2013 Worlds Ladies SP

[AlexRus]

I'm from Russia and, may be, don't understand americam situation.

So I can't understand - how Osmond may be ahead Wagner if both skate clean.

I've seen both videos. Wagner had her ordinary for this season skatng (when she skates clean), Osmond the same. Skating of both is so american.
I don't see great progress of Osmond in season (while I see her great progress from previous season).

Osmond's technical advantage is not so high (1.8 points of base value, both skated clean with good GOE) to overcome more mature Wagner's skating.

So why?

PS I don't love Wagner very much, but understand her level.

 

[prettykeys]

Yeah, you know what--I feel bad for what I said earlier on in the thread and take back what I said about how someone else should be above Ashley Wagner. After seeing the whole group, I have to say she did have a solid, polished SP that was nice to see. And that's why she's the American champ.

 

[Icey]

I wonder why Ashley left out the tano? Her goe's on her opening jump combo ranged from -1 to 2. Strange judging again.

 

[venlac]

This is like a skater under the old system complaining that she didn't get more 6.0's. (Did that ever happen?) I know that with ordinals, placements were more important, but really--69.97 is a very high score. If Yu Na has a complaint, it is that others were scored too high.

I want you just compare her score with other players. yuna's tes was only 1 point higher than osmond. And flip with "e" mark.
the front pages in this thread, there was a debate about yuna is underscored (many guesses were "maybe it's because she was in three group?")
Universal Sports, british euro also expressed doubts about the score. especially about the flip with the 'wrong edge'.

 

[ForeverFish]

I wonder why Ashley left out the tano? Her goe's on her opening jump combo ranged from -1 to 2. Strange judging again.

She didn't feel safe with the 3-3, so she probably left out the arms-overhead for the same reason. She said afterward that she was going for a safe, conservative skate--the FS will be the time to take risks because a missed element isn't worth as much. And she's still in fifth place, which isn't bad at all. At the very least, a clean Wagner should be able to move past Osmond and Murakami.

ETA: But I must say that the marks on Mao's 3A were even stranger, ranging from -2 to +2 GOE. The judges really didn't know what to do with that one.

 

[ks777]

I hope Ashley and Gold move up a little to secure 3 spots for the Olympics.

 

[kwanatic]

I was hoping for a better all around competition to be honest.

1. Yu-Na: I thought she was steady and solid. I figured the judges would have scored her in the 71-73 range but it's nice to see that they didn't get over-excited. I thought her score was fair. Her jumps looked excellent (including the 3F) but the spins were average. Still she executed everything well. However, I was less than thrilled with her performance; it felt flat and uninspired. I think had Mao and Carolina not had so many problems, they would have outscored her. That being said, it's clear she's mentally ready to compete even if she's not all-in emotionally (from outward appearances anyway). It's her title to lose...

2. Carolina: I think she was overscored a bit. I expected her score to be closer to Mao's; not Kanako's. I thought the second 3T was < but she got the benefit call on that. Other than that error, I thought she was lovely. The rest of her elements were solid and her program was incredible. I knew she'd outscore everyone on PCS despite others who insisted that would never happen. I agree with it: blade work, artistry, interpretation, choreography...she's the best. If she can pull a clean skate out of her pocket, she can win this...

3. Kanako: One of my two favorite performances...she was perfect! I wasn't sure about the 3-3 but she eeked it out and I'm glad she did. It was great to see her rise above the pressure and deliver such a clean and beautiful performance. I don't care what anyone says, she was fantastic! I don't know how she'll maintain her position after the FS but if she can skate solidly should place in the top 5 or 6.

4. Kaetlyn: The second of my favorite performances of the event. I always enjoy her SP. Her jumps were solid and she sold the program very well, and in front of a homecrowd too. The score seems decent to me so I have no complaints there. I thought she performed this better at SC (a bit more energy and freedom) but this was a highlight for me. She's not known for skating cleanly in the FS but a solid performance should be enough to help her maintain a top 5-6 position.

