Have outfits simply gone over the top?

[Mathman]

Here is what the ISU rules have to say (Rule 500, paragraph 2, page 80 of the official regulations ):

At ISU Championships, the Olympic Winter Games and International Competitions, the clothing of the Competitors must be modest, dignified and appropriate for athletic competition – not garish or theatrical in design. Clothing may, however, reflect the character of the music chosen.

a) The clothing must not give the effect of excessive nudity for athletic sport. Men must wear trousers; no tights are permitted. Accessories and props are not permitted. The decoration on costumes must be non- detachable.

b) Clothing not meeting the foregoing requirements must be penalized by a deduction of 1.0 point (see Rule 353, paragraph 1.m) ii)).

They recently dropped the language that said ladies must wear a skirt of sufficient length to cover the buttocks. That is, ladies can wear pants now -- but if they do wear a skirt, of course it must be modest, dignified and appropriate to athletic competition. :yes:

 

[Alex D]

There is some disagreement as to is it worse, but if you look at Peggy and Dororthy and all the skaters into late 70's, it was clear they were wearing an outfit made for skating. I personally think it isn't just IJS. Some people regard Johnny as entertaining. But there is a reason he never got the marks he may have earned, and a reason why SOI felt he was not what the SOI customer wanted to see, esp as he went "Gaga." Now he is a commentator. The sport never figured where he fit I or did not. He was more about himself -trying to shock people-than the skating as he went on.

To be honest I don't think that this is really the case.

While I wasn't born in the 70´s and therefore lack the "live experience" that some others here have, I honestly think that a lot what we see today was also present back then, but in a more "time related" background.

The whole clothing style changes from generation to generation, so does the opinion about it. We have different age groups at the forum, just like we do have different types of skaters. A 15 years old has a totally different taste than a 26 years old.

If we look at clothes from the 60s or 70´s then they are already very different to each other. If we now make a time jump to today, then that gap is even bigger. While we do have a basic design at figure skating outfits (mainly based on a performance impacting view) - some things automatically change over time. For instance are dresses today, much more involved in the choreography than maybe in the 60´s.

Another point is that we do have many very young skaters right now that are fully in the spotlight, covered by the media. Everyone knows about the young Russian athletes, everyone knows about juniors - this has not been the case in such a persistent matter back then. Skating was a more "mature" sport so to speak and the coverage and accessibility to information much smaller than it is today.

Annete Pötsch, Kati Witt, Beatrix Schuba, Peggy Flemming etc. all were around 19-21 when they were in the spotlight at the Olympics. Of course a "sexy" dress worn by them, does have a different impact on you than when a 14 years old wears it, but the dresses have always been there.

If you compare Peggy´s outfit from 68´s LP, then this is not that different from what it reveals to the dresses of today. Don't forget that a Skater must perform in his / her outfit, that's why they are sticking to a basic design since centuries. While some of the patterns have changed, the basics stayed the same.

 

[skateluvr]

Here is what the ISU rules have to say (Rule 500, paragraph 2, page 80 of the official regulations ):



They recently dropped the language that said ladies must wear a skirt of sufficient length to cover the buttocks. That is, ladies can wear pants now -- but if they do wear a skirt, of course it must be modest, dignified and appropriate to athletic competition. :yes:

Well there you have it. The rules are headed toward wear more revealing costumes, girls, and they are. I hope the skirt covered buttock language is re-instated and that those on the edge of trashy get deducted. But no one cares about modesty in western culture anymore. It is a global phenomenon. I have to say, as clothing, as art, the Indian women in saris (sp?) are just so beautiful. They know men are far more intrigued by modest beauty. That is what I admire-sadly we have Madonna, Brittany, Gaga, etc wearing bras, undies on tour on tv and twerking.

I feel sorry for Russian cultural trends. It is Europe and Hollywood that pushed all the nudity, etc. Kids want to look like the celebs. I do miss wang/mk. A good team.

