2013 Junior Worlds Men FS

[dinakt]

In the post above I was discussing (speculating, rather, on) various performance styles, nothing more. Whether Plushenko had or had not stamina problems is irrelevant in the context.
As for Japanese star dimming after 2014- who knows? We might not yet know about some 8-year-old prodigy who might be the next Big Thing just ready for 2022

 

[karne]

Both Jason and Farris are 18yo who can't make a senior national team. So they stick to skate in juniors as long as they could.

Now that's not fair. It was the USFSA's wish that Joshua and Jason stay Junior this season. Whether you accept it or not there is some depth to the US lineup; Max Aaron didn't have any Senior GPs this season and suddenly he's the National champion. Joshua was the pewter medallist, hardly a poor showing, and he was offered the choice of 4CCs or Junior Worlds. He chose Junior Worlds because, I imagine, he wanted to win that title and achieve what he was so close to last year. Had he gone to 4CCs I'm sure he would have put in a respectable showing.

The US is not of a mind to push its young skaters too far, too fast. They are barely 18 - Jason in December, Joshua at the beginning of January - so they have plenty of time. Russia and Japan might push their 17 year olds to go Senior. That's their business. Rightly or wrongly the USFSA determined that Joshua and Jason would stay Junior. Next year they will both unquestionably be Seniors.

 

[dorispulaski]

A good deal of what age & point in a career to bring a skater into Seniors is a function not only of the skater's ability; there's the nature of the current rules and far too inadequate number of skaters at GP's. Josh was only going to get one GP if he had competed as a Senior this year. And invites depend partially on the season's best list and the ISU rankings list. Staying in Jrs this season, where he would get 2 JGPs, the JGPF, and Jr Worlds would yield him much more chances to rise in the rankings than a single GP and a hope (but no guarantee) of 4CC's, which is all he would have gotten in Seniors.

According to Jason's post LP interview, he is awaiting what USFSA tells him to do about Seniors next year. He is in Josh's position from last year, but without a quad. USFSA may tell him to stay Junior one more year. They don't need Jason in Juniors-Omori looks very good, and is a year younger than Josh & Jason. I see Jason in limbo; the only one guaranteed GP, the fact that he will slip out of the top 24 in rankings post Worlds, almost surely, USFSA may keep him in Juniors one more year to work on his quad.

let's talk, I wouldn't rule out Shoma Uno stepping up to a fine level of performance for Japan in a couple years. Also, I hope Kozuka keeps competing!
I am not ready to give up on the Japanese men.

In the ladies, there is more worry. Satoko Miyahara is a lovely performer, but her jumps are just not there. She reminds me of Caroline Zhang before Zhang grew, beautiful and a lovely skater, but not enough power.

 

[sky_fly20]

Both Jason and Farris are 18yo who can't make a senior national team. So they stick to skate in juniors as long as they could. It's true not only about team US but pretty much all other major teams that used to be suppliers of future stars (Russia, Japan). While Russia did great in Ladies, Japan had fiasco in both Singles. Which means one and the same thing- there won't be any super star in Japan after Sochi (Mao with Dai retirements) and the popularity of fs in J-fandom will gradualy start reducing, getting back to 10 years ago level much faster than anyone thinks. Ms. Hashimoto should be proud of herself.

hmm. there is Shoma and Hanyu for the next quad, future stars and still very young
the ladies there is Kanako though it might take a few years to get the depth back once Mao retires but it wont decline FS in Japan

 

[lakeside]

In the post above I was discussing (speculating, rather, on) various performance styles, nothing more. Whether Plushenko had or had not stamina problems is irrelevant in the context.

I really admire Plushenko and think he’s one of the best skaters in fs history. I also think his artistry is as good as, if not better than, Lambiel. Maybe they have different artistic styles, but both are very artistic. However, I think the stamina problem has to do with the COP demand for transitions. Nowadays even Joshua Farris has more transitions than Plushenko did (I’m not saying Joshua’s jumps and artistry can match those of Plushenko, just that Joshua has more transitions). The transitions in Yuzru’s programs are at an even higher level – he and Patrick have most transitions in their programs. Plus, Yuzru also has asthma, so I think he’s already very amazing at managing his stamina.

