Russians furious over Olympic fix slur

[katia]

I like some of the Nationalists, like Andrew Poje, nice guy, good looking, not a sore loser (although he can't finnstep or twizzle for sh**). Hubba hubba hot Nationalist!

LOL. Nationalist? You mean patriot, don't you?
Also, I am wondering what will happen when W/P will start getting silver or bronze medals. Will you not change your mind about them.

 

[MsSweetie]

A French publication reported it first, but its the Canadian media reporting it as if it is a fact

The Canadian media is reporting it as a fact that the quote came from the French magazine. That's about all.

You watch, the article was probably written by the infamous French judge just to stir the pot! LOL

 

[millie]

The french reported but the Canadians are fanning the flames... look online, there are tons and tons of articles from Canadian sources reporting like its fact and you should read the comments the people are making on the article pages that have absolutely no clue. Some of the more ignorant readers are saying russia and the united states should be banned from the Olympics. It's all in the way they are reporting. Pure propaganda. I think this was timed and planned.

The last time I read the news wasn't the United States the ones that were all torn up about the Olympics in Russia...the United States were upset with the Russians because of a certain man named Snowden, that they have given exile to. Everyone up in arms because Russia wouldn't give him back. Now the propaganda is being spewed from the US to try to say that Russia and Canada are at odds with each other. Canada and Russia have a very friendly relationship. They know who is trying to stir the ****. All you hear the you guys ..she was robbed. Here's a fact that you may not know, Virtue and Moir are two of the most decorated skaters in the world....whose jealous of whom...the woodpecker or the swan. Get your fact straight or are you one of those fans that got nothing to say but playground reactions like nah, nah, nah, your jealous cause she got her man...oh my..grow up. Now let's get back to talking about the Olympic. May the best skater win. Good luck

 

[Ryan O]

The fact that allegations about cheating almost immediately get lost in this kind of partisan bickering only benefits two groups of people: the people who like starting these rumours in the first place (if it's false), and the people behind the conspiracy (if it's true).

I can't imagine anyone would seriously disagree with the following: The integrity of the figure skating system is fragile. Rigging has occurred in the past. Therefore, to maintain our credibility, allegations should be seriously investigated every time. Even if they seem very unlikely, and even if the source seems dubious. What's the worst that could happen? That an investigation is held and we confirm it really was just a drunk coach who thought it would be amusing and/or good revenge against someone to start a sensational rumour?

It's at times like this that the ISU's inability to develop a credible judging system bites itself in the you-know-where. If only there was some way we could tell whether a given country's judges were inexplicably bumping up some scores and pushing down others. Like, you know, a non-anonymous scoring system or something... hwell:

You're right that another skating judging scandal would certainly cause more damage to the sport and with the public. Sports writer Rob Brodie said if there's a scandal in Ice Dance this month that the event could get thrown out of the Olympics after Sochi. Who knows whether it would actually come to that, but it would certainly create some reverberations. Hopefully nothing like that will happen.

 

[hyperinflation]

Sports writer Rob Brodie said if there's a scandal in Ice Dance this month that the event could get thrown out of the Olympics after Sochi.

that's sad considering it's probably the only discipline in figure skating that's had increased popularity over the years

 

[blackswanphoto]

The last time I read the news wasn't the United States the ones that were all torn up about the Olympics in Russia...the United States were upset with the Russians because of a certain man named Snowden, that they have given exile to. Everyone up in arms because Russia wouldn't give him back. Now the propaganda is being spewed from the US to try to say that Russia and Canada are at odds with each other. Canada and Russia have a very friendly relationship. They know who is trying to stir the sh--. All you hear the you guys ..she was robbed. Here's a fact that you may not know, Virtue and Moir are two of the most decorated skaters in the world....whose jealous of whom...the woodpecker or the swan. Get your fact straight or are you one of those fans that got nothing to say but playground reactions like nah, nah, nah, your jealous cause she got her man...oh my..grow up. Now let's get back to talking about the Olympic. May the best skater win. Good luck

Why you mad though?

 

[karne]

I am a bit confused as to why so many are instantly dismissive of a planted story by Canada to create a media beat-up. They've done it before! Salt Lake City, anyone? The French judge admitted that she was threatened by members of the North American press and bullied into saying she did a deal. And so they robbed B/S of their deserved moment in the spotlight and got the undeserving S/P a medal.