 

[Mathman]

^ I think the reason the ISU dropped the "Katarina Witt" language about skirts is not to allow shorter skirts but to let girls wear pants if they want.

Here is Fumie Surguri in her modest pants and bustier.

http://www.iceskate.net/skater pix/suguri/fumie_suguri_2005worlds_fs_misha_japaridze_ap.jpg

The interesting thing, to me, about the language is that the only thing that is absolutely forbidden is men in tights. I guess no more Robin Hood programs.

 

[Matilda]

There is some disagreement as to is it worse, but if you look at Peggy and Dororthy and all the skaters into late 70's, it was clear they were wearing an outfit made for skating. I personally think it isn't just IJS. Some people regard Johnny as entertaining. But there is a reason he never got the marks he may have earned, and a reason why SOI felt he was not what the SOI customer wanted to see, esp as he went "Gaga." Now he is a commentator. The sport never figured where he fit I or did not. He was more about himself -trying to shock people-than the skating as he went on.

Did he do anything for the sport? No, because he acted like it was performance art after a certain point. We enjoy talking about costumes, but there is a place for a black unitard. Skating was judged in past, now it is a 'total package' as they say.

Wearing sparkles does not make the performance any less athletic than a black unitard. But, as I said earlier in this thread, for many skaters the costume is an important part of their vision of the program: as you change into the costume and do your make-up, you start getting into the character of the program (not necessarily a character in the sense of Juliet or Quasimodo, etc., but the mood, the images, and ideas you seek to convey in the program). This aspect is more important to some skaters than to others. For some a black unitard may be as good as anything, irrespective of the music and choreography. In either case it should be the choice of the skater.

You ask if Johnny has done anything for the sport. You might be surprised to know how many young skaters (and some adult skaters too) he has inspired. Yuzuru is one of them--he said early on that he looks up to Plushenko for his jumping ability and Johnny for his artistic expression. I have personally heard young skaters refer to Johnny as their inspiration. Many U.S. skaters are leery of saying so in public, however, precisely because U.S. figure skating has traditionally been dominated by the kinds of normative notions of gender expression displayed in your posts.

I don't think that figure skating in the US has lost fans because there is too much "performance" involved in the sport. Nor do I think that dressing skaters in uniforms would suddenly make people who now say it's not a sport to think that it is, and create a larger fan base. To attract more fans the sport needs more exposure, charismatic skaters who win medals, and a good PR team that does not try to shove skaters into some pre-conceived mold of what a male of female skater should be. It's 21st century, and the younger generation--future fans--are much more open to a variety of gender expressions and to gender ambiguity. The sport needs to get with the program already!

 

[Tonichelle]

I'm not a fan of the whole gender bender idea - I'm totally fine with there being girls and boys and sets of "appropriate" clothing for each in the workplace and on ice.

That being said, those that are being hammered here for their "effeminate" clothing just don't come off as that (okay Johnny has gone over the top, and I don't like them, but I don't think it's what has caused the downfall of the sport in North America).

Tara Lipinski's costumes had the short skirts, too. As did ladies in the 70s. This is not new, nor is it what is causing issues of modesty. If skirts were the be all end all then OMG don't look in the direction of gymnastics they don't have skirts at all!!!!!! The horror!!!!

What about ladies beach vollyball? They're required to wear the bikini. Are they ruining their sport? Pretty sure it's a popular once every four years sport for both men and women to watch!

 

[Mathman]

Tara Lipinski's ear had the short skirts, too…

I know! Barely covered the lobe!

 

[Oreo]

I agree that skaters have the right to wear what they feel best expresses his/her artistic vision. What does bother me are 14-year-old girls costumed out to the extreme looking like the pop-up ads on some of those video streams coming from Russia or China. But, hey, if they feel they can compete better like this, then good for them. However, what kind of role model are they to other young girls all over the world who watch these videos and think it's okay to tart up.

 

[Tonichelle]

I know! Barely covered the lobe!

