Prosecutor throws out Plushenko slander complaint

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Oh? So you are saying that his disc HADN'T deteriorated? Then why did he have the surgery? Pray enlighten us!

No, I'm saying that it hadn't deteriorated to a point that it would be thoroughly detrimental his performance, because clearly by choosing to compete he felt that it was "fine enough". If it had deteriorated to a point that required surgery, then he shouldn't (and wouldn't) have competed at Euros and had the necessary surgery. I don't get why his ubers are so staunchly defending his error as attributed to injury when he's explained and admitted that it was his own mistake.

 

[LRK]

No, I'm saying that it hadn't deteriorated to a point that it would be thoroughly detrimental his performance, because clearly by choosing to compete he felt that it was "fine enough". If it had deteriorated to a point that required surgery, then he shouldn't (and wouldn't) have competed at Euros and had the necessary surgery. I don't get why his ubers are so staunchly defending his error as attributed to injury when he's explained and admitted that it was his own mistake.

But then suddenly - like overnight - it DID deteriorate to the degree that the surgery was necessary? You didn't reply to my question - why did he have surgery?

 

[yaya124]

Firstly, he explicitly stated that his major error was not due to injury, and admitted he botched the jump. Secondly, I acknowledge that after the SP, his injury might have deteriorated to such an extent that he required surgery (and have accepted that he pulled out due to injury). But he was so far behind to win that there was no point in risking further injury anyways... IMO if he was in 1st or close to 1st after that SP, he would have definitely skated his LP.

I think I said it once, but I do not mind say it again. I think you are right on if he is first in SP, he will continue since he would still think he can pull it out. To be the first in SP requires at least performing one quad and a 3A successfully, right? So if he could be first means he could still pull out quad, of course he would think about continuing. And if he got cleaned without quad, he probably would also consider continuing since he might still think he could pull out the quad in LP. But in reality, he could not even perform triples clean meaning he was too injured to even consider trying.

As for his interview, what do you expect him to say? He was taking responsibility of his own mistakes, so he did not link his injury to his mistakes. The fact that he took surgery right after he returned to Russia, and based on what doctor said, it was a wonder that he could even live a life with such bad condition, let alone competing, any people with logic can deduce his bad performance was due to his injury.

But I bet if he said he made mistakes because he was injured, you will still say that he was looking for excuses to cover his bad performance.

 

[Mathman]

I don't know what this argument is about, really. Skaters never complain about injuries or offer injury as an excuse -- it just isn't manly (or womanly) to do so.

Soccer is the only sport that is so wimpy that players are rewarded for flopping, whining, crying, and pretending to be hurt.

In skating, if someone asks afterward about an injury, the skater can answer truthfully. Yes, I went to the doctor and I have thus-and-so ailment. Then, as gmyers and yaya point out, other people (fans) can discuss the effect the injury might have had on the performance if they want to.

Look at Alissa Czisny. She dislocated her hip right in the middle of her performance. Did she moan and wail? Did she say. "I think it might have been the abrupt dislocation of my hip that made me fall"? No, she just stoically laid there on the ice, ever smiling, until they came to cart her off on a stretcher. That's the ticket. Suck it up. stiff upper lip, no excuses. :yes:

 

[LRK]

OT but - the funny thing that I've seemed to notice about "soccer" players is that... the more they're actually hurt, the less they complain...

 

[karne]

OT but - the funny thing that I've seemed to notice about "soccer" players is that... the more they're actually hurt, the less they complain...

Oh yes, I have noticed it too. I think it's one of the reasons soccer has been so slow to grow into a top-level sport in Australia and why we still can't forgive Italy for 2006. We don't appreciate diving or faking. Suck it up, princess.

 

[plushyfan]

I adore soccer. That is the most popular sport in the World, except North-America. :agree:

 

[let`s talk]

Firstly, he explicitly stated that his major error was not due to injury, and admitted he botched the jump.

Firstly, it's quite clearly why you are defending someone like Zhurankov. Because you are a slanderer yourself. And even if you know that Plu didn't say the words that you are putting in his mouth, since obviously you have ready my post where I translated his words, you are still lying about him. Keep in mind, dear Mr. Skate Canada, Plu fandom is not just the longest among the current competitive skaters'. It's also the most effective and the best organized. We are watching you. Every time you bring the lie about our guy, you will be exposed as a liar the same instant. It serves you right.

