2013 Junior Worlds Men FS

[mskater93]

This comment: "I love the expression you have on the ice, the carriage you have on the ice," Farris said to Brown. "When you step on the ice, you grab everybody; everybody stares at you."

THIS is what there is about Jason that I don't see in other skaters on the World stage at any level other than Takahashi right now. It's just not something that can be taught and it's something he's ALWAYS had. Abbott, Chan, Hanyu, Fernandez, Amodio, Miner, Dornbush, Gachinski, Aaron, Song, Han, Farris, et al - none of those guys have that even though they are wonderful skaters in their own rights. Jason has just needed the balance of the technical goods. He's addressed the 3A deficiency, now he needs to get the 4S/4T settled.

 

[skatel80]

Congrats to the US men, that is an astonishimg achievement! Josh and Jason were spectacular as usual (especially jason this time ) well done to Shotaro Omori aswell, he took me by complete surprise, such a lovely skater! what really stands out about these men is that each of them is a wonderful well rounded skater it is great to see:agree:

 

[Aesthetics]

This comment: "I love the expression you have on the ice, the carriage you have on the ice," Farris said to Brown. "When you step on the ice, you grab everybody; everybody stares at you."

THIS is what there is about Jason that I don't see in other skaters on the World stage at any level other than Takahashi right now. It's just not something that can be taught and it's something he's ALWAYS had. Abbott, Chan, Hanyu, Fernandez, Amodio, Miner, Dornbush, Gachinski, Aaron, Song, Han, Farris, et al - none of those guys have that even though they are wonderful skaters in their own rights. Jason has just needed the balance of the technical goods. He's addressed the 3A deficiency, now he needs to get the 4S/4T settled.

I have to disagree with you. Although I think Jason is good artistically and he’s better than many men including Farris, Fernandez, Amodio, etc., I don’t think he’s better than that long list of skaters you listed. I’ve seen almost everyone live on your list. At least I think Abbott and Hanyu are artistically better than Jason and they currently have more versatile style than Jason. I also find Takahashi’s style is similar to Jason, but I don’t think Takahashi is artistically better than Abbott and Hanyu for example. If anything, both Abbott’s and Hanyu’s programs are better than Takahashi this season IMO.

 

[sky_fly20]

I really like Mikhail Kolyada (he's like a very young Mikhail Baryshnikov). Too bad that his sp was chacked.

There's also something about Kolyada that reminds me of Ilia Kulik (perhaps the rosy cheeks and the athleticism). Of course, Kolyada is fairly young and still developing, and he needs to gain more consistency on his jumps, etc., but I really enjoy his lyrical style.

Kolyada is already 18, I don't see any future.

 

[mskater93]

I didn't say artistically better, I quoted the statement that when he's on the ice, "he grabs your attention" which is totally different. He has a charisma that attracts people more like Taka does and Chris Bowman did (but not in such a destructive manner) where when Taka is on the ice, even with mistakes, you HAVE to watch. When Bowman was on the ice you HAD to watch. When Jason is on the ice you HAVE to watch. Many of the other elite men right now, when they make mistakes, it just kills the desire.

 

[Aesthetics]

I’ve watched Jason and Takahashi when they were perfect, and I’ve watched Abbott and Hanyu when they made mistakes. Abbott and Hanyu grabbed my attention more than Jason did. Of course, when Jason and Farris skated on the same day, Jason was the one who grabbed my attention more. But still not as much attention as Abbott and Hanyu. Takahashi also grabbed my attention with his good programs last season, but this season not that much.

 

[Mrs. P]

When I saw Jeremy live at Skate America, I definitely appreciated the flow, transitions and beauty of his programs, but to be honest he didn't really grab my attention. It could be is because I wasn't totally on board with his Spy program and he made a lot of errors in the FS. Jeremy definitely has the artistry and well-constructed programs, but the performance itself didn't really strike me.

At that same competition, Hanyu definitely grabbed my attention more in the SP, but not so much in the FS when he made all those mistakes. Actually to me, as quiet and subtle as he is, Kozuka had the most compelling performances.

I haven't been lucky to see Jaosn live yet, so I can't compare.

 

[silverlake22]

Kolyada is already 18, I don't see any future.

You know, when Miner, Aaron, and Fernandez were 18 they weren't exactly dominating junior internationals and putting up huge scores either...things can change. Kolyada is a good jumper and he already has 3a, a very nice one at that, I don't see any reason he can't get a quad and if he continues to improve artistically why he can't have a future in the sport. There are a lot of nice qualities in his skating. Not everyone is the full package at 18, and he just turned 18 a few weeks ago anyways.

