- Joined
- Sep 22, 2010
I can't imagine Tukt having set that kind of goal for herself, but if Mishin was expecting her to beat Yuna, then 1) he's crazy and 2) no wonder she did rather poorly relative to expectations.
2013 Worlds Ladies FS
- Thread starter vera01
- Start date
I can't imagine Tukt having set that kind of goal for herself, but if Mishin was expecting her to beat Yuna, then 1) he's crazy and 2) no wonder she did rather poorly relative to expectations.
Mishin alwas tells not that he thinks, but that (as he thinks) is better to tell.
It is not so good.
But he prefers to show himself crazy, but not to harm his skaters. It is good, I believe.
Au contraire. I think people mistake her musicality in the first half as lax and non-existent because it's not overtly emotive. Ballet really is more about arm movements and lyricism and not necessarily about facial expressions (just think if you are watching it live, you see the movements not the 'acting'. As far as interpreting the music, Mao's playing the part of Odette...she's introverted and for the most part- always ponderous and shy. And then of course you see the contrast in the second half of the program with the Coda section, which overall offers a great balance of light and shade.
This tends to be the case with most of her programs but her musicality is better seen in her exhibitions. Chopin's Ballade, Jupiter, Por Una...the list goes on. Tat's choice sometimes can be a little too grandiose like her Vancouver programs and she can't really play into it as much as maybe Kim playing a Bond Girl or some generic typecast Carmen. Asada tends to be more attuned to just moving with the music and it's much more highlighted in contrast to the others who may be skating to soundtracks, etc. That's just my opinion of course
This tends to be the case with most of her programs but her musicality is better seen in her exhibitions. Chopin's Ballade, Jupiter, Por Una...the list goes on. Tat's choice sometimes can be a little too grandiose like her Vancouver programs and she can't really play into it as much as maybe Kim playing a Bond Girl or some generic typecast Carmen. Asada tends to be more attuned to just moving with the music and it's much more highlighted in contrast to the others who may be skating to soundtracks, etc. That's just my opinion of course
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2012
Welcome!Au contraire. I think people mistake her musicality in the first half as lax and non-existent because it's not overtly emotive. Ballet really is more about arm movements and lyricism and not necessarily about facial expressions (just think if you are watching it live, you see the movements not the 'acting'. As far as interpreting the music, Mao's playing the part of Odette...she's introverted and for the most part- always ponderous and shy. And then of course you see the contrast in the second half of the program with the Coda section, which overall offers a great balance of light and shade.
This tends to be the case with most of her programs but her musicality is better seen in her exhibitions. Chopin's Ballade, Jupiter, Por Una...the list goes on. Tat's choice sometimes can be a little too grandiose like her Vancouver programs and she can't really play into it as much as maybe Kim playing a Bond Girl or some generic typecast Carmen. Asada tends to be more attuned to just moving with the music and it's much more highlighted in contrast to the others who may be skating to soundtracks, etc. That's just my opinion of course
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
Au contraire. I think people mistake her musicality in the first half as lax and non-existent because it's not overtly emotive. Ballet really is more about arm movements and lyricism and not necessarily about facial expressions (just think if you are watching it live, you see the movements not the 'acting'. As far as interpreting the music, Mao's playing the part of Odette...she's introverted and for the most part- always ponderous and shy. And then of course you see the contrast in the second half of the program with the Coda section, which overall offers a great balance of light and shade.
This tends to be the case with most of her programs but her musicality is better seen in her exhibitions. Chopin's Ballade, Jupiter, Por Una...the list goes on. Tat's choice sometimes can be a little too grandiose like her Vancouver programs and she can't really play into it as much as maybe Kim playing a Bond Girl or some generic typecast Carmen. Asada tends to be more attuned to just moving with the music and it's much more highlighted in contrast to the others who may be skating to soundtracks, etc. That's just my opinion of course
TheCzar, Welcome to GoldenSkate! Post long & often!
Thank you!
I'm not an expert, but I think Carolina should do the same 3-3 in the SP and the FS.
Her 3T+3T was so obviously URed that I don't understand how she managed to get credit for it. 3F+3T was rotated, but almost a quarter short of rotation. Maybe attempting the same combo will help her focus and, thus the consistency.