I have no idea what is going on with my firefox it adds words all the time now!

 

[skateluvr]

^ I think the reason the ISU dropped the "Katarina Witt" language about skirts is not to allow shorter skirts but to let girls wear pants if they want.

Here is Fumie Surguri in her modest pants and bustier.

http://www.iceskate.net/skater pix/suguri/fumie_suguri_2005worlds_fs_misha_japaridze_ap.jpg

Times do change, and to the kids here, I am sure I sound ancient. I was once the same build, but taller, as Fumie, and if I wore that in 70's, I'd be called a ho, or attention seeker.Then came the 80's. A Disney Princess was sexualized at 16 with paid for implants. Oops, I did it again, in school uniform was number 1 song? Walt Disney rolled over, I'm sure.

It does seem tame compared to current big star Miley Cyrus of "Wrecking Ball" fame. She was just little Hannah Montana a few years back, no?

THE MAJOR POINT is we are all desensitized by the slow but sure degradation/sexualization of younger and younger girls...first on the runway, then on internet, then on TV. I rebuke the AS LP 'dress' as this same push toward sexualizing young girls with clothes and makeup as it does make them more likely to be victimized.The trend is awful. No long skirts, but I'd be Okay with team uniforms, or dresses like Janet, Peggy Doro. I do not need to see what Adelina is showing.

The male brain has not changed much in many thousand years. There is a huge global demand for young girls.Here's a fact. The average healthy young adult male thinks about sex every three minutes. (I know, LOL, what was 'creator thinking???) If heterosexual males are here and would post truthfully, do they even notice if Adelina ured? Did they remember her triple count? Very distracting dresss y accident or design.

I feel protective toward the vulnerable, the young, and girls especially. I think in the 90's, the top skaters were very appropriate-in USA anyway...I refer to MK, Sarah, Tara, even Irina. She was so wholesome-age appropriate. I still think the US ladies dress appropriately for most part. I may not like Alissa's white negligee dress with brief panties, but she was age 25. I think Michelle had high standards for competition dresses. Her choices hold up. I think she has been a very positive role model for women skaters of all ages. I know her parents were strict, and that was good for her and the legions she inspired. Kudos to Vera Wang, too.

I am well aware of violence toward teens, incest, the whole gamut of what happens to girls that dress too maturely, too sexually before they have a clue. I have dealt with teen pregnancies. I see the whole picture. Adelina has a nice program and my wish for her is that her coach, the Russian Fed get her a better costume. When we who see these costumes all the time describe it as obscene, well, it needs to be taken seriously. The person using that word is from a very free culture/capital of the fashion world. So that says something.

If I had daughters, I'd be strict. Moms tell me they don't sew and that after age 10, they cannot find age appropriate clothing. I feel deeply about this matter, esp the young Russian girls. I abhor the southern usa child pageants. Jon Benet Ramsay was made to look like an adult. Children need protection and safeguarding their innocence. Only Julia has a costume that expresses the music, the story, is age appropriate, and looks easy to skate in. I hope I do not see this beautiful child wearing a negligee next year. I apologize if I seem harsh to any ubers of Hanyu or Sotnikova. They are prodigy skaters. It is truly the costumes I feel are all wrong for comp. skating.

And when it comes to young girls, I'd rather see a Tara Disney inspired dress than a sad attempt to make a little girl look 21 or so. I'd rather be a conservative fuddy-duddy who wants to protect teens from pre-mature clothing or activity than say nothing about potentially harmful trends in fashion. And to bring it back to topic. Well, Anything to bring skating back to wholesome mainstream may help revive sport in America. Secondarily to a judging system average person can understand without downloading ISU manuals.

A little disjointed, I wish I could write as well as some of you do. I truly do not dislike (the opposite actually) the skaters whose costumes I see as wrong for them/the sport.

The interesting thing, to me, about the language is that the only thing that is absolutely forbidden is men in tights. I guess no more Robin Hood programs.