A good deal of what age & point in a career to bring a skater into Seniors is a function not only of the skater's ability; there's the nature of the current rules and far too inadequate number of skaters at GP's. Josh was only going to get one GP if he had competed as a Senior this year. And invites depend partially on the season's best list and the ISU rankings list. Staying in Jrs this season, where he would get 2 JGPs, the JGPF, and Jr Worlds would yield him much more chances to rise in the rankings than a single GP and a hope (but no guarantee) of 4CC's, which is all he would have gotten in Seniors.

According to Jason's post LP interview, he is awaiting what USFSA tells him to do about Seniors next year. He is in Josh's position from last year, but without a quad. USFSA may tell him to stay Junior one more year. They don't need Jason in Juniors-Omori looks very good, and is a year younger than Josh & Jason. I see Jason in limbo; the only one guaranteed GP, the fact that he will slip out of the top 24 in rankings post Worlds, almost surely, USFSA may keep him in Juniors one more year to work on his quad.

I agree with your analysis, but at the same time I also think someone like Kovtun is so much luckier to go to Worlds when he didn’t even make the podium at Russian nationals. Had he skated at the Junior Worlds, he could have lost to Joshua and Jason. But he got that opportunity to go to Worlds that Joshua and Jason dreamed of but would not get… Oh well, best wishes to Joshua and Jason in the new season.

let's talk, I wouldn't rule out Shomo Uno stepping up to a fine level of performance for Japan in a couple years. Also, I hope Kozuka keeps competing!
I am not ready to give up on the Japanese men.

I also wish Kozuka keeps skating after Sochi. Kozuka’s only one year older than Machida but is a much better skater than him. However, I don’t see bright future in Shoma Uno. He’s already 15 but doesn’t even have 3F3T or 3Lz3T, let alone 3A. People used to worry about Jason’s jumps, but Jason’s jumps have always been better and now he also has the 3A. Uno OTOH… I don’t know if he’ll ever have the big jumps.

 

[dorispulaski]

I like Uno's performance ability

And he hasn't grown yet. With the guys, growing is not as much of a problem as with the ladies. When the guys grow, they get more power to offset the bad effects of a larger rotational moment of inertia; so some good, some bad. 15 is pretty young. One problem Jason had vs. Josh is that Jason grew later than Josh. Jason's jumps are much better than they were 2 years ago, since he grew. I'm hoping for the same for Uno.

 

[lakeside]

Ok, we’ll see. Right now Uno doesn’t have the jumps, but maybe he grows late like Jason and will get the jumps someday. And does anyone know what’s going wrong with Tanaka? Two years ago many people said he would be one of the skaters to watch, but now he’s not doing well at all.

 

[let`s talk]

As for Japanese star dimming after 2014- who knows? We might not yet know about some 8-year-old prodigy who might be the next Big Thing just ready for 2022

Oh my god. The 2022 Olympics have nothing to do with after Sochi-2014 that I was talking about, unless you agree to take 8-years break for a J-fandom.

Now that's not fair. It was the USFSA's wish that Joshua and Jason stay Junior this season. Whether you accept it or not there is some depth to the US lineup; Max Aaron didn't have any Senior GPs this season and suddenly he's the National champion. Joshua was the pewter medallist, hardly a poor showing, and he was offered the choice of 4CCs or Junior Worlds. He chose Junior Worlds because, I imagine, he wanted to win that title and achieve what he was so close to last year. Had he gone to 4CCs I'm sure he would have put in a respectable showing.

The US is not of a mind to push its young skaters too far, too fast. They are barely 18 - Jason in December, Joshua at the beginning of January - so they have plenty of time. Russia and Japan might push their 17 year olds to go Senior. That's their business. Rightly or wrongly the USFSA determined that Joshua and Jason would stay Junior. Next year they will both unquestionably be Seniors.

The choice of Joshua is very understandable- he had zero chances in Senior level, just like Brown, which only confirms what I said- they had to stick in Junior as much as they could beause they realize that they have no chances in bigger games. And it's not like USFSA had a better choice to send someone else to Milan. I don't see any internationally competitive depth in the US field. They curently have only two spots for Worlds in senior and no one knows how many they will bring for the next season from London. And I'm not sure at all that both Js will make "unquestionably" a senior team next year. Adam was twice JWC at adult age 18-19yo, now he can't make a senior national team. As for "push their 17yo", you don't need to do it for a real talent. Plu, Yag, Dai became Junior WC at 15-16yo, who was pushing them? They won and moved to a senior level. That is what junior events are for- give teens the chance. In the current junior fields, partly thanks to the policy of some federations to send "adults juniors" there, we have an odd situation: 19yo competiting with 13yo, where the youngest ones can be potential future stars, while the oldest ones are those who failed in seniors and using their last chance in juniors.