 

[plushyfan]

Firstly, it's quite clearly why you are defending someone like Zhurankov. Because you are a slanderer yourself. And even if you know that Plu didn't say the words that you are putting in his mouth, since obviously you have ready my post where I translated his words, you are still lying about him. Keep in mind, dear Mr. Skate Canada, Plu fandom is not just the longest among the current competitive skaters'. It's also the most effective and the best organized. We are watching you. Every time you bring the lie about our guy, you will be exposed as a liar the same instant. It serves you right.

OMG let's talk!!! Am I organized??? arty: I just read Plushy's official website... There are fantastic admins!! and amazing members!

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Firstly, it's quite clearly why you are defending someone like Zhurankov. Because you are a slanderer yourself. And even if you know that Plu didn't say the words that you are putting in his mouth, since obviously you have ready my post where I translated his words, you are still lying about him. Keep in mind, dear Mr. Skate Canada, Plu fandom is not just the longest among the current competitive skaters'. It's also the most effective and the best organized. We are watching you. Every time you bring the lie about our guy, you will be exposed as a liar the same instant. It serves you right.

The actual quote was: “It wasn’t a magic day today,” Plushenko observed. “I fell on the triple Axel. Maybe I rushed it, maybe I wasn’t completely focused. When we got here to the ice rink, we decided not to go for the quad toe but for the triple Lutz instead, and maybe I didn’t fully switch my focus... The fall on the triple Axel is an unforgivable mistake for me,” the three-time Olympic medalist told the press. “It wasn’t the injury, it wasn’t my back. I missed an easy element for me. I need to do the triple Axel with my eyes closed.” (http://www.goldenskate.com/2013/01/amodio-leads-men-at-2013-europeans/)

I haven't read, nor do I care to read your translation of his words. I don't see why Golden Skate would post those words if they hadn't checked the accuracy of the translation of what he told the press (another skating websites corroborate the words he said: http://www.absoluteskating.com/index.php?cat=articles&id=2013euros-day2 ; http://web.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20130124&content_id=41142458&vkey=ice_news). I'd rather go with the translation given by news articles, rather than your translation which is bound to be biased and paint him in a favourable light. Clearly Plushenko hasn't said these news articles misquotes him, so I believe what they've said - and thus I believe what he said. On the other hand, there's nothing that verifies your ability to accurately translate Russian, but moreover you're not the type of person I would trust to give a legitimate translation that isn't manipulated to defend him.

 

[Mathman]

Speaking of skating journalist Tatjana Flade , she has has written several articles about Plushenko (and about many, many other skaters and skating events). Here is a piece about Plush from 2011 International Figure Skating magazine.

http://evgeni-plushenko.com/eng/press/306/

She is also a poster here on Golden Skate, by the way.

 

[Mathman]

Here is the unabridged quote from the Flade article:

Plushenko had decided to come to Zagreb only on Friday as he is still battling a back injury. His condition had not improved since Russian Nationals and it was obvious in practice that he was not at a 100 percent. In the short, the 2006 Olympic Champion opted for the triple Lutz instead of the quad toe, but the landing was shaky.

The bigger mistake, however, came when the 30-year-old fell on the triple Axel, although he recovered to land a triple loop-triple toe combination. Two spins were a level three while the change sit spin got a level four, but the footwork merited only a level two. The seven-time European Champion earned 74.82 (35.46/40.36) points.

“It wasn’t a magic day today,” Plushenko observed. “I fell on the triple Axel. Maybe I rushed it, maybe I wasn’t completely focused. When we got here to the ice rink, we decided not to go for the quad toe but for the triple Lutz instead, and maybe I didn’t fully switch my focus.”

“The fall on the triple Axel is an unforgivable mistake for me,” the three-time Olympic medalist told the press. “It wasn’t the injury, it wasn’t my back. I missed an easy element for me. I need to do the triple Axel with my eyes closed.”

His right hand was bloody as he cut it while tying his laces right before he skated. Right after the end of the short program Plushenko withdrew as he suffered an aggravation of his chronic back condition.

I do not see how this could possibly be more clear, as an assessment of the whole situation. Plushenko did not make excuses, but it was obvious to observers that he was far from 100%.

