2013 Europeans Ladies LP

[LRK]

Anyone who thinks Tut skated like a champion here is lying, delusional or straight-up stupid.

Thank you, you are excessively kind.

Weren't you chiding someone for rudeness in another thread, by the way?

And no, I have no particular "beef" with the final standings, but yes, I think Liza skated like a champion, and she won the FP fair & square. So, which of the three charming possibilities applies to me, I'll just leave to your discretion to determine.

 

[bekalc]

And, to all the ones that are still criticizing her jumps: she landed both 3F+3T and 3Lz+3T during the morning practice!

Okay... I have no problem with Kostner's win, but landing 3/3s in practice doesn't count...We have a clip of Elizaveta landing a 3axel in practice... Its always doing it in competition that is the difficult part. And I have no doubt Kostner would agree with me here.

Now it is good to know Kostner is working on adding those things in...

 

[FSGMT]

3Lz-3T, really?

I hope you made videos of her morning practice?

Unfortunately, I wasn't filming in those moments, I hope someone else was, because the 3F+3T was really beautiful, the 3Lz+3T was not incredible because the lutz was close to the banisters so she had to do a "small" 3T, but it was surely fully rotated! But I filmed her FS runthrough (I will upload it tomorrow, I think), even though it wasn't spectacular: she fell in the 3Lz there...

 

[Tanja90]

Okay... I have no problem with Kostner's win, but landing 3/3s in practice doesn't count...We have a clip of Elizaveta landing a 3axel in practice... Its always doing it in competition that is the difficult part. And I have no doubt Kostner would agree with me here.

Now it is good to know Kostner is working on adding those things in...

You are right...doing it in practice is a thing but doing them in competition is another treat. Still I found the fact that she is training them and planning at least one of them really admirable! She is not so young anymore but she still is able to land perfect jumps and beautiful combos, especially the one with the lutz after her injury. Even if she won't be able to do it at worlds, this carolina really surprises me!

 

[Ziggy]

I was very disappointed with Kostner's program.

Her SP was lovely but the FS really lacked transitions, had long and telegraphed entries into most jumps and was mostly skated through the music until the end where she showed some great expression.

Amazing posture, amazing basic skating, beautiful lines and extensions but crap choreography.

I'm not saying she didn't necessarily deserve to win overall but I am very underwhelmed with her FS. :/

Tuktamysheva gave an incredible performance. Not only technically but her upper body movement was busy throughout the program. She does need to work on her posture and some overall polishing work is needed. I guess that will come with time, she's already improved her PCS abilities significantly since last season. I felt disappointed with her not winning but then, she only has herself to blame for blowing the SP.

Sotnikova left me cold again. Her basics are ok but her programs had no style or character.

I'd probably place Tuktamysheva first, Kostner second and Sotnikova third overall but I am not really gonna argue about that since this just going off a general impression and who knows how the actual scores would turn out if you added everything up.

 

[shine]

There was a little bit too much two foot skating in Carolina's program for my rational mind. But her program appealed to me in every emotional way and artistically I thought it was wonderful. Transitions only add so much to a masterpiece of a performance like that IMO. The use of her entire body throughout the program was so masterful and well thought out. I also loved all the unexpected changes of direction throughout.

 

[gmyers]

Agreed. And that is what sucks- the winner was known in advance if Caro skated clean more or less. I don't think that if Sotnikova hadn't popped her flip, she wouldn have won. They would simply have adjusted Caro's PCS and GOE better . She didn't deserve the title today with 4 triples (I wonder where are all those Mao bashers now who were so loud about her 66 PCS with 4 tripes). To win with less than a point to some Junior debutante is pretty embarrasing by itself. It's even more embarrsing to have BV of second 10s in RN charts (except Makarova). And in case of Caro it's not for the first time. She is repeatedly "pulled" on top by PCS. The charming chart was done by some poster on Yuan forum (all green- won by PCS): http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww96/scheherazade777/carotespcs-1.jpg Don Ottavia should be really happy to enjoy how this system works.
Liza is the best jumper. Just a monster. Adelina was very good too. It's not that easy to skate jazz, especially with strong vocal. But she seems like united with the music and was having fun all around. I am always very grateful to girls when they use something different that ice princess's stuff and overused music. Anyway, good work for all Russian babies. Photos of Adelya and Liza:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BBkXe6MCEAE7P-K.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BBkWb9ICMAAJJvp.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BBkW84PCcAETk4I.jpg

It's very embarrassing. With the system you just know because kostner is very good at what she does well I just doesn't matter how low she goes in jumps as long as they are not singles! She can't single a jump but she can design a program with two double salchows and win. She can show some people in practice 3lz 3T and 3fl3t so when she does her double salchows and wins how great her amazing practice 3/3's. It's very embarrassing.

