I keep reading this here. What 'man' did Meryl take?
Russians furious over Olympic fix slur
- Thread starter blackswanphoto
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I keep reading this here. What 'man' did Meryl take?
1. I think we have to remember something about the reaction of the Canadian media and the Canadian public here. They still have 2002 Salt Lake City in their minds. They therefore are suspicious right away whenever they hear rumours about vote-fixing, even if it may be false. To some extent I can understand that because that was a huge scandal and it got a huge amount of worldwide attention and even led to the awarding of another set of gold medals, changes to the judging system, etc. Any rumours about it happening again will therefore be covered by the press and cause angry reactions from Canadians online, etc. That makes sense from that perspective.
2. But yes, the problem is that for those reporters or members of the public who only tune in to figure skating every four years and know very little about the competitions of the last few years, the COP system, or the results that D&W vs. V&M have received, they are not necessarily going to be accurate in what they are talking about. Casual viewers probably have V&M's 2010 skate at the Olympics in their minds and may not be aware that D&W have won more competitions than V&M over the past few seasons. They may be unaware that D&W are considered the ones with more momentum in 2014, and that they don't have to cheat to win if they skate well.
2. But yes, the problem is that for those reporters or members of the public who only tune in to figure skating every four years and know very little about the competitions of the last few years, the COP system, or the results that D&W vs. V&M have received, they are not necessarily going to be accurate in what they are talking about. Casual viewers probably have V&M's 2010 skate at the Olympics in their minds and may not be aware that D&W have won more competitions than V&M over the past few seasons. They may be unaware that D&W are considered the ones with more momentum in 2014, and that they don't have to cheat to win if they skate well.
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- Mar 16, 2005
In this case its stupid and illogical because its not like Russia has competition in the team event, or V&T has a rival in pairs or D&W has real competition in dance... none of these teams needed help. If it was the ladies event it might have been a bit more believable.
Great points, Ryan! Thank you.
Use this as a chance to chat up with your nonfigure skating fans. I posted Phil Hersh's article and Facebook and explained the record of the two couples.
You can either let the every-four-year fans go with speculation and no facts...or use your knowledge to generate some great discussion!!
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- Jan 23, 2004
The French reported it, not Canada. It's not a play by Canada in any way.
However, it's a stupid article. Why would Russia buy the event that they were most likely to win? Why not pairs where it could be close? Same goes for USA. D/W are getting the gold, all the events this past yr prove that.
I hate that it's a blemish on our sport.
However, it's a stupid article. Why would Russia buy the event that they were most likely to win? Why not pairs where it could be close? Same goes for USA. D/W are getting the gold, all the events this past yr prove that.
I hate that it's a blemish on our sport.
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- Aug 1, 2011
Now why would Russia agree to a deal to prop up Italian and French teams when they have not one but two viable candidates for bronze on their own team? It makes absolutely no sense.
Well, some Russian skaters needed help. Definitely.
I can imagine "a fix" however not exactly the "fix" L'equipe wrote about. Say Russians win something, US win something. Tit for tat.
So it is not stupid and not illogical.
I also do not agrree with you that "Russia has competition in the team event" if you mean that Russians had no competitors in the team event. That would not be true if the judging was better. IMHO.
On the other hand the thing is done. Russians won and that's it.
Because the U.S. and Russia get along so well, I agree they have to be fixing it.
I mean that's why the U.S. media darling placed 12 points behind the Russian in the FS and the the U.S. Fed's 'controversial' choice for the Olympic team placed in fourth during the short.
Great points, Ryan! Thank you.
Use this as a chance to chat up with your nonfigure skating fans. I posted Phil Hersh's article and Facebook and explained the record of the two couples.
You can either let the every-four-year fans go with speculation and no facts...or use your knowledge to generate some great discussion!!
Yes, this is what I was thinking above.
The non-skating press & non-skating viewers don't know the record of results between the two dance teams and will only know what they read about rumours like this and it can be misleading. They might not be aware that while V&M are a good team and won gold in 2010 Vancouver, D&W have gotten stronger since then and have actually won more events in the last cycle. V&M may still win if they skate really well or if D&W have a fall or big mistake, but viewers need to know that if D&W skate well they can win legitimately on their own without vote-fixing.
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- Mar 16, 2005
The french reported but the Canadians are fanning the flames... look online, there are tons and tons of articles from Canadian sources reporting like its fact and you should read the comments the people are making on the article pages that have absolutely no clue. Some of the more ignorant readers are saying russia and the united states should be banned from the Olympics. It's all in the way they are reporting. Pure propaganda. I think this was timed and planned.