I agree Brown grabs your attention, to me he is a lot like Weir, the artistry is there in spades, I understand why he has so many ubers though I personally am not in love with his style, though I recognize he is obviously very talented in terms of flexibility and his ability to interpret the music. His transitions are also really impressive, his TR marks should be higher than most of the top senior men internationally honestly. I think he should experiment with other choreographers though...his programs scream Ward and while he executes those programs very convincingly, idk, I'd like to see him work with someone else to prove he's not a one trick pony. If Jason could have a program to the Matrix and pull it off convincingly, well, I think that would really show something, and I'd probably have to become an uber.

 

[Aesthetics]

I didn’t watch Skate America, so thanks for your comments on that, Mrs. P. I recommend Abbott’s Exogenesis program. When I watched that program live, he made mistakes. But oh my he not only grabbed my attention at the competition, but he left me thinking about his performance afterwards. Jason is really good, but I don’t think any of his programs was that special.

As for Hanyu, Skate America lp was probably his worst skate so far. Anyone having THAT MANY mistakes would not grab any attention. But when he made several mistakes at NHK or popped jumps at 4CC he was still very watchable. He is really an “attention grabber.” Even at official practices with elite athletes including Takahashi, Kozuka, Chan practicing at the same time, I totally could not take my eyes off Hanyu, from beginning to end of the practice.

I agree Brown grabs your attention, to me he is a lot like Weir, the artistry is there in spades, I understand why he has so many ubers though I personally am not in love with his style, though I recognize he is obviously very talented in terms of flexibility and his ability to interpret the music.

IMO Jason is already better than Weir. If he and Weir skate on the same day, then I would watch Jason more than Weir. And flexibility is not Jason’s only merit. Take Martinez for example. Watching him live he was more flexible than Jason, but I definitely prefer watching Jason than Martinez.

 

[Jammers]

I don't think Hanyu is more artistic then Jason.

 

[Mrs. P]

I think he should experiment with other choreographers though...his programs scream Ward and while he executes those programs very convincingly, idk, I'd like to see him work with someone else to prove he's not a one trick pony. If Jason could have a program to the Matrix and pull it off convincingly, well, I think that would really show something, and I'd probably have to become an uber.

How are Ward's programs one-trick ponies? In the last four years, Jason's skated to swing/rockability music, ballet, a sci-fi movie soundtrack (Flow Like Water), tango electronica (Bajofondo Tango Club),Romantic classical music (Liszt), opera and Prince!

I mean that's a pretty good diversity of music if you ask me.

Besides, The Matrix is Brian Joubert's baby

 

[lakeside]

He is really an “attention grabber.” Even at official practices with elite athletes including Takahashi, Kozuka, Chan practicing at the same time, I totally could not take my eyes off Hanyu, from beginning to end of the practice.

Yes, Yuzru is the best at practices! I just wish he will skate equally well at competition someday.

I don't think Hanyu is more artistic then Jason.

I think Yuzru is more artistic than Jason is. Yuzru is also more flexible and has better spins than Jason.

 

[dorispulaski]

Mrs. P, you've got to add rap to Jason's range: Here's his Jr Worlds EX to MC Hammer U Can't Touch This

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IhtBwWxjJU

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

I didn't say artistically better, I quoted the statement that when he's on the ice, "he grabs your attention" which is totally different. He has a charisma that attracts people more like Taka does and Chris Bowman did (but not in such a destructive manner) where when Taka is on the ice, even with mistakes, you HAVE to watch. When Bowman was on the ice you HAD to watch. When Jason is on the ice you HAVE to watch. Many of the other elite men right now, when they make mistakes, it just kills the desire.

I'm just starting to see what everyone sees in Brown, but he's never really grabbed my attention before. I remember when everyone was going ape over his Turandot routine at Nationals 2011 and I was in the dark as to it's massive appeal. While I'm beginning to respect what he does, I still don't see that aspect you highligh.

 

[Mrs. P]

Mrs. P, you've got to add rap to Jason's range: Here's his Jr Worlds EX to MC Hammer U Can't Touch This

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IhtBwWxjJU

Oh yeah! I was just counting competitive programs in my range, but I love that exhibition. He's hilarious!

 

[Mrs. P]

I'm just starting to see what everyone sees in Brown, but he's never really grabbed my attention before. I remember when everyone was going ape over his Turandot routine at Nationals 2011 and I was in the dark as to it's massive appeal. While I'm beginning to respect what he does, I still don't see that aspect you highligh.

Perhaps Doris can explain since she was there? As I noted earlier, I watched that program the other day and it just struck me how eager people to get off their seats -- the moment he did his last three jump combo the crowd just went crazy. The applause was deafening.

IP, I'm just glad you understand why some stan for Mr. Brown.

I've never seen the him live though. I hope to someday.