People really need to get over the Cold War. Russia is always the big evil villain, aren't they? It's unacceptable the way people are constantly slandering them.

 

[dress]

It would be nice to be able to see which judge gave each note. It woud be a good way to be able to see if a judge is helping certain skaters. The sport needs more transparency to be more credible.

If the allegations of the journal L'Équipe are serious they should investigate to save the reputation of the sport. The last time that journal publish a big scandal in sport it was about Armstrong's doping. The journalists were right with that one. Weren't they?

In the end, I just hope the judging will be fair to every skaters. I don't care about who wins as long as it is deserved.

 

[Mathman]

It would be nice to be able to see which judge gave each note. It woud be a good way to be able to see if a judge is helping certain skaters. The sport needs more transparency to be more credible.

Welcome, dress. Post often, post long!

About anonymous judging the U. S. Figure Skating Association has presented a motion to the ISU to abolish it. This will be debated by the ISU council next year. Let's hope for the best.

To all -- cut it out with the Canada bashing, OK? My goodness, even the Korea and Japan bashing has cooled off this year. I have a feeling that this thread won't last long here.

 

[Ryan O]

that's sad considering it's probably the only discipline in figure skating that's had increased popularity over the years

Well, it's just one viewpoint right now. As I said above, it may not come to that. We'll have to see whether this has any truth to it and how it plays out over the course of the month.

 

[NorthernDancers]

You're right that another skating judging scandal would certainly cause more damage to the sport and with the public. Sports writer Rob Brodie said if there's a scandal in Ice Dance this month that the event could get thrown out of the Olympics after Sochi. Who knows whether it would actually come to that, but it would certainly create some reverberations. Hopefully nothing like that will happen.

And this is what we should all rally around and be concerned about. There is something really rotten in the scoring in Sochi, and not just ice dance. It's a little the technical calling, but really bad with the PCS and GOE. And it hasn't just been in Sochi, it was also at Cup of Russia and also GPF. There have been rumours for months and into last year that the results for the Olympics were already being orchestrated. It may or may not be about some master plan fix. But I think the best strategy for the ISU to protect the sport of skating is to take this in hand right now, before the individual events. My suggestions, as posted elsewhere:

• Lock the judges and callers in a room together for a few hours, and review in detail the requirements and rules according to the technical manual so everyone is 100% clear on the expectations, especially relating to PCS and GOE.
  
• Take away the anonymity already now. Make it obvious who and how the judges are making calls.
  
• Just like there are regular press conferences, hold a public meeting after each segment of the event with the judges and callers. Make them accountable, and have to justify their decisions. No hiding. If judges are not following the rules, then the ISU or controllers should straighten them out. This is about integrity of the sport, judging to criteria, not about personal music preferences, style preferences or nationalism or patriotism.

This will result in a few things: the right thing will be seen to be done, which will quiet the chatter; there will be less opportunity or willingness for judges to not follow the rules when the spotlight is on them; the public will maybe be more educated about the sport of skating, and how the judging is supposed to work.


For what it's worth, I think Russia could have won the Team event without all the hyperinflation and high jinx with the PCS and GOE. It would have been within a point or 2, really close, but based on what was skated, the results would have been the same.

 

[Barb]

After the team competition I am sure the fix is real, if they can give those ridiculous scores to julia they are capable of everything, the most ridiculous thing is D/W probably dont need this fix if they to do enough effort. I was all D/W, now I appreciate V/M more, like all their fans always are saying they are really dancing, D/W are jumping all their rutine , I ralized this at nationals, I guess because I watch ice dance more now than before :think:

 

[Rachmaninoff]

The fact that allegations about cheating almost immediately get lost in this kind of partisan bickering only benefits two groups of people: the people who like starting these rumours in the first place (if it's false), and the people behind the conspiracy (if it's true).

I can't imagine anyone would seriously disagree with the following: The integrity of the figure skating system is fragile. Rigging has occurred in the past. Therefore, to maintain our credibility, allegations should be seriously investigated every time. Even if they seem very unlikely, and even if the source seems dubious. What's the worst that could happen? That an investigation is held and we confirm it really was just a drunk coach who thought it would be amusing and/or good revenge against someone to start a sensational rumour?

