2013 Junior Worlds Ladies FS

[silverlake22]

Yes exactly and that is why I'm not surprised Anna beat Sam, sure her jumps are not the prettiest and a few of her landings were out of control, but watching her skate, I figured she was still going to get a pretty decent score because she was getting all the way around on her triples. Anyways I think Pogo was nervous here, she doesn't have the best exits to her jumps but they usually are more secure than today. I admire her fight, like how she added the 3 jump combo at the end after missing the 2t on the 2a-3t combo. She is very gutsy and knows how to work COP. I think the carriage will get better as she settles into her body. I really do think she has grown since earlier in the season though, in the warm up she looked very tall next to Elena, Satoko, and even Julia, this and her fight and ability to rotate the jumps consistently make me think she might actually have a decent future in skating. Plus not being a superstar might play in her favor from a pressure and confidence standpoint. I agree she doesn't need all the makeup but I actually think she still looks really pretty with it. In a couple years I think she could be a total knockout like Korpi.

Anyways while I am upset for Sam I am happy for Anna as well and don't think she was overscored. Out of credit to Anna she did go for really hard content, didn't give up, and made everything count as seen by her adding in the 3 jump program late. I think the fact that the way the current scoring system works is a technicality that makes one's heart break for skaters like Samantha, or Mirai at Nationals, but I still think that Anna's accomplishments here should not be undermined just because Samantha delivered a program that looked a lot nicer to the viewer without slomo cams. Also I think Anna's PCS benefitted from skating after Miyahara. I don't think they were out of line but I think had she skated after someone else they may have been lower, but after Satoko she must have looked rather mature and powerful merely due to the size difference and so her gawkyness didn't stand out as much. Anyways she reminds me of Shelepen but with better basics and without the headcase problems of always bombing the SP!

 

[Eislauf]

I'm going to assume that you're laughing with me and not at me (or at the silliness of my post), so I'll take the opportunity to elaborate on this a bit further .

What people usually call "classical" music is so varied in scope, theme and style that you could probably find a piece of music somewhere to fit any skater. Why so may coaches/choreographers insist on using the same music over and over again without any regard for the skater's personality/body lines/interpretation ability is beyond me. So many girls are expected to fit this image of the pretty princess skating to soft classical music, as if this is the only acceptable form of female artistry. I have nothing against ice princess types if this interpretation style fits their personality and their skating - but I wonder who in her team watched Rika Hongo skate and then said "Let's have her do Swan Lake, that's a terrific idea." Or why Julia Lipnitskaia, who even mentioned in an interview that she doesn't like ballet, is skating to ballet music, of all things. Wouldn't it be better if they were given music that they could actually enjoy skating to and that would match their personalities?

As a side note, a good example of lesser used classical music that is a wonderful fit for the skater is Kiira Korpi's "Girl with the flaxen hair" SP. Great job by all involved.

I'm laughing at your spot-on description of how many coaches seem to think that 'classical music' is only one CD of Carmen/Rachmaninoff/Tchaikovsky. I too am mystified by the same music being used ad nauseum. Why would anybody want to skate to Carmen ever again??? And no more swans - please - white or black! I suspect the music is chosen because it's 'safe'; it's been tried and tested and is also associated with former world-class skating performances. It won't offend the judges.

 

[Leonardo]

Like I said above, the component side of judging is broken, which has become abundantly clear by now. No matter how idealistic and reasonable the program component concept is, if it cannot be consistent, correctly, and fairly applied, it is worse than nonexistent, because it creates glaring hypocrisy and breeds cynicism. The way judges and ISU are treating program components nowadays makes a mockery of the skaters, coaches, and choreographers who work very hard to uphold and strive for good skating --- which is not limited to good jumping.

My feelings exactly. And I also agree with silverlake22. The ur jumps are penalized twice, and that's not fair.

 

[yuki]

I'm laughing at your spot-on description of how many coaches seem to think that 'classical music' is only one CD of Carmen/Rachmaninoff/Tchaikovsky. I too am mystified by the same music being used ad nauseum. Why would anybody want to skate to Carmen ever again??? And no more swans - please - white or black! I suspect the music is chosen because it's 'safe'; it's been tried and tested and is also associated with former world-class skating performances. It won't offend the judges.

I don't really have a problem with the overused music per se; after all, it's the skater that makes the music stand out and not the other way around - if the performance is lacking, any music will just be background music. It bothers me when it's really obvious that the music and the skater simply don't connect. I agree that the judges are also to blame; coaches choose tried-and-true music because they think that's what the judges want to hear and the judges have listened to the same pieces so many times that they actually expect to hear them.

