World Team Trophy 2013 Men

[evangeline]

I vastly prefer CoP to 6.0, to the point that I think going back to 6.0 would be a monumentally stupid move.

But the fact that Chan's total trainwreck of a LP received only 1 point less in total PCS than Takahashi's LP signals to me that something is very, very wrong with the current system we have. It's ridiculous. I can't even pretend to understand it.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

That's insulting.

How is that insulting? You think Takahashi hasn't also had a technically inconsistent season? He's only had one clean skate (SP at the GPF) all season, and placed on the podium or won his flawed events.

Cup of China: SP with 1 error, FS with 4 errors - 5 errors if you include omitting a third combo - (1 downgrade, 1 fall) [SILVER]
NHK Trophy: SP with 1 error, FS with 2 errors - 3 errors if you include omitting a third combo [SILVER]
GPF: SP with no errors, FS with 4 errors (1 fall) [GOLD]
4CC: SP with 2 errors (1 fall), FS with 4 errors - 6 errors if you include him omitting a 2nd & 3rd combo (1 fall)
Worlds: SP with 2 errors, FS with 3 errors (1 fall)
WTT: SP with 2 errors (1 downgrade), FS with 2 errors (1 downgrade) [GOLD]

 

[christinaskater]

Figure skating should be about perfection! No one who is so imperfect should win!
I hope Patrick is not over scored. It is so shameful for the sport to see a world champion who is so erroneous.

 

[zschultz1986]

You forgot the fundamental in your argument. PE wasn't counted by elements. There are other non-element moments which will be counted in PE.

No, I didn't, but I get where you're coming from. It was a dismal performance. Honestly, as much as they hammered Chan, he should have been hammered even more. That spin at the end though, was perfectly on song (LOL). I did feel sad for him at that moment, cause everything was just going wrong for him... but Hubris is a B****.

He's not winning Olympics next year. He's just not. On a stage like that? If he performs like he did here OR like he did at Worlds?

He reminds me a lot of Abbott. Like Abbott, Chan usually brings his A Game to Nats. Then he gets to Worlds and gets tight. The only difference is, Chan falls, but rotates things, while Abbott URs sometimes, and pops stuff. Remember when Buttle threw in that Quad at 06 Olympics even though he knew he was gonna fall, because the points he got for the Quad w/fall was more than the jump that would have been there other wise? It's just... not the way a sport should function. A Fall should not be rewarded, or should be penalized harshly. Also, it should be reflected in PCS too, more so than it is now.


Unlike Evangeline, I totally understand this system. However, that makes me hate it EVEN more. I can totally see where the judges are holding Chan up, and maybe it's not intentional, or maybe it is, but I know one thing: It's bad for the sport.

Also, there needs to be some distinction between the Short and Long Programs. Short used to be technical, and long used to be free.... but now, they're basically the same, with different music. Bring back ordinals in the short, so no one can win based on a Short Program.

This system isn't any better than 6.0, because the corruption in the judging is still there, which WAS the major goal of the change.

 

[trains]

NHK Trophy: SP with 1 error, FS with 2 errors - 3 errors if you include omitting a third combo [SILVER]
GPF: SP with no errors, FS with 4 errors (1 fall) [GOLD]
4CC: SP with 2 errors (1 fall), FS with 4 errors - 6 errors if you include him omitting a 2nd & 3rd combo (1 fall)
Worlds: SP with 2 errors, FS with 3 errors (1 fall)
WTT: SP with 2 errors (1 downgrade), FS with 2 errors (1 downgrade) [GOLD]

Without a doubt Patrick is more than an excellent skater. All year the judges have been trying to hang onto that and have given him marks with that in mind. But he is not skating like an excellent skater. Seriously, he MUST get back to proper coaching. He retains his skill but he can no longer deliver it because he is not being prepared, coached and trained properly any longer. He can't coast on his old skills any longer. His momentum has run out.

 

[let`s talk]

and a great artistic skater like Takahashi/Chan.

How is that insulting? You think Takahashi hasn't also had a technically inconsistent season?