Nonsense. The nuts and bolts of actually carrying out an actual judging conspiracy under the current system are complicated enough. (That's different than the question of whether judges on the whole seem biased towards particular skaters... maybe they are and maybe they aren't.) The notion that the Canadians are carrying out a fake press scandal seems even less likely.
Of course, the most likely scenario is that an anonymous Russian coach with a grudge against someone higher up in his country's skating organization and who had just a little too much to drink decided to tell a tall tale to a reporter at a reception somewhere in Sochi.
But on the Canadian response -- what exactly did you expect? An allegation is raised that their skaters are being cheated out of their medals. Most of the people watching this -- heck, most of the reporters writing these stories -- don't really know anything about the details of the current judging system. All they know is that (1) their athletes got cheated out of medals in the past in exactly this sort of scenario and (2) the scoring system is bewildering enough to them that the idea that the judges could fudge the numbers seems plausible. From that perspective, the official response from the IOC and ISU -- "nah, it's all good, don't believe these anonymous rumor-mongers!" -- obviously sounds more like a cover-up than anything else.
And so we wander back into conspiracy theory-land, for better or worse...
People are making a lot of comments.
Russians are making a lot of comments --- for example that guy from Russian fed, Pisyev, or Russian Sports Minister Vitaly Mutko.
Some more ignorant readers were making comments that Olimpics should not be held in Russia.
Would you also blame that fact on Canadians or prefer to switch blame to, say, Germans?
*****
IMHO I really think you have something against Canada, Canadians or Canadian figure skaters in general.
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- Mar 16, 2005
Nope. I only have something against sore losers... Who can't accept when they have been bested.
Having read the fevered posts of V&M's most OTT fans over the past 8 years (especially before & immediately following Vancouver), I'm not surprised about anything except the incredible accusation that the Russian & USA feds would work together for anything! I've copied Ryan's comments and saved them - will use them when friends & relatives (who don't follow figure skating except during the O's) start asking questions. If it weren't so insulting to D/W, it would be hilarious.
So you say. HOwever reading what you wrote I doubt it.
Hmm, and I have read fevered posts of D/W fans. They are insulting to V/M. Very insulting.
However fans are fans, and they are the same everywhere so you laugh about V/M ones and I laugh about D/W. .
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2005
I like some of the Nationalists, like Andrew Poje, nice guy, good looking, not a sore loser (although he can't finnstep or twizzle for ****). Hubba hubba hot Nationalist!
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As I said above, as a Canadian myself I understand why people are remembering what happened in 2002 Salt Lake City in the pairs event with the Sale/Pelletier vs. B&S judging controversy. It's understandable for people to be sensitive to something like that happening again and to being on their guard.
But we need to make sure the sources of information being reported are legitimate before taking it as a fact and see whether there is actually any evidence of vote-fixing. I think Cam Cole did point out in an article yesterday that D&W are the current World Champions and have a strong record over the past few years and that they can win without someone needing to fix their scores.
I'm not part of either the V&M or D&W cheering squad, so I can appreciate both teams. I hope both teams are judged fairly so there is a legitimate outcome either way.
The fact that allegations about cheating almost immediately get lost in this kind of partisan bickering only benefits two groups of people: the people who like starting these rumours in the first place (if it's false), and the people behind the conspiracy (if it's true).
I can't imagine anyone would seriously disagree with the following: The integrity of the figure skating system is fragile. Rigging has occurred in the past. Therefore, to maintain our credibility, allegations should be seriously investigated every time. Even if they seem very unlikely, and even if the source seems dubious. What's the worst that could happen? That an investigation is held and we confirm it really was just a drunk coach who thought it would be amusing and/or good revenge against someone to start a sensational rumour?
It's at times like this that the ISU's inability to develop a credible judging system bites itself in the you-know-where. If only there was some way we could tell whether a given country's judges were inexplicably bumping up some scores and pushing down others. Like, you know, a non-anonymous scoring system or something...
hwell:
I can't imagine anyone would seriously disagree with the following: The integrity of the figure skating system is fragile. Rigging has occurred in the past. Therefore, to maintain our credibility, allegations should be seriously investigated every time. Even if they seem very unlikely, and even if the source seems dubious. What's the worst that could happen? That an investigation is held and we confirm it really was just a drunk coach who thought it would be amusing and/or good revenge against someone to start a sensational rumour?
It's at times like this that the ISU's inability to develop a credible judging system bites itself in the you-know-where. If only there was some way we could tell whether a given country's judges were inexplicably bumping up some scores and pushing down others. Like, you know, a non-anonymous scoring system or something...
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