 

[let`s talk]

hmm. there is Shoma and Hanyu for the next quad, future stars and still very young

Sochi will be next year. I see no way that Shoma would take Dai's place of the team captain and cash cow. The same about Hanyu. Thanks to Orser he is losing free youtube viewers drastically this season, and you want people pay 20,000 yen per a ticket. Moreover, wasn't it Yuzu super ubers who sent him in retirement after Sochi? Yeah....

Had he skated at the Junior Worlds, he could have lost to Joshua and Jason.

If your crystal ball said you so, than it's fine. In reality there is no grounds for such statement. Kovtun already beat both Js this GPF and would do it the same to those quadless adult juniors in Milan had he skated there.

 

[sky_fly20]

I also wish Kozuka keeps skating after Sochi. Kozuka’s only one year older than Machida but is a much better skater than him. However, I don’t see bright future in Shoma Uno. He’s already 15 but doesn’t even have 3F3T or 3Lz3T, let alone 3A. People used to worry about Jason’s jumps, but Jason’s jumps have always been better and now he also has the 3A. Uno OTOH… I don’t know if he’ll ever have the big jumps.

you do realize Uno is still petite right ?
he will still grow and he will have enough power on his jumps
his jumps are small but not microscopic small

 

[Mrs. P]

Golly, the way some people are taking here you would think that being 18-years-old means you're practically a senior citizen in skating!

Seriously though, I have no clue how the discussion evolved in this direction but neither Josh nor Jason need to be ashamed of being juniors at their age. Jason himself said he was aiming for 2018 and had a five-year-plan, so this is about the right trajectory to go. It would be awesome if he got a GP or two next season, but I don't think Jason or his coach are sweating it all that much. (I mean seriously this is Jason Brown were talking about here --- the guy doesn't let much get to him).

Regarding depth in the U.S. men: there is such -- but that's not the same thing as breadth. You have a long line of U.S. men who are at the elite level with a similar level of skill who could win at the national level on a given day, however their talent and skill isn't enough to get the results at Worlds they need for three spots (though I would love to be proven wrong! Compare that to a country like Spain or France where their top men are pretty safe because the men below them have far less technical/artistic ability.

 

[dorispulaski]

Rippon's a bad example of anything, since he won Jr Worlds twice with no triple axel. He still really doesn't have a triple axel.

At this point, Josh definitely has a triple axel, and a sometime quad.
Jason landed all three 3A's this time at Jr Worlds, and I am hoping will continue to have that jump. He may or may not get a quad. We will have to see. His chances in US seniors are looking a lot better than this time last year.

Neither of these guys is a Plushenko style jumping prodigy, but it is yet to be seen how far they can go on the senior scene.

Take a look at Javier as model rather than Plu. He is 22, 4 years older than both J's. He just won the Europeans and was 4th in the GPF. He might medal at Worlds. Or not.



Three seasons ago he was ninth at Europeans, and tenth at Worlds.
Four seasons ago he was twelfth at Worlds and eighth at Europeans.
Six years ago, he was thirteenth at Jr. Worlds (at 16)

The J's might indeed reach that level on the curve they are on now. Or not.

I seldom make any predictions about this stuff.

 

[Mrs. P]

Rippon's a bad example of anything, since he won Jr Worlds twice with no triple axel. He still really doesn't have a triple axel.

At this point, Josh definitely has a triple axel, and a sometime quad.
Jason landed all three 3A's this time at Jr Worlds, and I am hoping will continue to have that jump. He may or may not get a quad. We will have to see. His chances in US seniors are looking a lot better than this time last year.

Neither of these guys is a Plushenko style jumping prodigy, but it is yet to be seen how far they can go on the senior scene.

Take a look at Javier as model rather than Plu. He is 22, 4 years older than both J's. He just won the Europeans and was 4th in the GPF. He might medal at Worlds. Or not.



Three seasons ago he was ninth at Europeans, and tenth at Worlds.
Four seasons ago he was twelfth at Worlds and eighth at Europeans.
Six years ago, he was thirteenth at Jr. Worlds (at 16)

The J's might indeed reach that level on the curve they are on now. Or not.