Your trolling is boring. Full of demagogy which is a plain spam apriori.

Your quote that I replied on was taken from your post where your put Takahashi and Chan as one unit "a great skater like Takahashi/Chan" in singular grammar form as if they are one and the same unit in terms of artisty. That is insulting.

 

[Matilda]

Poor Menshov I hope he gets well soon.

I'm glad to hear Max say he needs to work on getting his PCS score up. His jumps are terrific and it's about time he got +GOE for his 4S!

Daisuke can sell a program like nobody else. He could probably skate to the sound of highway traffic and make it beautiful...

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Also, there needs to be some distinction between the Short and Long Programs. Short used to be technical, and long used to be free.... but now, they're basically the same, with different music. Bring back ordinals in the short, so no one can win based on a Short Program.

The problems with this are that the short will be relegated to just jumps without the difficult spins/choreo/footwork, since there's little benefit to do those, and just as no one can win based on a SP, people further back in the standings are restricted to how far they can climb in the standings if they have a bad SP.

 

[seniorita]

Finally caught up. Ugh Menshov, this is not his year afterall. I hope he is ok. Reynolds suddently started getting high-for him- pcs marks, which I cant understand anyway. I find him clampsy.
Joubert is a delight, whatever his marks, I ll miss him when he retires. Also I really dont understand pcs but I know they are not just Skating Skills marks, give Chan 10 for skating skills even if he falls 3 times, but presentation /interpretation really? So many mistakes in one Lp do not reflect 85 pcs. We are used to him making mistakes, but now I m kind of tired, especially with Olympic season coming. It is not good to wait for him to skate and wonder how many mistakes he will do, zero or four.
Amazing audience, I m happy Dai won in Japan and happier that he ended the season on high note, now change the programs and maybe also coach. The sp change before 4CC was unfortunate. The other one was better. I like Mura but I m worried about Kozuka status in the team.

 

[chuckm]

Max HAS to work on his spins and footwork first, before the PCS.

3.50 FCCoSp3, +0.50 GOE
3.80 StSq3, +0.50 GOE
3.29 CCoSp3, +0.29 GOE
2.26 FCSSp2, -0.04 GOE
2.50 ChSq1, +0.50 GOE

15.35 total, non jump elements

REYNOLDS
4.70 StSq4, +0.80 GOE
3.16 CCSp3, +0.36 GOE
3.40 ChSq1, +1.40 GOE
4.36 CCoSp4, +0.86 GOE
2.36 FCCoSp1, +0.36 GOE

17.88 total, non-jump elements

Reynolds is not exactly an artistic skater---like Aaron, he is primarily a jumper. But his spins and footwork are MUCH better than Max's. Max needs to bring his non-jump elements up quite a bit or he won't be able to capitalize on his jump superiority.

 

[Mathman]

Without a doubt Patrick is more than an excellent skater...But he is not skating like an excellent skater.

That is the perfect Summary. Patrick is a great skater. But he is not skating like one.

Having outstanding skating skills is wonderful. But when these skills are not put to the service of the program, the judges should not pretend that they are.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Your quote that I replied on was taken from your post where your put Takahashi and Chan as one unit "a great skater like Takahashi/Chan" in singular grammar form as if they are one and the same unit in terms of artisty. That is insulting.

Oh seriously, get over yourself. You're insulted because I grouped together the two skaters with the highest PCS in the men's field (heaven forbid! ). Generally, Chan has better skating skills/transitions/choreography, Takahashi has better interpretation/performance. I don't care how much you hate Chan or adore Takahashi, the vast majority of the figure skating world (and the judges' PCS marks) view Chan/Takahashi as PCS ("artistic") ideals that other skaters should be striving for. Chan's higher quality of skating (artistry on the blade) in general is rewarded more than Takahashi's greater expressiveness (artistry in expression) hence his consistent edge over Takahashi on PCS.

 

[seniorita]

Prior incantato a la Harry Potter, they remember his previous marks. Example: If he got 88 at Worlds with 2 mistakes, we will give him 85 now to punish him. I think thats the problem of a judged sport, if this were a skater from Ghana with same skating skills as Chan and same errors in Lp on a given day he wouldnt have gotten 152.