 

[plushyfan]

Here is the unabridged quote from the Flade article:



I do not see how this could possibly be more clear, as an assessment of the whole situation. Plushenko did not make excuses, but it was obvious to observers that he was far from 100%.

Yes, I read it. Plushy is always sincere. But the point is not changed.. He was injured, he had big pain, received pain relief injections before the competiton and trainings. If you aren't in good shape, if you have pain, you can make mistakes, because you afraid of the landing, afraid of the spins, etc. That is what happened.

He wanted to compete in Germany in end of november -where Yuna also competed- but they cancelled. There were made to the intervention on his back under general anesthesia, and in december he not trained for two weeks. I really don't undertsand CSG, what do he wants to prove.. He is a great guy, great athlete, he never disappoint the fans. If anybody follows him, his work, his attitude to the figure skating, then will believe in him. Of course, every action can be explained in several ways. CSG is trying to prove with this case, that Plush is a weak skater who has no chance to compete with the youngs. We will see, I hope we will see...

And back to Zhurankov and to the money..CSG, look at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rV1JCSQMV2Y beautiful, and Plushy's new car http://twitter.com/EvgeniPlushenko/status/340763473099247617/photo/1 it seems he prefer the gray..

You believe me, he doesn't have Zhurankov cca 2000's dollars, what he can receive with the case if he wins.

 

[let`s talk]

The actual quote was: “It wasn’t a magic day today,” Plushenko observed. “I fell on the triple Axel. Maybe I rushed it, maybe I wasn’t completely focused. When we got here to the ice rink, we decided not to go for the quad toe but for the triple Lutz instead, and maybe I didn’t fully switch my focus... The fall on the triple Axel is an unforgivable mistake for me,” the three-time Olympic medalist told the press. “It wasn’t the injury, it wasn’t my back. I missed an easy element for me. I need to do the triple Axel with my eyes closed.” (http://www.goldenskate.com/2013/01/amodio-leads-men-at-2013-europeans/)

Lol. Now he is fooling himself.There is no quotes in your stuff, neither actual nor non-actual. Simply because he wasn't speaking English. What you deal with is the translation, which is never a "quote". All Russian media posted the same words of his: http://www.sovsport.ru/gazeta/article-item/583600 , there is a lot of various links on Plu site with the same quotes, as well as on RusFed official site: http://fsrussia.ru/news/408_evgenij-plyucshenko-ne-perestroilsya-s-chetvernogo-na-aksel--/ There were all taken from his interview after SP, it was in a news clip, the links on the official TV channel site got expired now. So don't bother to rant that all RuNet sources are "manipulated to defend him". In any case you are the one who is claiming that he said this and that. The burden of proof is on the person making claims. Bring me the stuff where he indeed is saying what you claim he is saying, in any language. You can't. Because it doesn't exist. Be more creative with your "legitimate" trolling if you please. I told you the Plu fandom is watching you.

I don't see why Golden Skate would post those words if they hadn't checked the accuracy of the translation of what he told the press (another skating websites corroborate the words he said: http://www.absoluteskating.com/index.php?cat=articles&id=2013euros-day2 ; http://web.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20130124&content_id=41142458&vkey=ice_news).

You do realize how stupid it sounds considering the title of this thread (translation) and the actual meaning of the original Russian source? And yeah, I learned long time ago that for you "collaborate" means to repeat the same stuff in circles over and over again.

I haven't read, nor do I care to read your translation of his words. ... rather than your translation which is bound to be biased and paint him in a favourable light. On the other hand, there's nothing that verifies your ability to accurately translate Russian, but moreover you're not the type of person I would trust to give a legitimate translation that isn't manipulated to defend him.

Jeez.. you are the best buddy on this board in my memory who managed to make a fool of himself so well. There is no logic in it. If you haven't read my translation, how you would possible know that it is this and that I wonder. :sarcasm:

And back to Zhurankov and to the money..CSG, look at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rV1JCSQMV2Y beautiful, and Plushy's new car http://twitter.com/EvgeniPlushenko/status/340763473099247617/photo/1 it seems he prefer the gray..

You believe me, he doesn't have Zhurankov cca 2000's dollars, what he can receive with the case if he wins.