Her 3T+3T was so obviously URed that I don't understand how she managed to get credit for it. 3F+3T was rotated, but almost a quarter short of rotation. Maybe attempting the same combo will help her focus and, thus the consistency.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
Great idea!
I believe that is her plan for the upcoming season. She hasn't done 3f3t in competition since Worlds 2010 (and even before that, she hadn't done it almost the entire 2009/2010 season), so re-introducing it was a big challenge for her I guess. I think they just wanted to play it save in the short program to still do 3t3t and slowly get her used to the 3f3t again in the FP. Ironically, it didn't help her this season as she fell on the 3t3t in both Europeans and Worlds, but landed her 3f3t successfully both times she attempted it at Challenge Cup and Worlds.
I strongly believe this was her preparation to re-introduce 3f3t into the SP. I also saw her successfully practice 3lz3t and 3sal3t this season so she is basically able to add the 3t to any jump.
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
I think the 3T-3T in the FS wouldn't make sense since it makes more sense to save her repeated jumps for her 3S and 3L in her FS. And her consistency of the 3-3 in the SP has been pretty bad this season, but at least she continues to go for it. I think it would make more sense for Kostner to go for 3F-2T in the SP come Olympics time, if she wants to have a shot at securing silver. She should realise that even with a perfect 3Z-3T/2F/2A Yu Na, and a fall on her 3-3, she was still only 3 points shy of her after the SP. Makes more sense for her to go clean and guarantee a medal. You can bet that Gracie, Liza and Sotnikova will be more consistent by Sochi in the SP/LP so Kostner can't really afford the errors.
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2009
My reasoning goes the other way. Kostner can fall on a 3-3 attempt and still be just 3-points shy of a clean Kim.
Might as well go for glory with a 3F-3T in both SP and LP. Because if she does land it, it's breathtaking and her marks should go through the roof.
No they could clearly have been like zijun li or Gracie gold and had done better. Top 10 was not good enough. Li placed 4th in the fs and so could sonikova and tuktamisheva but their worlds were awful. They were very poor and both of them need to get it together and find their inner zijun li's. They want to skate well right? I'm sure they don't want to skate like they did at London worlds ever again in their lives so it's up to them to skate well and all external stuff should be just nonsense to them.
Adelina skated better than Zijun in the SP(no falls from her). And both Adelina and Liza skated better at Euros then Zijun did at 4 Continents. Liza made the GPF this season, for the second time in their career. London 2012 was just a competition, period. Zijun may very well struggle next season. People forget that both here and at 4 Continents she blew her SP. And Gracie? This is the first competition she didn't bomb in one of the phases(SP or LP). Skate Canada was a disaster, Rostelecom Cup was better but her LP was not very good, at nationals she bombed the SP, at 4 Continents she bombed the LP. I am sure neither Liza and Adelina are happy with how they skated but they were not as bad as people are saying. At least Liza landed 6 triples in the LP, two if them being 3Lz. And Adelina didn't melt down like everyone expected but she has UR problems which she has to fix
Adelina and Liza would have been 5th and 6th with their scores at 2012 Worlds. I am sure people would not write them off with that kind of result.
It's different to be at euros and 4cc and do bad or good and be at worlds and be bad or good. Being good at a worlds is better than being good and medaling at euros. Being bad at 4cc is who cares compared to placing in 4th in the fs at worlds. That's where Adelina and liza should have been based on all their talent!! But they didn't deliver. I am not writing them off for any future success but their placement at worlds was no kind of success and medaling at euros does not make up for their doing poorly at worlds. It says something about Gracie and zijun that they both delivered so well at worlds - tHe most important event of a season.
Li may struggle in the future but at least in her career she delivered a great performance at a senior worlds which for all of their amazing success Liza and Adelina haven't done yet! They may do so in the future but I doubt they will get thereif people say "yay you made the top 10! Good for you Liza and adleina!!" and don't point out how Liza did no 3/3 and had a level 1 spin in the fs and bombed the sp and Adelina didn't do a 3 jump combo because she attached it to her worst jump which she does 2 of for some reason - the flip.