I seldom make any predictions about this stuff.

You're probably right not to do so. There's no one-size-fits-all mold of a successful figure skating career. As you pointed out Doris, some are early prodigies (i.e. Plushenko, Chan, Hanyu) and others develop their career in a slow and steady manner (i.e. Miner, Abbott, Fernandez).

And also, as you have pointed in the past, Doris, some skaters are worth enjoying regardless of their career trajectory. Jonathan Cassar will retire having never medaled at Nationals, but I think a lot of people have enjoyed his presence over the years.

I think Jason and Josh will have their fans regardless of what happens, but my hope (and belief) is that they will do well in the long run.

As an aside, one thing going for Jason is that Kori is smart about not overworking his body. I guess before she was a coach her background was actually on the sports medicine side, so I think this will help Jason greatly as he's trying to develop a quad and incorporate it in his programs.

Also it's worth noting that Jason has gotten MORE flexible as he's grown/gets older. Just look at his half-bileman camel spin...the extension now compared to a few years back is incredible. Usually, skaters lose their flexibility as they get older, the fact Jason has been able to not only maintain that flexibility but even improve it indicates he's doing some good off-ice training.

Sorry this is sort of a stream of consciousness post....

 

[dorispulaski]

The thing that takes my breath away about Jason's half Biellmann is not the flexibility (at which Martinez is better), but the edge control that lets him do a change of edge on it in the SP I'm still not sure it's possible

 

[karne]

The choice of Joshua is very understandable- he had zero chances in Senior level, just like Brown, which only confirms what I said- they had to stick in Junior as much as they could beause they realize that they have no chances in bigger games.

....

In the current junior fields, partly thanks to the policy of some federations to send "adults juniors" there, we have an odd situation: 19yo competiting with 13yo, where the youngest ones can be potential future stars, while the oldest ones are those who failed in seniors and using their last chance in juniors.

You have GOT to be kidding me, right?! Joshua and Jason are nowhere near the status of "failed Seniors". They are extremely good Juniors who when it came down to it, were asked to stay in Juniors by the USFSA because they DID NOT HAVE ENOUGH GP ASSIGNMENTS TO GO AROUND IF THEY WENT SENIOR. Had Joshua gone Senior, he would have only got one GP (his previous Nationals result was too low), which not only is pointless, but would have damaged his WR. Staying Junior meant two JGPs and JGPF which is miles better for his ranking scores.

You are only making yourself look bad with such a stupid argument. Joshua is the pewter medallist in a US men's field that was pretty good. That's hardly failing.

As an aside, one thing going for Jason is that Kori is smart about not overworking his body. I guess before she was a coach her background was actually on the sports medicine side, so I think this will help Jason greatly as he's trying to develop a quad and incorporate it in his programs.

This does give me a lot of hope for his longevity. I have higher hopes for Joshua's longevity too now that he's away from Tom Z.

The thing that takes my breath away about Jason's half Biellmann is not the flexibility (at which Martinez is better), but the edge control that lets him do a change of edge on it in the SP I'm still not sure it's possible

it's quite unbelievable. He must have been working ridiculously hard on his flexibility to IMPROVE it as he gets older...that Y-spiral into the 3Lz is breathtaking!

 

[Mrs. P]

The thing that takes my breath away about Jason's half Biellmann is not the flexibility (at which Martinez is better), but the edge control that lets him do a change of edge on it in the SP I'm still not sure it's possible

Ah you mean this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzNdNORdiC0#t=01m55s

 

[Mrs. P]

You have GOT to be kidding me, right?! Joshua and Jason are nowhere near the status of "failed Seniors". They are extremely good Juniors who when it came down to it, were asked to stay in Juniors by the USFSA because they DID NOT HAVE ENOUGH GP ASSIGNMENTS TO GO AROUND IF THEY WENT SENIOR. Had Joshua gone Senior, he would have only got one GP (his previous Nationals result was too low), which not only is pointless, but would have damaged his WR. Staying Junior meant two JGPs and JGPF which is miles better for his ranking scores.

Also senior at the U.S. level =/= senior at the international level. The requirements to pass the senior free skate test is REALLY low, so that's why you have a lot of folks who compete at the senior level nationally but yet remain on the junior circuit internationally. Age limits also have a lot to do with that as well.