Don't worry. I am sure CSG will show up and say that Plu would need this cash for car-washing.

 

[plushyfan]

Don't worry. I am sure CSG will show up and say that Plu would need this cash for car-washing.

I just adore you, let's talk...

 

[Mathman]

There is no quotes in your stuff, neither actual nor non-actual. Simply because he wasn't speaking English. What you deal with is the translation, which is never a "quote". All Russian media posted the same words of his: http://www.sovsport.ru/gazeta/article-item/583600 , there is a lot of various links on Plu site with the same quotes, as well as on RusFed official site: http://fsrussia.ru/news/408_evgenij-plyucshenko-ne-perestroilsya-s-chetvernogo-na-aksel--/ There were all taken from his interview after SP, it was in a news clip, the links on the official TV channel site got expired now.

Let's Talk, are you saying that the Golden Skate article by Tatjjiana Flade did not render the meaning of Plushenko's words correctly into English?

What I don't understand is this. If Plushenko said, "I couldn't skate my best because I was injured," that is a neutral statement of fact that does not deserve either blame or praise. It's just the way it is.

If, on the other hand, he said, "I have been struggling with injury, but that is not why i missed the triple Axel" -- well, that, too, is neither blameworthy nor praiseworthy. It is simply a statement. It gives no ammunition either to Plushenko's supporters or to his critics.

The strange part is that somehow this nothing-of-an-issue has generated 7 pages of discussion and debate. Oh well.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

If, on the other hand, he said, "I have been struggling with injury, but that is not why i missed the triple Axel" -- well, that, too, is neither blameworthy nor praiseworthy. It is simply a statement. It gives no ammunition either to Plushenko's supporters or to his critics.

Exactly. There's absolutely nothing wrong with saying that he simply made a mistake. Figure skaters make mistakes all the time. I wasn't being critical of him for that statement and actually applaud him for admitting that (when he could have conveniently attributed his fall to ongoing injury, and we wouldn't have known any better or worse if that was the case). He's certainly not making any excuses for himself, and his fans go along with whatever statements he makes, so I was wondering why all of a sudden they go against his statement.

 

[let`s talk]

The strange part is that somehow this nothing-of-an-issue has generated 7 pages of discussion and debate. Oh well.

What do you mean by "Oh well"? There is always be a trolling factor in the Internet. The fans simply have to reply on it.

Exactly. There's absolutely nothing wrong with saying that he simply made a mistake. Figure skaters make mistakes all the time. I wasn't being critical of him for that statement and actually applaud him for admitting that (when he could have conveniently attributed his fall to ongoing injury, and we wouldn't have known any better or worse if that was the case). He's certainly not making any excuses for himself, and his fans go along with whatever statements he makes, so I was wondering why all of a sudden they go against his statement.

First, there is no "Exactly". The only exact thing is your trolling in circles about "Plu said this and that" without providing the actual source. Yawn. I envy you how you are never tired of looking stupid. Second, Plu fans never go against his statements. They go against lies that cyber trolls like yourself keep bringing just for fun. I told you we are watching you. Give me the evidence to back your lies if you want them to become true. Until then- you are a slanderer and Zhurankov is your buddy.

 

[gmyers]

Exactly. There's absolutely nothing wrong with saying that he simply made a mistake. Figure skaters make mistakes all the time. I wasn't being critical of him for that statement and actually applaud him for admitting that (when he could have conveniently attributed his fall to ongoing injury, and we wouldn't have known any better or worse if that was the case). He's certainly not making any excuses for himself, and his fans go along with whatever statements he makes, so I was wondering why all of a sudden they go against his statement.

He's the one who even though he said what he said went to have spinal disc replacement. Not saying immediately after the event that it was all injury related doesn't mean I can't look at a skater having a spinal disc replacement surgery almost right after the SP LOL that probably contributed to his mistakes. His mistake on the lutz his fall on the 3A him not even participating in the FS. You want to say him falling on the 3A is what made him withdraw because it put him a hole and his Sochi dream could not survive being beaten by Fernandez and Amodio or even Kovtun. So Lets say he competed in the FS and just was a huge disaster and then right after that had spinal disc replacement surgery. I'm sorry but a skater having spinal disc replacement surgery for the first time ever after bombing a competition would say to most that the injury played a big part in a skater skating so badly!!