And thank goodness, tights can be a little, well, revealing at the ballet. But I seem to remember Urmanov in tights? Maybe an exhibition? Unitard isn't much different than tights however.

Well, I've given my honest reaction and what lies beneath...concern, abhorrence of the fashion trend in general. Each discipline could use some raising of standards to classier levels is my final statement. It was meant to be costumes lite, but a couple posters misunderstood, or were simply in disagreement. Perhaps threatened/offended or scared. With the amazingly bad new Putin laws, I can understand how LBGT community around world would react with fear. I support destroying such laws, civil rights for all. It seems people are born into their orientation. But a sport like FS needs to walk a fine line. There may be many gay men in the sport, but there are also heterosexual skaters and fans. And their viewpoints should matter.

I recall someone once saying that they could not define pornography, but they recognized it when they saw it. I have brought up many serious questions, when initially, I felt it would not be a deep thread so to speak. But the many variables and reactions are understood. I accept all viewpoints, and feel mine as strongly as any poster. I am sure we have had serious threads before on costume issues and affect on skating and perception around the world.

I thought that under a certain age, anything goes. But I am glad people see that it might be affecting popularity of FS in USA. I hope someone starts from scratch, a better writer and more popular poster. maybe a mod-then we know topic is safe and not a likely lockdown. I generally am pretty kind to skaters, tho I can be critical too. If we were all like Peggy F, it would be a nice serene but pointless board. Loved the skater, her costume but never learned a thing from her commentary all those years. Can't wait to see some new costumes from Russian team!

 

[Candy clouds]

I like Cesario's costumes the most this year.

 

[skateluvr]

yeah, stunning, love her skating more importantly. hope she gets bronze in Beantown.

 

[jennyanydots]

Well there you have it. The rules are headed toward wear more revealing costumes, girls, and they are. I hope the skirt covered buttock language is re-instated and that those on the edge of trashy get deducted. But no one cares about modesty in western culture anymore. It is a global phenomenon. I have to say, as clothing, as art, the Indian women in saris (sp?) are just so beautiful. They know men are far more intrigued by modest beauty. That is what I admire-sadly we have Madonna, Brittany, Gaga, etc wearing bras, undies on tour on tv and twerking.

I feel sorry for Russian cultural trends. It is Europe and Hollywood that pushed all the nudity, etc. Kids want to look like the celebs. I do miss wang/mk. A good team.

Really bad example. Back in the day Indian women didn't wear a blouse under saris, that is see through gauzy fabric draped over bare chest. With British colonization, it was deemed indecent so they started wearing the blouse underneath, which still does show a significantly amount of flesh by the way. It is rather interesting how a lot of Asian cultures adopted the old european standards of modesty and how it's kind of reversed now.

Also the length of skirt hardly determines whether a skating outfit is modest or not because it flaps up showing the skater's butt more than half the time anyway. So would that mean ballet dancers and gymnasts in leotards look like trashy vixens? I do recall that Nancy Kerrigan and Nicole Bobek had some dresses that didn't completely cover their butts.

And how can you say Johnny Weir has done nothing for the sport? Many skaters are inspired by him and he has brought attention to figure skating. I'm sure more of the general public know who Johnny Weir is than Evan Lysacek. Okay, he never achieved his potential and part of it may be due to his refusal to conform to the system and "norms" but that really is uncalled for.

 

[Tonichelle]

Really bad example. Back in the day Indian women didn't wear a blouse under saris, that is see through gauzy fabric draped over bare chest. With British colonization, it was deemed indecent so they started wearing the blouse underneath, which still does show a significantly amount of flesh by the way. It is rather interesting how a lot of Asian cultures adopted the old european standards of modesty and how it's kind of reversed now.

Also the length of skirt hardly determines whether a skating outfit is modest or not because it flaps up showing the skater's butt more than half the time anyway. So would that mean ballet dancers and gymnasts in leotards look like trashy vixens? I do recall that Nancy Kerrigan and Nicole Bobek had some dresses that didn't completely cover their butts.