 

[silverlake22]

Rippon's a bad example of anything, since he won Jr Worlds twice with no triple axel. He still really doesn't have a triple axel.

At this point, Josh definitely has a triple axel, and a sometime quad.
Jason landed all three 3A's this time at Jr Worlds, and I am hoping will continue to have that jump. He may or may not get a quad. We will have to see. His chances in US seniors are looking a lot better than this time last year.

Neither of these guys is a Plushenko style jumping prodigy, but it is yet to be seen how far they can go on the senior scene.

Take a look at Javier as model rather than Plu. He is 22, 4 years older than both J's. He just won the Europeans and was 4th in the GPF. He might medal at Worlds. Or not.



Three seasons ago he was ninth at Europeans, and tenth at Worlds.
Four seasons ago he was twelfth at Worlds and eighth at Europeans.
Six years ago, he was thirteenth at Jr. Worlds (at 16)

The J's might indeed reach that level on the curve they are on now. Or not.

I seldom make any predictions about this stuff.

Rippon landed 3 triple axels the 2nd time he won JW IIRC. The first title he won without it, but in 2010 when he beat Brezina, he definitely landed 2 in his FS, and I think one in the SP as well. The fact that he has not progressed much since should not diminish what he accomplished a few years back.

Anyways, the Joshua and Jason situation is very different from Samantha because in the US, as a general rule, guys compete on the JGP until they age out, or perhaps the year before they age out, unless they are really spectacular. Dornbush competed on the JGP as a 19 year old in his last season of eligibility the year he won silver at Nats and went to Worlds, Ross was too old for JW when he first won bronze at Nationals in 2011 but had competed on the JGP the season before when he was 18/19, Armin moved up to seniors internationally the season before he aged out of ISU junior, but the way his birthday falls, he was still 18 for all of his final season (09-10) competing as a junior, Rippon competed at JW as a 18 and 19 year old and competed on the JGP the season he won his first title (so when he was 17 turning 18, the same age as Josh and Jason this season), Messing did JGP until he aged out, and Aaron even competed nationally as a junior during his last year of eligibility which was in 2011 when he went to JW and finished 5th (he was 18 at Nationals and 19 at JW that season, respectively) . Abbott was not competitive at the international level as a teenager, and even Lysacek competed at JW like 3 times right? so he wasn't rushed to seniors either.

In any event, for ladies in the US, most do not compete on the JGP/JW circuit until they age out, but for men, that is the general practice. Saying Josh had no hope to be competitive in seniors was the reason he competed on the JGP this season is silly - his SB from JW last year was about 1 point less than that of Rippon and Miner and way higher than Dornbush, he beat Denis Ten easily at JW and Ten then went on to beat Jeremy at Worlds with similar quality skates. I get that Farris couldn't hope to be a World medal contender on the senior stage this season, but to say he had no shot of being competitive in seniors when he was scoring as high as the men considered the 2nd and 3rd best in our country at junior competitions shows his chances were really as good as any of the senior guys in the US right now. And he was 4th at Nationals, beating Rippon who made the Worlds team last year and Dornbush who was 5th at 4CC. Yan who won bronze at 4CCs didn't even qualify for the JGPF this season and only beat Josh by half a point at JW last year.

Josh was not kept junior this season because he wasn't going to be competitive on the senior circuit, he was kept junior this season so Rippon, Miner, and Dornbush could each get 2 GPs because the USFS probably hoped one of them could qualify for the GPF and thought Evan and Johnny might be back too. That didn't happen and it seemed like USFS finally had a reality check, realized Josh was just as good as the rest of those guys but years younger, and didn't hold him down at Nationals so now he finished 4th, then was sent to JW which he won with a high score, and now hopefully he should get 2 GP assignments next season. Realistically he probably could have gotten 2 GPs this season if the USFS had really promoted him considering Gold with hardly any WS points got 2, but they didn't want to push for Josh to get 2 because of Evan and Johnny comebacks, none of Rippon, Dornbush, or Miner having 2 events gauranteed, and wanting to give SA to Razzano and Mahbanoozadeh. In hindset USFS may be kicking themselves for not promoting Farris and Aaron this season and favoring other skaters considering those two have consistently delivered this season while Rippon, Mahbanoozadeh, and Razzano have mostly flopped and Dornbush, Abbott, and Miner have not exactly been reliable either.