 

[mikiandorocks]

Congrats to all the medalists. Honestly, I don't think there's a polemic about the third place result. It's a pity that Samantha couldn't get the bronze but in the end it was fair (at least in my eyes).
I am very happy to see Julia skating well and I like her attitude. Interesting to see how things will turn out in the russian team after Sochi.
One skater that really impressed me was Jenni Saarinen of Finland.

 

[Ziggy]

In the last group of skaters, Miyahara's FS has the most transitions and details to match the nuance in the music. There is hardly any crossover or stroking in the entire program, and the speed was nearly all generated from edge and knee work. Also it is a perfect example of balanced bi-directional skating with nearly the same amount of clockwise and counterclockwise skating, something that none of the other last group girls did, and apparently none of the judges gave a toss about or even noticed.

This!

Possibly? Mao Asada and Mirai Nagasu also get decent to good height on jumps but also have major UR issues, and the two of them definitely rotate slowly.

They don't get as much height as Cesario did tonight.

The 70% for URs is a step in the right direction but they need to make it so that URed jumps can still get +GOE, if they did this skaters like Sam, Mirai, and Kanako would benefit and you wouldn't see skaters like Anna be able to take advantage of being able to rotate difficult jump combinations while getting away with sloppy execution, because the messy landings aren't costing her any more in terms of GOE than a skater who underrotates their triples.

Check the rulebook.

Underrotated jumps can get +GOE.

And poor quality landings should be reflected on the GOE as well.

Judges should be taking into account all positive and negative aspects before deciding on the GOE.

What people usually call "classical" music is so varied in scope, theme and style that you could probably find a piece of music somewhere to fit any skater. Why so may coaches/choreographers insist on using the same music over and over again without any regard for the skater's personality/body lines/interpretation ability is beyond me. So many girls are expected to fit this image of the pretty princess skating to soft classical music, as if this is the only acceptable form of female artistry. I have nothing against ice princess types if this interpretation style fits their personality and their skating - but I wonder who in her team watched Rika Hongo skate and then said "Let's have her do Swan Lake, that's a terrific idea." Or why Julia Lipnitskaia, who even mentioned in an interview that she doesn't like ballet, is skating to ballet music, of all things. Wouldn't it be better if they were given music that they could actually enjoy skating to and that would match their personalities?

Hongo's team really was deranged with that choice. This is so frustrating because those skaters could have shown interesting programs, if they were given appropriate material. Stop with the overused, dreary classical pieces unless it's something that a skater feels, connects with and actually wants to skate to!

My feelings exactly. And I also agree with silverlake22. The ur jumps are penalized twice, and that's not fair.

They aren't penalised twice. One thing simply corresponds to another. Which is fair because a cheated landing is not a clean landing.

 

[Mao88]

LADIES FREE SKATE - RESULT & VIDEOS (Updated)

1. Elena RADIONOVA (RUS) - 169.71 Free Skate
2. Julia LIPNITSKAIA (RUS) - 165.67 Free Skate
3. Anna POGORILAYA (RUS) - 160.32 Free Skate
4. Samantha CESARIO (USA) - 154.55 Free Skate
5. Courtney HICKS (USA) - 152.92 Free Skate
6. Gabrielle DALEMAN (CAN) - 149.39 Free Skate
7. Satoko MIYAHARA (JPN) - 147.42 Free Skate
8. Alaine CHARTRAND (CAN) - 144.38 Free Skate
9. Rika HONGO (JPN) - 142.62 Free Skate
10. Nathalie WEINZIERL (GER) - 139.10 Free Skate
11. Yasmin SIRAJ (USA) - 139.08 Free Skate
12. So Youn PARK (KOR) - 135.42 Free Skate
13. Laurine LECAVELIER (FRA) - 131.25 Free Skate
14. Jenni SAARINEN (FIN) - 129.81 Free Skate
15. Ziquan ZHAO (CHN) - 126.11 Free Skate
16. Brooklee HAN (AUS) - 125.62 Free Skate

 

[chuckm]

Satoko Miyahara has some nice presentation qualities, but let's face it: she has tiny, tiny jumps and her ice coverage is small. Those are qualities that impact the Skating Skills mark, and with it, the rest of the components.

I'm not always the greatest identifier of URs, but most of Satoko's jumps looked short to me. I do enjoy her skating, but was not surprised that she was marked as low as she was.