5. Ashley: It'd have been nice to see the 3-3 (warm-up reports said it looked great) but I don't blame her for playing it safe. She's in the final group and that was probably her goal going in. Given the mistakes of all of the other competitors, a clean easier program was better than a more difficult sloppy one. John Nicks is a smart man and good for Ashley for executing well. She lost a few levels on spins but I think she should be proud of herself. She's in great position to make a run at the podium now.

6. Mao: I was so happy she nailed the 3A. 2-foot, schmo-foot. She went for it, rotated it and landed it. Seeing as she was the only one who did it, I'm glad the judges rewarded her for it rather than penalizing her for not doing it 100% perfectly. It's not like she got +2s and+3s across the board. The +GOE only added 0.14 to the score, so I was fine with that. I knew that 3F was < and when she popped the 3L...*sigh*. I think she got nervous after landing the 3A and lost focus. She can comeback in the FS but it's a long shot. She'd have to hit on nearly everything...

7. Akiko: She needed to be 100% clean and she was unable to do that. She can move up with a good FS which she's done several times this season...

8. Adelina: I'm glad she held herself together but she needed to be clean as well...

9. Gracie: Not a complete meltdown but it's obvious she still doesn't have a good grasp on her nerves. She can leapfrog a lot of people with a great FS but that has only happened once this season and I'm not holding my breath for it to happen again...

10. Viktoria: I was suprised! If she'd rotated that 3T she may have been in the 61-63 range!


Yu-Na's score is good but she's not so far out in front that no one can catch her. I still say it's b/w Yu-Na, Carolina and Mao. Yu-Na needs a mostly clean skate and she will win...Carolina will need to be great with no major errors...Mao will need to hit the 3A cleanly and the 2A-3T to catch up (I seriously don't see the 3F-3L getting ratified) so gold might be tough to reach but her goal now should be just getting onto the podium. Ashley is in an excellent position to move up.

Hopefully we'll see some better skating in the FS...hopefully.

 

[Jammers]

Gracie needs to put her head down and just go for it and not worry about placements. If she skates like she can that will take care of itself.

 

[R.D.]

Wagner lucked out here - she wasn't so fortunate last year, but she will still need to deliver in the FS and I think she will need at least the 2A/3T if she wants to move up to 3rd. For once I want to see her just throw caution to the wind and go all out.

 

[ForeverFish]

Wagner lucked out here - she wasn't so fortunate last year, but she will still need to deliver in the FS and I think she will need at least the 2A/3T if she wants to move up to 3rd. For once I want to see her just throw caution to the wind and go all out.

From what she said after the SP, it sounds like she will--she got into the final group, so now's her time to shine. (And, hopefully, win 3 spots back with the help of Gracie Gold's jumping clinic.)

 

[R.D.]

Gracie needs to put her head down and just go for it and not worry about placements. If she skates like she can that will take care of itself.

Yes...a solid (if not perfect) FS is essential

 

[R.D.]

From what she said after the SP, it sounds like she will--she got into the final group, so now's her time to shine. (And, hopefully, win 3 spots back with the help of Gracie Gold's jumping clinic.)

I did not hear (or read) what she said after the SP besides her tweet...got a link by any chance?

Edit: She's in the last group, yes...but she is first up. With a really strong skate she can put pressure on the contenders.

 

[ForeverFish]

I did not hear (or read) what she said after the SP besides her tweet...got a link by any chance?

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...gner-gracie-gold-world-championships/1988393/

"After a clean, but safe program, Wagner said she put herself within 'fighting distance' of a medal with a score of 63.98. Instead of attempting a triple-triple combination, she went with the triple-double since so much is on the line. In the long program, she plans to skate aggressively to keep up with the big guns."

There was also another interview where Ashley said that Nicks told her before she started to skate how she felt safest. She didn't feel safe going into the planned 3-3, so she doubled the second toe loop.

 

[ForeverFish]

I did not hear (or read) what she said after the SP besides her tweet...got a link by any chance?

Edit: She's in the last group, yes...but she is first up. With a really strong skate she can put pressure on the contenders.

I think Ashley will do better to skate first--she tends to lose focus when she skates last or close to (a la GPF, US Nationals). I don't think Kim will be feeling any pressure on Saturday night, but for the other four in the group, anything can happen.

 

[YunaBliss]

I was hoping for a better all around competition to be honest.

