What is the best strategy for amazing Asada to challenge incredible Kim at the Games?

[evangeline]

I just think its curious how she can get worse at it as time goes by. She's not old or physically incapable. It has to be a mental mistake with her approach.

It's normal for skaters to have their jumps deteriorate when they get older--injuries, puberty, pressure. All those jumps take a heavy physical toll on one's body.

Just ask everyone from Daisuke Takahashi, Stephane Lambiel, Michelle Kwan, Alexei Yagudin, Evgeni Plushenko, Tara Lipinski.....

 

[CarneAsada]

I just think its curious how she can get worse at it as time goes by. She's not old or physically incapable. It has to be a mental mistake with her approach.

Tara Lipinski ground her body down by age 15 doing her triple-triples. "Old" is a relative term.

 

[OS]

Anyone remember that movie called TinCup? It is a movie about golf. There's a really memorable scene where Costner's character (a sort of aged reckless formal golf prodigy on his last tour) was competing at US open finally making his great come back, but he being one of those stubborn reckless characters who is never able to resist a bold dare.

Always have that infuriating 'I can make that shot, I can do it' even when no one believe him, and often paid the price with losing the entire competition. Anyway at that final 18th hole at US Open, he had the choice of playing safe and force a play off for a par, or taking the risk to go one shot ahead. Being who he is - he took the latter option, unfortunately the Golf Gods keep blew the ball back to the water to heart breaking results, repeatedly one after another. He was stubborn and he repeat his mistake again and again... to the point, he might even been disqualified (no more golf balls left) to his team's mortifying reaction. However on his 12th shot, like a miracle, the balls actually not only clears the water and actually hit into the 'hole - in one' to the crowd's utter amazement and wild applause.

The moral of the story is, does't matter who won or who lost, it is what one wants to be remembered. Who knows.... Mao might just hit her 3 x 3A, and if she does, she will be remembered as her thing that no one can take away from her, not even a Gold. They can't help being who they are. Sure she can be more smarter about a strategy, but it is not the silver, bronze she is after, it is the gold, so how can anyone fault her self believe when it is the only way she knows how? It is her gold to gain - the federation/isu pretty much has done all they can to support her including up the value for 3A, 3A as a single jump in SP, reduce the GOEs by 30% for every other triples jump except the 3A, as well lessen the penalty for UR, give her more home events advantages than any competitive skater this season, the rest is up to her now.

 

[miki88]

Mao has been doing 3A's ever since she started skating competitively. Long before she probably heard about Yuna. She was inspired by Midori Ito and wanted to be a skater like her idol. She first attempted two 3A's at junior worlds back in 2006 long before Yuna's dominance happened. I've heard she wanted to continue with it but Arutunian held her back. TAT was more supportive, so she added another 3A. This choice probably led to her detriment. I don't know why people think her 3A back in 2009-2010 was better in terms of quality. They appeared strained and had almost no flow on the landing. Now, her 3As appear more effortless and light.

 

[wootie]

Mao's best strategy is to not fall apart like she did today during her long program. While I love her footwork sequence, her jump layout is, to be frank, NOT wise. When she lands her triple axel, it's lovely, but it is not a consistent jump for her. When she pops it or falls on it, the rest of her program noticeably suffers. You can just sense her tension if things don't go well from the get-go, and it negatively impacts her overall performance. It would be a lot of wiser for Mao to just stick one 3A in the long program instead of trying to be ultra amazing by attempting two. I know it looks great when she gets both of them done cleanly, but it almost never happens, and even when she landed both of them cleanly in Vancouver, she still didn't win the gold medal (I know, she botched a few of her other jumps). Anyway, I feel like Mao is simply overestimating her technical ability and needs to pare down the difficulty and concentrate on making the rest of her program as beautiful as it can be.

 

[Ven]

I don't know why people think her 3A back in 2009-2010 was better in terms of quality.

The first one she did on the Vancouver FS was absolutely tight and cracking. Compared to this season, now she wobbles all over and cannot land the jump. There's no "wow" factor in the revolutions like that one I saw from Vancouver.

People may disagree with me, but I feel like Mao has never been at peace with her career, and Yuna achieved that. Not just because Yuna won the OGM last time and Mao didn't, because for Yuna it came before then. From 2008, when Mao had been better than Yuna for years, and Yuna was often injured and had to train in a foreign country, whatever difficulties she had, she seemed to just make peace with herself and her career really blossomed after that. For Mao, she was always #1 of her age for so long, then when Yuna passed her, I don't think she took it well. I don't think she's ever been at peace since that time. Disagree if you want, but it just feels like her mindset is off-balance and rather than make peace with herself and develop her own artistry and persona, all she's tried to do for the last 5 years is score more points than Yuna. I think it's a mistake and unfortunate for her and her fans.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Her 2A-3T consistently gets UR calls.

No it doesn't. She has had it ratified every single time internationally from 2013 Worlds forwards.