It's at times like this that the ISU's inability to develop a credible judging system bites itself in the you-know-where. If only there was some way we could tell whether a given country's judges were inexplicably bumping up some scores and pushing down others. Like, you know, a non-anonymous scoring system or something... hwell:

For what it's worth, I think Russia could have won the Team event without all the hyperinflation and high jinx with the PCS and GOE. It would have been within a point or 2, really close, but based on what was skated, the results would have been the same.

Yup, they could have. That's the sad part. They've got some serious skating talent in Russia and could have won on their own merits. Do people really see the team comp judging as accurate? Seriously, Plushy winning the men's free with what he laid down today? Julia's PCS mysteriously shooting up from the beginning of the season for no apparent reason? Selective blindness when it comes to Julia's jump flaws? The deal with the U.S. may well be a false rumor, but this kind of thing doesn't exactly build trust in them. If they're really so deeply offended over people crying fix, perhaps they should realize the rest of the world isn't blind and stop pulling crap like this. Just a thought.

And for what it's worth, no one I've been watching here on Canadian TV has been treating the rumors as fact. If anything, they've seemed a bit like they were glossing over it. I don't expect that to spoil anyone's "Canada's just trying to earn a gold medal in whining" story, though.

 

[sk8tngcanuck]

Nice to hear someone with some intelligence on here! Clearly there is an issue in the sport - there has been for YEARS... isn't it more constructive to actually FIX it rather than play the blame/bashing game?

And this is what we should all rally around and be concerned about. There is something really rotten in the scoring in Sochi, and not just ice dance. It's a little the technical calling, but really bad with the PCS and GOE. And it hasn't just been in Sochi, it was also at Cup of Russia and also GPF. There have been rumours for months and into last year that the results for the Olympics were already being orchestrated. It may or may not be about some master plan fix. But I think the best strategy for the ISU to protect the sport of skating is to take this in hand right now, before the individual events. My suggestions, as posted elsewhere:

• Lock the judges and callers in a room together for a few hours, and review in detail the requirements and rules according to the technical manual so everyone is 100% clear on the expectations, especially relating to PCS and GOE.
  
• Take away the anonymity already now. Make it obvious who and how the judges are making calls.
  
• Just like there are regular press conferences, hold a public meeting after each segment of the event with the judges and callers. Make them accountable, and have to justify their decisions. No hiding. If judges are not following the rules, then the ISU or controllers should straighten them out. This is about integrity of the sport, judging to criteria, not about personal music preferences, style preferences or nationalism or patriotism.

This will result in a few things: the right thing will be seen to be done, which will quiet the chatter; there will be less opportunity or willingness for judges to not follow the rules when the spotlight is on them; the public will maybe be more educated about the sport of skating, and how the judging is supposed to work.


For what it's worth, I think Russia could have won the Team event without all the hyperinflation and high jinx with the PCS and GOE. It would have been within a point or 2, really close, but based on what was skated, the results would have been the same.

 

[katia]

I am a bit confused as to why so many are instantly dismissive of a planted story by Canada to create a media beat-up. They've done it before! Salt Lake City, anyone? The French judge admitted that she was threatened by members of the North American press and bullied into saying she did a deal. And so they robbed B/S of their deserved moment in the spotlight and got the undeserving S/P a medal.

People really need to get over the Cold War. Russia is always the big evil villain, aren't they? It's unacceptable the way people are constantly slandering them.

Majority of Russians always think that Russia is a victim of slander. One only need to read Russian newspapers or listen to Russian TV. Or read the forums.
It is they who did not got over the cold war.
As for robbing B/S of "their deserver moment in the spotlight" ......well. they got it.
Russians manipulated judges so many times, during the communists era and after, that it is no wonder that French newspapers suspect the 'fix' [I repeat it for you, it was French newspapers that got the story, not the Canadian ones] particularly with inflated men/women points.
So it is the Russians who should get over the feeling of being a victims, not Canadians.
It is unacceptable that majority of Russians are always slandering others.