 

[dorispulaski]

Guys, please don't bicker! It becomes very tiresome for everyone else. We've read these arguments many times now.

What I'd like to know is, are there any reports from Menshov's doctors? What's his prognosis?

I so wanted him him to really ace the FS

 

[chuckm]

Menshov dislocated his shoulder. That's pretty bad for a singles skater. They can manipulate the shoulder back into place, and tape it for extra support. Since this is the end of the season, he can rest and see if that helps. But spins and multiple revolution jumps will be a problem. He could have surgery and that would take care of the problem, but he'd lose a lot of training time for next season.

 

[silverlake22]

I'd actually say Reynolds is pretty good at spins and steps, so I take the GOE differences as more of evidence of how Reynolds has improved to become very decent on that front and not really that Max is noticeably weak in that area. Max does need to work on both those things, but he hits some good positions in his spins, they are just a bit sloppy sometimes. It seems like he's actually pretty flexible, he just doesn't get his leg fully straight in his camel. Spins might be harder for him too because of his build, his legs are very short and his hips are really narrow so maybe it's harder to maintain balance when you're bent in half like that for someone built like Max with more weight in his upper body (longer legs and a shorter torso seem to be more common among skaters, male or female). The speed he carries into the spins is also so maybe if he slowed down a bit he'd have more control?Not sure

 

[Krislite]

I just checked the results and the videos, and I can say that I'm shocked by Chan's program: it looked like if he wasn't even TRYING to do those jumps, after the fall in the 3A... I think that her really felt bad after Worlds, because of all the critics about his win, so he wanted to redeem himself here and show everyone that he can skate well, but he didn't, and that's why he looked so disappointed, I think; it has to be extremely frustrating: knowing that you CAN do it, but not being able to do it...

It seemed more like he just didn't want to be there at all. I didn't get the sense that he was looking for redemption here. I suspect all the controversy and brouhaha over his World title has gotten to him a little bit. There's no way he's not aware of it.

 

[Bartek]

I vastly prefer CoP to 6.0, to the point that I think going back to 6.0 would be a monumentally stupid move.

But the fact that Chan's total trainwreck of a LP received only 1 point less in total PCS than Takahashi's LP signals to me that something is very, very wrong with the current system we have. It's ridiculous. I can't even pretend to understand it.

It's not the system that is that flawed but the judging. I cannot understand why on earth Chan received 8 for PERFORMANCE/EXECUTION. For this performance he should've got 6 at maximum. It was very poorly executed program with clearly discernible and disruptive mistakes that affected the whole skate and the flow of it. Standing and not doing anything while he should've been executing his last spin he didn't even bother to wait until the music finishes...

 

[carignan]

Reynolds is not exactly an artistic skater---like Aaron, he is primarily a jumper. But his spins and footwork are MUCH better than Max's. Max needs to bring his non-jump elements up quite a bit or he won't be able to capitalize on his jump superiority.

But what's more, Aaron doesn't do anything between elements. What he is doing is just skating around the rink. He has the speed but, I'm sorry to say, it's rather annoying to see he can compete equally against skaters like Chan, Takahashi, Abbott and even Reynolds who is trying to do his best. Isn't TR important for IJS?

 

[deedee1]

Sad sad for Menshov. Such an awful fall on 3A... Hope he gets completely.

Kevin, Brian and Dai rocked the house and got so much love from the audience last night! And hearing Kevin's and Brian's scores came up, not so much from judges, I guess...:sarcasm:

Mens LP placements of mine, again watching from the ceiling:
1. Reynolds
2. Takahashi
3. Aaron

Overall; combined SP+LP
1.Takahashi
2. Reynolds
3. Aaron

I am no professional, just a mere fan who loves this sport. I know. hwell:

Now I am leaving for Day3 comp of WTT, to end MY season of figure skating. Everyone, let's hope all skaters will have a good performance that they can get satisfied with, no more injuries, put their programs to rest and end the exhasuting season finally!