One thing about Hicks' FS that annoyed me: her second jump was clearly a 2s, not a 3s attempt: she simply doubled the jump. But the TC called it as 3s<<. I thought the tech team was supposed to give the skater the benefit of the doubt, but that did not happen in this case. Overall, I'd say the TC was overzealous. Very few skaters got a Seasons Best total score in this competition, which is rather unusual for JW. At 2012 JW, eleven ladies earned new total SB; only six did in 2013---and three of those were skaters who didn't have a previous total SB (i.e, had not skated at a JGP, GP or ISU Championship this season).

 

[Ziggy]

The technical panel was extremely strict here, yes.

Trivia: This was the first time I have seen a skater get no value on the step sequence because of not fully utilising the ice surface.

Satoko Miyahara has some nice presentation qualities, but let's face it: she has tiny, tiny jumps and her ice coverage is small. Those are qualities that impact the Skating Skills mark, and with it, the rest of the components.

Jumps shouldn't impact the Skating Skills mark at all and I didn't think her ice coverage was bad. When I've seen her skate live, she had decent speed and was covering the ice well.

One thing about Hicks' FS that annoyed me: her second jump was clearly a 2s, not a 3s attempt: she simply doubled the jump. But the TC called it as 3s<<.

She did almost 2.5 revolutions and landed forwards on two feet. So clearly a 3s attempt.

 

[lavender]

Japan ladies senior and junior overall have he best programs other than a few like Kostner. Still love Satoko but I pray for her little jumps to grow and rotate as she grows.

LOL...normally love my European commentators but I don't know why he thought Elena's pcs should match her tech and everyone should be standing. Lovely girl and I really like her attitude. I like her edges which are pretty good but her arms are all over the place but definitely deserved her win.

Quote Originally Posted by bigsisjiejie View Post
Another Russian lady poor music choice and poor choreo. Anna P. looks completely out of control there. Rather sloppy.

This and it's not just in juniors. Adelina is one of my favs but I haven't really enjoyed her programs for 2 years now.

 

[TT_Fin]

Thank you for the videos. Very impressive skating for the young Russian girls.

Jenni Saarinen was only 3rd in the Nationals, so we should have future in ladies. She got the place there because she skated so well in the Nordics. I had little wishes that she could make it to top10. It was not so impossible thouhgt, but not this year.

 

[ks777]

I think it only gets harder for Miyahara to be able to rotate her jumps fully when she gets bigger and taller. Her jumps(almost all of them) looked under-rotated and very small.

 

[ser22]

Miyahara's FS choreographer Kenji Miyamoto.

 

[sky_fly20]

this is probably the strictest tech panel we've had in junior worlds
too bad though the organizing was also terrible

 

[Skater Boy]

Hmm well 4UR for Samantha explains a lot. Here I was thinking the US might sweep like the men; didn't see this happening. Lipnskaiya did not look good here - jump wise or artistically. I had hope for her at Sochi. I really think the Russian ladies have a long way to go in juniors and seniors. Gracie GoLD, mAO, yUNA AND cAROLINA AND WAGNER all look pretty good now.

 

[sky_fly20]

Hmm well 4UR for Samantha explains a lot. Here I was thinking the US might sweep like the men; didn't see this happening. Lipnskaiya did not look good here - jump wise or artistically. I had hope for her at Sochi. I really think the Russian ladies have a long way to go in juniors and seniors. Gracie GoLD, mAO, yUNA AND cAROLINA AND WAGNER all look pretty good now.

Siraj was never a contender even Cesario only had an outside shot
only Hicks was prretender for a medal here along with Miyahara
This was actually Julia's best skate since Finlandia other than her 2S and Lips

of course it will be hard in Seniors especially worlds were a possible Mao, Yuna, Carolina or Mao, Yuna , Osmond is almost a lock

 

[ser22]

The Japanese technical specialist will not be home praising.:disapp:

 

[yuki]

The Japanese technical specialist will not be home praising.:disapp:

Maybe he's a big fan of Shin Amano .

 

[seniorita]

Wow great results, I really like Radionova for her age and Pogorilaya!

I really think the Russian ladies have a long way to go in juniors and seniors. Gracie GoLD, mAO, yUNA AND cAROLINA AND WAGNER all look pretty good now.

Gracie Gold and Osmond havent really accomplished that much to be considered so far above the senior Russian girls, I would have said the opposite.

 

[ser22]

Maybe he's a big fan of Shin Amano .

:agree: