G/B had only a double twist for much of the season and sometimes a weak triple twist, whereas the other Russian pairs got a lot of points for theirs thanks to their greater height differences. If Gainetdinova finds a taller partner (and lands her jumps), she could win the Russian junior title. There's no point for Russia to invest in pairs with only double jumps. To be successful in seniors, pairs now need two different triples but most Russian juniors haven't proven they can land even one kind. They're not as strong as you think. They're just benefiting from the weakness of the junior pairs field (which included the weakness of the G/B partnership). The situation could change a lot next season depending on who Kamilla partners with.
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- Thread starter sky_fly20
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The junior pair field is not that weak, and if the other Russian junior teams managed to get the results they had this season, they can't be as weak as you are making them. I am not saying that they are the best of the best, when they have to go to seniors it will take a few years for them to push through (the same way as it take any other pair), but they are not as weak as you are making them.
And in regards to needing two different triples - did you see the senior protocols from worlds? Now seriously, how many pairs actually landed two different triples? A lot of pairs are still using one triple (either on its own or in combination with double) and double axel (one or two in sequence), or triple-double-double and double axel. The jumps are important, but so are all other pairs elements. Having only jumps is not enough, whereas having average jumps (one triple and double axel) in combination with great pairs elements can put you in the 5-10 place at senior worlds.
Russia is not interested in pairs who can place 5-10 at senior Worlds. They want pairs who have the technical ability to take over from V/T and fight for World and Olympic gold medals. None of the Russian juniors have shown they have that potential, except perhaps Gainetdinova and Tarasova/Morozov. The other Russian juniors could become another Bazarova/Larionov at best.
Well, if after this Olympics S/S and V/T retire, Bazarova/Larionov will very likely be on top of the podium at Europeans, and possibly fighting for podium at worlds, so I am sure that Russia doesn't mind having another team with the potential of Bazarova/Larionov. Besides, I think you are jumping a bit ahead if you see Gainetdinova as having potential to be at the top in seniors. At the moment her results in juniors were a bit disappointing - 7th and 4th at JGP, 8th at junior worlds. The previous season 11th at junior worlds. Not very good results for a Russian junior pair.
In comparison - the other Russian junior teams (the ones who according to you have no potential):
Lina Fedorova / Maxim Miroshkin: 2nd and 1st at JGP, 1st at JGPF, 3rd at junior worlds
Evgania Tarasova / Vladimir Morozov: 5th at JGP, 5th at junior worlds
Vasilisa Davankova / Andrei Deputat: 2nd and 3rd at JGP, 2nd at JGPF
Maria Vygalova / Egor Zakroev: 3rd and 2nd at JGP, 3rd at JGPF
Gainetdinova doesn't compete on her own but in a pair. G/B weren't a strong enough partnership but with another partner, she could have much better results.
Note that despite G/B's weak twist, G/B easily beat V/Z and T/M in the long program at Russian nationals and they came very close to F/M's long program score. If Gainetdinova skates as well as she did at Russian nationals in the long and has a taller partner with whom she can make up the lost ground on the pair elements, do you seriously think the judges will give the title to a pair like F/M?
She could present the "whole package" if she skates to her ability. The other Russian juniors, except T/M, cannot even if they skate to the best of their ability. So in a "everyone skates their best" scenario, the battle will be between her and T/M.
Note that despite G/B's weak twist, G/B easily beat V/Z and T/M in the long program at Russian nationals and they came very close to F/M's long program score. If Gainetdinova skates as well as she did at Russian nationals in the long and has a taller partner with whom she can make up the lost ground on the pair elements, do you seriously think the judges will give the title to a pair like F/M?
She could present the "whole package" if she skates to her ability. The other Russian juniors, except T/M, cannot even if they skate to the best of their ability. So in a "everyone skates their best" scenario, the battle will be between her and T/M.
Volosozhar is 26, Trankov 29.
Kavaguti 31, Smirnov 28.
Bazarova 20, Larionov 26.
Only one of top Russian pairs is young enough to think about Olympics-2018.
Fourth pair - Stolbova 21, Klimov 22, young, but not very young.
So Russia is interested in good young pairs. Pairs, which for now are not world's leaders, but can become leaders at 3-5 years. I.e. Junior pairs.
