there again.
P.S. Doris afraid to post at FSU what she post at Goldeskate about V-M.
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