 

[Serious Business]

If we're talking about that attention-grabbing star quality, no current skater has it more than Yuzuru Hanyu. That's not to say that he is the best skater skating nowadays, or the most artistic. It's just a quality that comes from a combination of swagger (you need buckets of it) and larger than life moves/abilities. Most skaters at that level have the latter, but the swag, no one has it more than Yuzuru these days. And in that department, he's the direct heir to Evgeny Plushenko, who demanded your attention with every move. It's the paradoxical combination of supreme confidence and the desperate need for attention.

It is one way to create a memorable skater. But it is by no means the only way.

That is not to say that Jason Brown doesn't have swag. Which, of course he does, or he wouldn't be in this performance sport. I don't get the sense that his extension and flexibility, as showy as they are, are part of a bravura performance. To me, it's more lyrical and intuitive. It's like for Jason, the moves just have to go there and make those shapes to fit the grooves of the music. It's slightly less of a look-at-me quality, and more of a feel-with-me thing.

*None of this is meant to imply the two are directly comparable right now. Despite their similar ages, Yuzuru and Jason are at entirely different levels in their respective careers. Yuzuru is now the favorite going into senior worlds, while Jason hasn't even competed internationally as a senior. Yuzuru regularly lands the quad toe~triple axel in his exhibition programs. Jason only just started landing the triple axel in competition. But here's hoping one day Jason will catch up, and I can watch two of my favorite skaters compete one right after the other!

 

[Moment]

I don't think Hanyu is more artistic then Jason.

Wholly agree.

 

[dinakt]

If we're talking about that attention-grabbing star quality, no current skater has it more than Yuzuru Hanyu. That's not to say that he is the best skater skating nowadays, or the most artistic. It's just a quality that comes from a combination of swagger (you need buckets of it) and larger than life moves/abilities. Most skaters at that level have the latter, but the swag, no one has it more than Yuzuru these days. And in that department, he's the direct heir to Evgeny Plushenko, who demanded your attention with every move. It's the paradoxical combination of supreme confidence and the desperate need for attention.

It is one way to create a memorable skater. But it is by no means the only way.

That is not to say that Jason Brown doesn't have swag. Which, of course he does, or he wouldn't be in this performance sport. I don't get the sense that his extension and flexibility, as showy as they are, are part of a bravura performance. To me, it's more lyrical and intuitive. It's like for Jason, the moves just have to go there and make those shapes to fit the grooves of the music. It's slightly less of a look-at-me quality, and more of a feel-with-me thing.

*None of this is meant to imply the two are directly comparable right now. Despite their similar ages, Yuzuru and Jason are at entirely different levels in their respective careers. Yuzuru is now the favorite going into senior worlds, while Jason hasn't even competed internationally as a senior. Yuzuru regularly lands the quad toe~triple axel in his exhibition programs. Jason only just started landing the triple axel in competition. But here's hoping one day Jason will catch up, and I can watch two of my favorite skaters compete one right after the other!

That, to me, is a very acute observation, and the reason I personally prefer Brown to Hanyu.
In very basic terms, Hanyu, to me, is an heir to Plushenko while Brown is an heir to Lambiel ( easy charm and connection to the audience, innovation, versatility, great SS, but all the while serving the music).
It is trickier to place Farris. Not as avantgarde or extravert, he is musical and clearly thoughful, and his "form"- the line, the extension- is very beautiful. To me, he is something of a throwback to 70ies and 80ies, and I mean it in the best way; something about the cleanliness of every line.
Really exciting new generation; can't wait to see how they develop.

 

[let`s talk]

If anything, both Abbott’s and Hanyu’s programs are better than Takahashi this season IMO.

You are within your rights to like the skating of "an old looking man" as some countrymen called Abbot's FS on this board. You are surely withing your rights to enjoy the skating of an exhausted oversweaty kid who can barely finish his progs without running of gas. Having weird unhealthy tastes is no crime, to some extend. What is wrong is when judges bring this perverted enjoyment as some standards that kills the positiveness of this sport and empties already empty arenas. Hanyu is a heir of Plushenko? That's just a stupid statement. When did Plu could barely finish his progs? There is nothing even to talk about.

Both Jason and Farris are 18yo who can't make a senior national team. So they stick to skate in juniors as long as they could. It's true not only about team US but pretty much all other major teams that used to be suppliers of future stars (Russia, Japan). While Russia did great in Ladies, Japan had fiasco in both Singles. Which means one and the same thing- there won't be any super star in Japan after Sochi (Mao with Dai retirements) and the popularity of fs in J-fandom will gradualy start reducing, getting back to 10 years ago level much faster than anyone thinks. Ms. Hashimoto should be proud of herself.