I agree that Gainetdinova doesn't compete on her own and a lot of depend on the partner she would have. However, saying that "If Gainetdinova skates as well as she did at Russian nationals in the long", that's a big IF. You could say that about any pair. If F/M, d/D and V/Z skated at Russian nationals the same way as they did at JGPF, Gainetdinova wouldn't finish third at junior nationals and wouldn't be sent to junior worlds. Using 'IF' can go both ways.
Don't get me wrong, I do think she is talented, but so are all the other young Russian pairs. I just don't think she is more talented than they are. She has jumps, they have wow factor on their pairs elements. You are assuming that getting another partner would automatically mean that she would suddenly get the wow factor on her pairs elements, but in reality she would have to learn those things and it could take her as much time as the other pairs would need for learning the second triple jump. Bottom line is, the other pairs are missing something and Gainetdinova is missing something. She is not any better than they are.
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2003
WOW!
Thanks for posting this video. Absolutly amaizing talent, very musical. So far the best what I have seen from Russia in ladies on a junior level, better then Radionova, Sotnikova and Sahanovich. BUT she needs to be consistent on all jumps and have nerves of the steel to skate clean. imho
I will keep watching her
I wouldn't worry about her consistency. Look above who branded her inconsistent? sky_fly20 usually doesn't know what he/she is talking about.
She looks very promising---but she is a young prepubescent girl. It's easy to get those jumps around when the body is straight up-and-down, without hips.
We heard the same raves about Tuktamysheva several years back, and she hasn't quite lived up to the early hype, partly because she is currently struggling with growth and development issues.
We heard the same raves about Tuktamysheva several years back, and she hasn't quite lived up to the early hype, partly because she is currently struggling with growth and development issues.
Not sure if you noticed, but the majority of the skaters at junior level are young and prepubescent.
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2003
consistency is the key for winning, would be ashamed if someone with such natural talent will be written off by RF
some kind of training on jumps at Mishin's camp would be helpfull, not because her technical coach not as good as Mishin, but different approach.
But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't be enjoying their skating now, does it!
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Tukyamysheva is doing really well with her jumps if you watched her LP from ECH and WCH, she is only lucking senior experience (SP results). Her base value for TES in LP at Euro was higher then Kim at Worlds, and one point lower at Worlds. She needs to be marked properly on her jumps (+2,+3 GOE) and PCS, no one seams to be bothered with this.
Tukyamysheva is doing really well with her jumps if you watched her LP from ECH and WCH, she is only lucking senior experience (SP results). Her base value for TES in LP at Euro was higher then Kim at Worlds, and one point lower at Worlds. She needs to be marked properly on her jumps (+2,+3 GOE) and PCS, no one seams to be bothered with this.
Posters who have seen Liza skate live have commented on how small her jumps are and how limited her ice coverage is ---that's why her GOE is low. Her PCS scores are low for the same reason. Liza skated a clean FS, yet her PCS scores were lower than skaters who made mistakes (Sotnikova, Osmond, Gold, Suzuki). Liza's ice coverage was small when she was a junior, but the theory was that was because she was so tiny. However, she's grown quite a bit since then and there's been no improvement in her stroking and her ability to cover the entire ice surface, especially for the FS.
I have seen her live. Her jumps definitely are not small. They are not Adelina or Karolina's size, but they are normal, average jumps. Not any smaller than anyone else in the field.
About the ice coverage - it was definitely an issue a year ago; this year it was much better. I have see her at Europeans and I can tell you that it is not true that "there's been no improvement in her stroking and her ability to cover the entire ice surface, especially for the FS."
Well, Hanca, apparently the judges don't agree with you.
When Liza was a junior, her ice coverage was tiny even for a junior. Her coverage may be somewhat better now than it was back then, but she is skating senior now, and her ice coverage isn't what it should be at this level. That affects her SS score, and in turn all her PCS scores.
"Normal, average jumps" don't get high GOE---average is 0 GOE. Liza doesn't get much flowout on her jumps (part of her coverage problem) and that also keeps GOE low.
When Liza was a junior, her ice coverage was tiny even for a junior. Her coverage may be somewhat better now than it was back then, but she is skating senior now, and her ice coverage isn't what it should be at this level. That affects her SS score, and in turn all her PCS scores.
"Normal, average jumps" don't get high GOE---average is 0 GOE. Liza doesn't get much flowout on her jumps (part of her coverage problem) and that also keeps GOE low.