 

[CarneAsada]

People may disagree with me, but I feel like Mao has never been at peace with her career, and Yuna achieved that. Not just because Yuna won the OGM last time and Mao didn't, because for Yuna it came before then. From 2008, when Mao had been better than Yuna for years, and Yuna was often injured and had to train in a foreign country, whatever difficulties she had, she seemed to just make peace with herself and her career really blossomed after that. For Mao, she was always #1 of her age for so long, then when Yuna passed her, I don't think she took it well. I don't think she's ever been at peace since that time. Disagree if you want, but it just feels like her mindset is off-balance and rather than make peace with herself and develop her own artistry and persona, all she's tried to do for the last 5 years is score more points than Yuna. I think it's a mistake and unfortunate for her and her fans.

You seem so invested in the idea that Mao is some broken girl who can't get over the fact that her rival passed her. In 2008, she was upgrading her programs and fixing her Lutz edge despite beating Yuna at Worlds (with the charmingly-dubbed "sliding zero Axel" to boot). She lost ground and got passed by Yuna in 2009 because she started losing half her jumps (Lutz and 3-3 being the first to go), not because Yuna reached enlightenment and became some kind of skating bodhisattva. When you're losing your jumps, I doubt you'd be "at peace" - you'd most likely be trying to regain your technique.

 

[miki88]

The first one she did on the Vancouver FS was absolutely tight and cracking. Compared to this season, now she wobbles all over and cannot land the jump. There's no "wow" factor in the revolutions like that one I saw from Vancouver.

People may disagree with me, but I feel like Mao has never been at peace with her career, and Yuna achieved that. Not just because Yuna won the OGM last time and Mao didn't, because for Yuna it came before then. From 2008, when Mao had been better than Yuna for years, and Yuna was often injured and had to train in a foreign country, whatever difficulties she had, she seemed to just make peace with herself and her career really blossomed after that. For Mao, she was always #1 of her age for so long, then when Yuna passed her, I don't think she took it well. I don't think she's ever been at peace since that time. Disagree if you want, but it just feels like her mindset is off-balance and rather than make peace with herself and develop her own artistry and persona, all she's tried to do for the last 5 years is score more points than Yuna. I think it's a mistake and unfortunate for her and her fans.

Lol on what basis do you make this assumptions? Mao has been through so many personal struggles these last five years. It's simply insulting for you to summarize someone's career like that, especially when your reasons are totally baseless.

 

[evangeline]

The first one she did on the Vancouver FS was absolutely tight and cracking. Compared to this season, now she wobbles all over and cannot land the jump. There's no "wow" factor in the revolutions like that one I saw from Vancouver.

People may disagree with me, but I feel like Mao has never been at peace with her career, and Yuna achieved that. Not just because Yuna won the OGM last time and Mao didn't, because for Yuna it came before then. From 2008, when Mao had been better than Yuna for years, and Yuna was often injured and had to train in a foreign country, whatever difficulties she had, she seemed to just make peace with herself and her career really blossomed after that. For Mao, she was always #1 of her age for so long, then when Yuna passed her, I don't think she took it well. I don't think she's ever been at peace since that time. Disagree if you want, but it just feels like her mindset is off-balance and rather than make peace with herself and develop her own artistry and persona, all she's tried to do for the last 5 years is score more points than Yuna. I think it's a mistake and unfortunate for her and her fans.

Your attempts at armchair psychology reminds me of the criticisms of Mao a few years ago, when people were criticizing Mao for wanting to stay and train in Japan instead training abroad with Artunian in California or Tarasova in Russia. People were calling Mao a spoiled little girl who couldn't tough it out and train in a foreign country like Yu-Na, along with making other completely specious psychiatric diagnoses about her mindset and character. Then these people ended up with a giant egg on their faces, because it turned out that Mao wanted to stay in Japan because her mother was dying.

 

[cosmos]

Your attempts at armchair psychology reminds me of the criticisms of Mao a few years ago, when people were criticizing Mao for wanting to stay and train in Japan instead training abroad with Artunian in California or Tarasova in Russia. People were calling Mao a spoiled little girl who couldn't tough it out and train in a foreign country like Yu-Na, along with making other completely specious psychiatric diagnoses about her mindset and character. Then these people ended up with a giant egg on their faces, because it turned out that Mao wanted to stay in Japan because her mother was dying.

Off-topic. But, I am just curious. IIRC from Japanese media, Mao's mom was diagnosed of cancer in 2011. Perhaps, she was not in good health already, but I don't think she was dying then.

 

[Ven]

Lol on what basis do you make this assumptions?

I said it's personal opinion. There are no facts needed for opinions. Look at her on the podium in Vancouver. She won silver, she was not happy. That's the personality she has because she's very talented. That's not a knock on her, I kind of admire that determination. Nevertheless, it's important to find peace with oneself. I don't get the feeling like Mao ever found peace with her skating or her career. Maybe there are various reasons for it. That doesn't mean I said anything bad about her or talked about her dying mother. Some of you can be pretty extreme.

 

[Ven]

not because Yuna reached enlightenment and became some kind of skating bodhisattva

I get you are going for hyperbole, but there's some truth to this. Phil Jackson, the most successful basketball coach in NBA history, would always stress zen teachings with athletes like Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant. He was even able to keep Dennis Rodman's head on straight enough to win championships. Sports psychologists are en vogue now.