I am not saying corruption or back room deals just what is going on in ladies? The cop system in ladies is just horribly broken. Kostner almost won the free skate doing double salchows as a main jump. Two jumping passes were with doubles and it wasn't even double axels! Just incredible.

So her double salchows were great double salchows-they are still double salchows.

 

[Ziggy]

Cry more gmyers. Thank god we now have a system where (at least theoretically) everything gets rewarded and not just the jumps.

There was a little bit too much two foot skating in Carolina's program for my rational mind. But her program appealed to me in every emotional way and artistically I thought it was wonderful. Transitions only add so much to a masterpiece of a performance like that IMO. The use of her entire body throughout the program was so masterful and well thought out. I also loved all the unexpected changes of direction throughout.

Hmm those are very good points.

 

[bekalc]

It's very embarrassing. With the system you just know because kostner is very good at what she does well I just doesn't matter how low she goes in jumps as long as they are not singles! She can't single a jump but she can design a program with two double salchows and win. She can show some people in practice 3lz 3T and 3fl3t so when she does her double salchows and wins how great her amazing practice 3/3's. It's very embarrassing.

I am not saying corruption or back room deals just what is going on in ladies? The cop system in ladies is just horribly broken. Kostner almost won the free skate doing double salchows as a main jump. Two jumping passes were with doubles and it wasn't even double axels! Just incredible.

So her double salchows were great double salchows-they are still double salchows.

Kostner didn't design a program with two double jumps....

 

[FlattFan]

Maybe Liza and Adelina can learn to project, can find good programs, can go back to basic and relearn skating skills, then they can start doing double salchow and win Euro.

 

[gmyers]

Cry more gmyers. Thank god we now have a system where (at least theoretically) everything gets rewarded and not just the jumps.

I'd like to know where exactly jumps are being rewarded at all and where this season has any competition been won with respectable jump like 3/3 or lutz and flip and have a SP and LP with those things? NWR?

Kostner didn't design a program with two double jumps....

the doubles didn't seem like accidents. watching it there is no hint of accident

Maybe Liza and Adelina can learn to project, can find good programs, can go back to basic and relearn skating skills, then they can start doing double salchow and win Euro.

This is where things are going- mao can do underrotated triples and win 2ith 3 triples over sp and lp and kostner can do 4 and fill up two jumping passes with double salchows in addition to her double axels.

 

[FSGMT]

the doubles didn't seem like accidents. watching it there is no hint of accident

No, she landed a 3S in the warm-up and she didn't have any problem in landing 3S+2T+2Lo and the solo 3S in all the practices (including her FS runthrough that morning as you can see here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFoLh-036Ls&feature=youtu.be), so I don't understand why she should have planned two 2Ss, she was just tired and made a couple of mistakes, that's all (she said in the press conference that after the first 3' she realized that she was really tired so that's probably why she did only the 2S)!

 

[SXTN]

Kostner's 3-3's during practice:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrKEB763d7U

Great attempts!

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

I'd like to know where exactly jumps are being rewarded at all and where this season has any competition been won with respectable jump like 3/3 or lutz and flip and have a SP and LP with those things? NWR?

Cup of Russia comes close, I suppose. Gold landed a 3-3 (with the flip) along with a lutz in the short. She lost to Kira Korpi, who landed a 3-3 and both the lutz and flip in the long.

the doubles didn't seem like accidents. watching it there is no hint of accident

Which demonstrates just how intelligent her blade has become, but if we look at her Italian National Championship LP, indeed we see that they were.

This is where things are going- mao can do underrotated triples and win 2ith 3 triples over sp and lp and kostner can do 4 and fill up two jumping passes with double salchows in addition to her double axels.

Well, no. After all, Eliza Tukatmisheva doubled her lutz in the short and didn't do the flip; Adelina singled the flip in her long and didn't do a fully rotated triple triple. If she does one fully rotated 3-3 OR doubles the flip, she wins.

 

[let`s talk]

The Russian girls did even better on the tech side but they were so MANY MANY MILES behind Caro in artistry that they could never have come close to narrowing the gap that much.

No, dear. It's more like Caro did better on maturity and edges but she was so many miles away from the TES ability of Russian babies that she could never come close to secure the gap.

Anyone who thinks Tut skated like a champion here is lying, delusional or straight-up stupid.