 

[Mrs. P]

Rippon landed 3 triple axels the 2nd time he won JW IIRC. The first title he won without it, but in 2010 when he beat Brezina, he definitely landed 2 in his FS, and I think one in the SP as well. The fact that he has not progressed much since should not diminish what he accomplished a few years back.

Anyways, the Joshua and Jason situation is very different from Samantha because in the US, as a general rule, guys compete on the JGP until they age out, or perhaps the year before they age out, unless they are really spectacular. Dornbush competed on the JGP as a 19 year old in his last season of eligibility the year he won silver at Nats and went to Worlds, Ross was too old for JW when he first won bronze at Nationals in 2011 but had competed on the JGP the season before when he was 18/19, Armin moved up to seniors internationally the season before he aged out of ISU junior, but the way his birthday falls, he was still 18 for all of his final season (09-10) competing as a junior, Rippon competed at JW as a 18 and 19 year old and competed on the JGP the season he won his first title (so when he was 17 turning 18, the same age as Josh and Jason this season), Messing did JGP until he aged out, and Aaron even competed nationally as a junior during his last year of eligibility which was in 2011 when he went to JW and finished 5th (he was 18 at Nationals and 19 at JW that season, respectively) . Abbott was not competitive at the international level as a teenager, and even Lysacek competed at JW like 3 times right? so he wasn't rushed to seniors either.

In any event, for ladies in the US, most do not compete on the JGP/JW circuit until they age out, but for men, that is the general practice. Saying Josh had no hope to be competitive in seniors was the reason he competed on the JGP this season is silly - his SB from JW last year was about 1 point less than that of Rippon and Miner and way higher than Dornbush, he beat Denis Ten easily at JW and Ten then went on to beat Jeremy at Worlds with similar quality skates. I get that Farris couldn't hope to be a World medal contender on the senior stage this season, but to say he had no shot of being competitive in seniors when he was scoring as high as the men considered the 2nd and 3rd best in our country at junior competitions shows his chances were really as good as any of the senior guys in the US right now. And he was 4th at Nationals, beating Rippon who made the Worlds team last year and Dornbush who was 5th at 4CC. Yan who won bronze at 4CCs didn't even qualify for the JGPF this season and only beat Josh by half a point at JW last year.

Josh was not kept junior this season because he wasn't going to be competitive on the senior circuit, he was kept junior this season so Rippon, Miner, and Dornbush could each get 2 GPs because the USFS probably hoped one of them could qualify for the GPF and thought Evan and Johnny might be back too. That didn't happen and it seemed like USFS finally had a reality check, realized Josh was just as good as the rest of those guys but years younger, and didn't hold him down at Nationals so now he finished 4th, then was sent to JW which he won with a high score, and now hopefully he should get 2 GP assignments next season. Realistically he probably could have gotten 2 GPs this season if the USFS had really promoted him considering Gold with hardly any WS points got 2, but they didn't want to push for Josh to get 2 because of Evan and Johnny comebacks, none of Rippon, Dornbush, or Miner having 2 events gauranteed, and wanting to give SA to Razzano and Mahbanoozadeh. In hindset USFS may be kicking themselves for not promoting Farris and Aaron this season and favoring other skaters considering those two have consistently delivered this season while Rippon, Mahbanoozadeh, and Razzano have mostly flopped and Dornbush, Abbott, and Miner have not exactly been reliable either.

Samantha in a "failed seniors" situation either. As I noted several times, Samantha has been sidelined two seasons in a row due to injuries. This is the first season in three years where she almost did a full season. And let's not forget that she dealt with injury this season as well (though not as severe) as well as Hurricane Sandy affecting her training time as well. It's really hard to say whether she would have been able to enter seniors internationally had she not dealt with those setbacks.

The ladies are in a depth-but-lacking-breadth situation as well. This year along you had a half-dozen gals who could have easily made the World team.

Also I doubt that USFSA is really kicking themselves that much over who they promoted (or not).

 

[silverlake22]

I don't think of a Samantha as a failed senior either, and as you point out her situation is unique because of being injured for Nationals two seasons in a row. But even with her injuries, the situation is still different because she is older than most of the other US girls competing on the JGP these days whereas Josh and Jason are not in the same boat because as I pointed out, most US men stay on the JGP until they age out.