And how can you say Johnny Weir has done nothing for the sport? Many skaters are inspired by him and he has brought attention to figure skating. I'm sure more of the general public know who Johnny Weir is than Evan Lysacek. Okay, he never achieved his potential and part of it may be due to his refusal to conform to the system and "norms" but that really is uncalled for.

 

[skateluvr]

Johnny blames his success on being different or his failures, he's got it covered. Whether he has made it possible to design yurus blouse-not much achievement. He was not Rudy Galindo, after all, the real deal.

yeah toni, SO post.

 

[Matilda]

Johnny blames his success on being different or his failures, he's got it covered. Whether he has made it possible to design yurus blouse-not much achievement. He was not Rudy Galindo, after all, the real deal.

yeah toni, SO post.

You certainly seem to have problems with Johnny being different, so saying his difference contributed to how he was treated by skating officials and judges who share your attitude isn't much of a stretch...

Luckily Yuzuru is from Japan, and Japanese officials and fans seem to be much more interested in their skaters doing well than whether they look "masculine" or "feminine" (notions of which vary from one culture to another anyway). As it should be.

Also, I have no idea of what you mean by Rudy being "the real deal"?

There may be many gay men in the sport, but there are also heterosexual skaters and fans. And their viewpoints should matter.

This sentence implies that the gay men in the sport need to take the heterosexual skaters into consideration, but not the other way around. How about we just accept different skaters and different fans all in our fold, without judgement? You also should not assume all those who are offended by your attitude to be gay--many straight people find heteronormative attitudes offensive, too.

 

[Icey]

Imo many of the the female costumes violate the requirement that they not be garish or theatrical. If male ballet dancers can wear tights, why can't male skaters?

 

[aftertherain]

Personally, I have no problem with Yuzuru Hanyu's costumes. I do, however, have a problem with how he looks (and is presented) in them.

It's pretty obvious that he's got loads of talent, but his costumes do little to complete the package. Most often, they look ill-fitted or wash him out. It's a bit disconcerting to see him look like a child suffering from an illness all the time--even when that isn't the case. I think he needs not only be better presented in terms of outfit choices (with regards to if they fit his body type), but also stylistically as well (hair, etc)--maybe comb his hair a certain way so that it doesn't look like he's got sweaty hair every time he goes out to compete.

 

[TontoK]

Can you say more about what you mean by "non-fussy"?

Certainly. I prefer competitive skating costumes that are simple and elegant. I do not like beads, sequins, feathers, fringe, mesh, and the like.

I do not like these things in men's costumes. I do not like these things in women's costumes.

 

[aftertherain]

I feel protective toward the vulnerable, the young, and girls especially. I think in the 90's, the top skaters were very appropriate-in USA anyway...I refer to MK, Sarah, Tara, even Irina. She was so wholesome-age appropriate.

I suspect that selective memory is at play. In 1995-96, Michelle and her team were criticized for her Salome packaging choices as she was 15 at the time. Also, if we're going to talk about over-the-top costumes, Michelle wore this one to Worlds a bit later in her career--honestly, it was an eyesore because it didn't fit with the program at all. Tara Lipinski's cringe-worthy routine to "Genie in a Bottle" the season after her Olympic triumph was also of note. Sarah Hughes wore this during her an exhibition the year after her own Olympic triumph--if we're going to criticize Ashley Wagner for her R&J orange dress (which, I personally had no problem with)--then I'm going to have to say that this dress is just as "negligee"-ish as that one.

Can't say much for Irina though. Her career is too long and I haven't followed her nearly as close as I followed Michelle.

I am well aware of violence toward teens, incest, the whole gamut of what happens to girls that dress too maturely, too sexually before they have a clue. I have dealt with teen pregnancies.

Females of all ages have to deal with "violence" and negativity regardless of what they wear. As it stands, society seems to promote violence against and taking advantage of women, period--and that is something that needs to change.