I am not sure what exactly people want to gain with this kind of statement: "If you don't think like me, you are idiots". Lame insults speaks about the lack of argument and poor debating skills.

Just how strong do you think the Italian fed is?

Don Ottavia. Serioulsy, the issue with Caro is that she has been pulled by PCS more than ANY other skater in Ladies. The chart that I was refering too is from this source where the poster made similar charts on all top ladies: http://yunaforum.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=4376 . And no one could come even close to Caro, not even Mao who is a better performer, and who is often critized for winning with 4 triples or somesuch. It really doesn't make any sense to challenge a way more difficult prog if it's not rewarded as it should be.

 

[shine]

And no one could come even close to Caro, not even Mao who is a better performer, and who is often critized for winning with 4 triples or somesuch. It really doesn't make any sense to challenge a way more difficult prog if it's not rewarded as it should be.

Nor does she have the skating skills or whole-body choreography of Kostner .

 

[figureskate]

Kostner did deserve pcs she received and she was by far the best in this section. If pcs wouldn't make any difference to different skaters, why including them in the score? Let's decide to give marks just based on tes, or maybe just on jumps without even counting URs or wrong edges. I don't really understand why you always complain on someone's victory. Of course Liza gave a terrific technical performance and got rewarded for this on tes as it should be, but was very slow and skated almost her entire routine on the centre of the rink. People seem to forget that skating from board to board, covering the whole rink, getting high speed requires a lot of energy from the skaters and not anybody can do it. However Liza would have won if she hadn't collected 7 points of gap from kostner in the short program and her amazing free skate wasn't enough.
I was so impressed by Sotnikova as I thought she would have felt the pressure a lot more but she held on! I hope she can fix her wrong edge problem on the lutz, otherwise she will always get negative goes on her triple-triple combo. And she was nicely rewarded by the judges with a 64 poinst pcs

 

[Icey]

Choreographically, Kostner's Bolero is boring, common place; her performance, lackluster. Her skate lacks the required tension that was evident even in Kwan's version. Compared to Kwan's version, it seems empty. Is this really the version she plans to skate at World's? And why the telegraphing of that first jump? It seemed almost as if she had had a lapse and thought she was skating under 6.0.

 

[FlattFan]

No, dear. It's more like Caro did better on maturity and edges but she was so many miles away from the TES ability of Russian babies that she could never come close to secure the gap.
I am not sure what exactly people want to gain with this kind of statement: "If you don't think like me, you are idiots". Lame insults speaks about the lack of argument and poor debating skills.

No, dear. The Russian babies beat her TES by a few points in the LP, adelina beat her by 2. So many miles away from the TES ability? Really? Talk about stupidity.

Don Ottavia. Serioulsy, the issue with Caro is that she has been pulled by PCS more than ANY other skater in Ladies. The chart that I was refering too is from this source where the poster made similar charts on all top ladies: http://yunaforum.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=4376 . And no one could come even close to Caro, not even Mao who is a better performer, and who is often critized for winning with 4 triples or somesuch. It really doesn't make any sense to challenge a way more difficult prog if it's not rewarded as it should be.

Mao has weaker jumps, skating skills, and performance skill. A weaker skater overall. I love Mao dearly, but this is wrong.

lutz, Caro >>> Mao
flip, Caro >> Mao
loop, Caro >> Mao (she can execute the loop with preceding steps, exit transitions effortlessly)
salchow, Caro >> Mao
toe, Caro >> mao (she can do 3T3T, 3F3T easily)

It's insane to think Mao is a better skater.

 

[shine]

I was so impressed by Sotnikova as I thought she would have felt the pressure a lot more but she held on! I hope she can fix her wrong edge problem on the lutz, otherwise she will always get negative goes on her triple-triple combo. And she was nicely rewarded by the judges with a 64 poinst pcs

I don't understand why Sotnikova insists on doing 3lutz-3 combos. Her flutz is quite persistent and obvious. Can't she use 3f instead? Or is she just attempting them and hoping that the caller wouldn't catch it everytime?

Choreographically, Kostner's Bolero is boring, common place; her performance, lackluster. Her skate lacks the required tension that was evident even in Kwan's version. Compared to Kwan's version, it seems empty. Is this really the version she plans to skate at World's? And why the telegraphing of that first jump? It seemed almost as if she had had a lapse and thought she was skating under 6.0.

This whole post is so wrong I don't know where to begin. Kwan's Bolero? Are you kidding me?? If there's an empty program, it's Kwan's Bolero. I think we were watching two different programs. Yep.