 

[katia]

The last time I read the news wasn't the United States the ones that were all torn up about the Olympics in Russia...the United States were upset with the Russians because of a certain man named Snowden, that they have given exile to. Everyone up in arms because Russia wouldn't give him back. Now the propaganda is being spewed from the US to try to say that Russia and Canada are at odds with each other. Canada and Russia have a very friendly relationship. They know who is trying to stir the sh--. All you hear the you guys ..she was robbed. Here's a fact that you may not know, Virtue and Moir are two of the most decorated skaters in the world....whose jealous of whom...the woodpecker or the swan. Get your fact straight or are you one of those fans that got nothing to say but playground reactions like nah, nah, nah, your jealous cause she got her man...oh my..grow up. Now let's get back to talking about the Olympic. May the best skater win. Good luck

I think you are mixing two things - politics and sport.
In politics it is not only Snowden that US is upset about, it is also conflict in Syria, Afghanistan, (nuclear) Iran where Russian support mullahs and a lot of other things. They fight for spheres of influence as do all nations.
Of course sport is connected to that strife, particularly in Russia and in China. "We got more medals we are the best." "We are the top dog" Some Americans also think that way but Russians are much more nationalistics (or patriotics, if you know what I mean)
But I would like to stress It is not US papers nor the Canadian ones who started that spat over "fix" The French started it. The French.
So stop saying that "the propaganda is being spewed from the US" It really shows that you think like some Russians............ or Chinese.
And to be truthfull some French do not like Americans nor do they like Russians.
So perhaps they just wanted to start the fight, stand by and laugh?
Have you thought about it all from that perspective?

 

[Ryan O]

And this is what we should all rally around and be concerned about. There is something really rotten in the scoring in Sochi, and not just ice dance. It's a little the technical calling, but really bad with the PCS and GOE. And it hasn't just been in Sochi, it was also at Cup of Russia and also GPF. There have been rumours for months and into last year that the results for the Olympics were already being orchestrated. It may or may not be about some master plan fix. But I think the best strategy for the ISU to protect the sport of skating is to take this in hand right now, before the individual events.

Some of us certainly noticed that a number of the Canadian skaters dropped dramatically at the Cup of Russia this past November compared to other GP events. I don't remember all the scores, but I remember noticing that both Canadian dance teams of W&P and G&P dropped around 10 points from their previous events. G&P had received about 144 at NHK, but dropped to 134 at Cup of Russia, and W&P dropped from about 175 at Skate Canada to 163 at COR. W&P should have been closer in score to B&S, and G&P should have been closer in score to M&K (who got a lower score at TEB than G&P got at NHK).

Obviously scores vary in relation somewhat per event depending on who the technical panel is composed of and who is skating in the field, but the lower tech scores for the Canadian dance teams at COR still stood out somewhat. Whether or not this has any greater significance for the Olympics may be too soon to tell until later this month.

 

[Ziggy]

When they don't like the results, they cook up a fix or a scandal- anything to create doubts about the merits of the winners.

Yeah, we have seen it before.

As somebody who is totally indifferent to both V/M and D/W, it's very obvious to me that D/W are just on a different level at the moment.

 

[sky_fly20]

Then why this info was published in FRENCH magazine (Equipe) and not Canadian one?
And seeing that Plushenko won men free, not to mention inflated points for Russian skaters I tend to agree with the story of the fix

lol if you think Canada should have won
Osmond fell on her butt and V/M were crsuhed by D/W both times
losing levels, disaster twizzles and with lift problems as usual

poor Canada only 4 medals so far in Sochi

 

[NoNameFace]

poor Canada is so desperate that it had to relay even the article to all their media
as they know their only hope for OGM are the technically depleted V/M who have constantly been defeated by D/W
and to make matters worse, Yuzu is the favored for the men's not Chan so there goes two

but this is not the first case, Canada are known to be whiners and whenever they lsoe they think it is fixed

you really enjoy this, don't you? I think you should start running some kind of 'anti-Canada' agency, you have some serious dedication to pull it through and I predict a big success for you...

this is a small world of people who practically live for detecting/rising some rumours, scandals, theories - and this people created this on their own because of criteria of jugding system so it is an inner closed circle which starts before some major event , gets faster during it and closes after usually with some 'bang'...So for me there is no suprise that some of conspiracy theories rose - I'm used to find it 'natural' in this sport. Just bad for skaters from involved nations - their eventual medals will be all questioned after that gig regardless if they will be got fairly or not