2. Carolina: I think she was overscored a bit. I expected her score to be closer to Mao's; not Kanako's. I thought the second 3T was < but she got the benefit call on that. Other than that error, I thought she was lovely. The rest of her elements were solid and her program was incredible. I knew she'd outscore everyone on PCS despite others who insisted that would never happen. I agree with it: blade work, artistry, interpretation, choreography...she's the best. If she can pull a clean skate out of her pocket, she can win this...

OK. Really, I want to TRY to understand why people think Kostner has good artistry, interpretation and choreography. Because I really don't see it.

Here is Kostner's SP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5suwKlI9ZB4

Can you tell me which part specifically? Do you mean 1:56? Or 2:07? Please show me.

 

[prettykeys]

OK. Really, I want to TRY to understand why people think Kostner has good artistry, interpretation and choreography. Because I really don't see it.

Here is Kostner's SP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5suwKlI9ZB4

Can you tell me which part specifically? Do you mean 1:56? Or 2:07? Please show me.

ROFL!

I think Carolina has excellent interpretative/artistic abilities but your pointed questions make me laugh...because I blame Lori for those exaggerated instances! And it's just too funny.

 

[jenaj]

I want you just compare her score with other players. yuna's tes was only 1 point higher than osmond. And flip with "e" mark.
the front pages in this thread, there was a debate about yuna is underscored (many guesses were "maybe it's because she was in three group?")
Universal Sports, british euro also expressed doubts about the score. especially about the flip with the 'wrong edge'.

Yes, others were over-scored. Yu Na shouldn't be complaining. She is in first place with a very good score. If she skates clean, no one can catch her. Even if she makes a mistake like popping a solo triple into a double, she should still win. She controls her own destiny.

 

[Fruit Loops]

OK. Really, I want to TRY to understand why people think Kostner has good artistry, interpretation and choreography. Because I really don't see it.

Here is Kostner's SP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5suwKlI9ZB4

Can you tell me which part specifically? Do you mean 1:56? Or 2:07? Please show me.

Maybe it's unfair to highlight the bad to make a larger point but these moments also capture my at Carolina's reputation for great artistry. I'm ready to admit I'm most likely the one who is "out to lunch" on this one but I just don't get it. I've just learned to accept judges love her so I'm not too bothered by her placement though I think the judges would have been better off putting her in top 5. Though I would think a fall should have put her closer to 10th compared to everyone else but that is just me. I don't hate her. I love her speed and watching her land her jumps is amazing. I just don't see the artistry.

 

[Icey]

Wagner lucked out here - she wasn't so fortunate last year, but she will still need to deliver in the FS and I think she will need at least the 2A/3T if she wants to move up to 3rd. For once I want to see her just throw caution to the wind and go all out.

Strangely that is the way she skated when she first appeared on the national scene and one of the things I liked most about her, but no so much anymore imo.

 

[kwanatic]

OK. Really, I want to TRY to understand why people think Kostner has good artistry, interpretation and choreography. Because I really don't see it.

Here is Kostner's SP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5suwKlI9ZB4

Can you tell me which part specifically? Do you mean 1:56? Or 2:07? Please show me.

You have to set aside whatever feelings you have regarding her and just listen to the music and watch what she's doing. There's a rise and fall in the program (mood, intensity...expand and contract) that she reflects on the ice with her movements. It's not so much about hitting a beat b/c anyone can do that. Gracie's program hits many accents on the music throughout...however her delivery of it leaves me yawning. Why? It looks rehearsed and thought out and there's no other connection to the music or movement.

Carolina's movements are effortless and organic. She flows extremely well in her movements so much so that it doesn't look like "choreography." What's more, the music is part of the program instead of just background noise. There's great attention to detail and the music she picks isn't always easy to skate. It takes a special skater to make a difficult piece of music work. Add that to her effortless speed, edging, gorgeous lines, etc. and she is a remarkable skater.

The jump difficulty isn't her forte but I've learned to appreciate her for what she does well. Two years ago I couldn't stand Carolina...but I get her now. Not everyone will though...

To me, she's the best in that regard. Not to say that others aren't great...but her programs along with her delivery set her ahead of the bunch most of the time.