Why? Except for the obvious reason that worlds were a qualifying event for Olympics. Euros are almost as prestigious as worlds (at least in Europe) and 4CC is also starting to be a very important event now that North America and Asia are dominating the sport. I don't see how being 7th at worlds is better than medaling at Euros to be honest, no matter how good Zijun was in the LP. Liza's season was better than Zijun Li's, and I might say Adelina's too. Liza placed 4th and second in the GP events(she was really good in TEB), a good showing in the GPF, winning Russian Nationals, having one of the best LP of the season at Euros and placing in top 10 at worlds. Adelina medaled in Nebelhorn Trophy, Skate America and Europeans. Zijun was 4th and 5th at her GP events, 5th in four continents and 7th at worlds. She really had an amazing LP in London and ended her season on a high note but that doesn't take away the fact that she didn't medal in any big international competition so far. She did better than the Russian ladies at worlds but a 7th place overall is not that much better than 9th and 10th IMO. I do admit that Li was somehow underscored in 4CC and her consistency is getting much much better than the Russian ladies so far. Her performance here made the judges finally rewarding her properly and this could benefit her next season.
As to Gracie, this is her first really good competition as a senior skater. She held it together very well and surpassed my expectations. I hope she does it again next season.
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
And yes, it is an absurd goal to say Elizaveta was intending to beat Kim, but obviously we need to read between the lines. Mishin is suggesting to the Russian media that she *can* beat Kim. This essentially is intended to boost her stock within the Russian ranks, and emphasize that Tuktamysheva intends to win Sochi -- even though it's unlikely that she will. Even if Plushenko's surgery didn't go well, I doubt he would tell the Russian media that it didn't. It's all about optics and what people think is the situation, not so much what is actually going on. It's the same as coaches or skaters who tell the media they are training quads and triple axels. Bourne and Kraatz had the same attitude going into Nagano - told the Canadian media they're challenging for gold - even though we all knew that they didn't stand a chance. All propaganda, but obviously you don't want to sell yourself short either. It's like when at US nationals you see the ambitious "intended" jump layout laden with 3-3 combos and then the skater obviously never meant to do any of that difficulty. You really can't tell until the skater hits the ice.
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2010
I agree and it is not like she is much more consistent with the 3T-3T than the 3F-3T anyway. She always was quite consistent with the latter.
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2013
Well, we agree on some things. I think they're both technically capable. They didn't skate their best. They could have bright futures. A medal at Europeans does not compensate for a poor outing at WC.
What they need to figure out is why the poor showing... what caused it? I think it was nerves, and I think it was the higher expectations placed on them.
I also think that's why Gracie and Zijun skated better. Fewer expectations placed on them this season, because they hadn't shown consistency.
Now... will they back it up now that the expectations have risen? How will the Russian girls respond to disappointment on a big stage? I suppose we'll find out.
FWIW, I still think they did well for their first outing, and they both had an admirable season overall.
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
Kudos to Kostner for landing the 3F-3T and securing silver with it, but that's also the first time we've seen her attempt+cleanly execute it in quite a while. Like Mao's 3A at 4CC which was clean but flawed at Worlds. it's probably not super consistent yet, which is understandable since she's just getting it back and it's a really difficult combination (in general). It'll be interesting to see if Kostner gets mileage on that combination in her Grand Prix events when she can afford to err but still place high.
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2012
I think Tukt and Sotnikova will both have something to say at WTT next week, where there's considerably less pressure. They probably knew, going into Worlds, that it was up to the two of them to secure Russia's 3 Olympic spots--Alena Leonova sure couldn't do it. And that's a ridiculous amount of expectation to put on the shoulders of sixteen-year-old rookies. At least Gracie Gold had Ashley Wagner to lean on, and Zijun Li simply had a marvelous FS because she had no pressure to deliver three spots for China (though, I might add, only placed a bare two points ahead of Gracie's mistake-sprinkled FS).
ITA about Europeans. We need to remember that if Kiira Korpi had been present and healthy, either Tukt or Sotnikova may not have medalled at all. The competition at this year's Russian Nationals will be absolutely brutal--with Lipnitskaia and Pogorilaya coming of age, Leonova attempting to regain some dignity, and Tukt and Sotnikova fighting for the chance to prove themselves again, it'll be one hell of a show.