 

[CarneAsada]

Off-topic. But, I am just curious. IIRC from Japanese media, Mao's mom was diagnosed of cancer in 2011. Perhaps, she was not in good health already, but I don't think she was dying then.

According to Rafael Arutunian, Mao's mom was diagnosed in the winter of 2007-08. That's why she didn't go back to Lake Arrowhead to train and it was ultimately why they split up.

 

[miki88]

I said it's personal opinion. There are no facts needed for opinions. Look at her on the podium in Vancouver. She won silver, she was not happy. That's the personality she has because she's very talented. That's not a knock on her, I kind of admire that determination. Nevertheless, it's important to find peace with oneself. I don't get the feeling like Mao ever found peace with her skating or her career. Maybe there are various reasons for it. That doesn't mean I said anything bad about her or talked about her dying mother. Some of you can be pretty extreme.

It's because you made a pretty extreme analysis of Mao's personality and situation despite not even caring to base it on facts. Um, if you're talking about podium expressions. Yuna didn't appear all that happy when she won silver in Worlds 2011 either. One can also interpret that in many ways depending on personal opinions.

 

[Ven]

Yuna didn't appear all that happy when she won silver in Worlds 2011 either. One can also interpret that in many ways depending on personal opinions.

She wasn't happy. Pretty sure everyone believes she didn't want to be there. Maybe she felt like she was letting down the PC bid by losing. Who knows? People get unhappy about things, that's part of life. It doesn't mean it's wrong to bring it up. Just not talking about outside factors or pretending they don't exist doesn't make it better, only makes it worse.

Yuna and her mom converted to Catholicism in 2008, about the same time she went from the bottom of her career and wanting to quit to when she started her ascension. Coincidence? No way. I'm Christian, but I don't think it takes a Christian to realize that finding inner peace and happiness can turn people's lives around.

 

[CarneAsada]

It's because you made a pretty extreme analysis of Mao's personality and situation despite not even caring to base it on facts. Um, if you're talking about podium expressions. Yuna didn't appear all that happy when she won silver in Worlds 2011 either. One can also interpret that in many ways depending on personal opinions.

But Yuna was crying because she had endured so much hardship to get back on the podium! She didn't crack a smile during her Bulletproof EX because she was in pain (or high on painkillers depending on whom you ask)! Obviously Mao is different because she just wants to win; no, it couldn't be that she was also disappointed about missing 2 jumps.

 

[chloepoco]

Off-topic. But, I am just curious. IIRC from Japanese media, Mao's mom was diagnosed of cancer in 2011. Perhaps, she was not in good health already, but I don't think she was dying then.

No, I believe I read somewhere that she was diagnosed several years before that. They just kept it out of the media.

 

[bekalc]

Your attempts at armchair psychology reminds me of the criticisms of Mao a few years ago, when people were criticizing Mao for wanting to stay and train in Japan instead training abroad with Artunian in California or Tarasova in Russia. People were calling Mao a spoiled little girl who couldn't tough it out and train in a foreign country like Yu-Na, along with making other completely specious psychiatric diagnoses about her mindset and character. Then these people ended up with a giant egg on their faces, because it turned out that Mao wanted to stay in Japan because her mother was dying.

Well, I didn't think Asada's coaching system was wise. Not because Asada should have stuck it out in a foreign country, but because Mao had a coach who lived thousands of miles away.

I thought Asada should have gotten a Japanese coach a lot sooner than she did.

 

[bekalc]

I mostly agree but I also think Yu Na is something that was hard for Mao to accept, even as early as 2006 when she first began challenging her. I saw her live when she won the 2005 World Juniors and people were raving about how she was the most talented girl that age ever, and how she was going to be the best skater ever someday. Then someone who is the same age as her comes along and starts challenging and beating her, and by the time of the fall 2007 Grand Prix final Mao could do her full difficulty and win the LP by only 1 point (and losing the overall event after both had poor short programs) to this skater doing far less difficulty and having a fall in her program. I think by now Mao has come to accept Kim and her rivalry with her as what it is, but I think even moreso in the early years Kim and what she represented for her was difficult to accept, given how she looked to be the superstar who would dominate skating on her own for years to come when she first emerged. I think she is even less bothered by Kim in 2009-2013 when Kim was completely dominating her then than she was in 2006-2007 when she was merely challenging her as she is an adult and has had enough time to digest the reality that things arent what they looked like they would be in 2005. I dont think now she looks at Kim beyond what she is, a big obstacle she has to try and beat to win a major title, but in the early years I think Kim`s emergence and rise was really something that was hard for her to accept.

I think its a bit ridiculous to attempt to around into someone's mindset.

I remember reading a post from one of Asada's fans who said years ago well before Kim made into seniors they asked Asada who she thought would be her biggest rival, and Asada named Kim.

I wouldn't be surprised if the dynamic changed between the two when Kim started beating her, but I don't think a skater of Asada's caliber who is use to competition thinks she'll never get competition.