2014 Olympics Ladies Free Skate

[tjskate]

What a great battle. So very happy for Kostner that she finally got an Olympic medal! And for Yuna being able to come back off of injury and win a silver.

I haven't been able to view it yet, so will reserve comments about Adelina. One thing to remember about Program Components - it isn't necessarily about whether the skater skates in a graceful or balletic way, but whether they interpret their music well, their skating skills, their speed...their "style" may be different than what someone's preference is. Adelina in my mind still has some developing to do, but if she skated lights out today then it could very well be that the judges gave value to that.

The same judges tend to judge all international events, so to say that because an event is in one country and a person from that country has a breakthrough win means some type of conspiracy seems simplistic to me. There's too many elements that have to fall into place, unless you believe that all the judges all across the board decided to give up their integrity and future judging opportunities to accept some sort of bribe. Really?

 

[sowcow]

.

Wow... I really have no words ... Seriously.... And I still defended all of those judges in other programs, believing that they were somehow right ... Adelina was definitely not worth the gold... this was just disgusting. Yuna should have been the 1'st, it was obvious. Her skating was just flawless today and I'm no fan of her.

When exactly did you do all this previous "defending ... of those judges"?

From your profile, it appears you joined the forum just 2.5 days ago (Feb 17th); and according to your post-counter, this is the 1st post you have made.

Or have I misunderstood you? (...in which case, my apologies - just a reaction to the flood of 1st-time posters expressing 'negative' sentiments)
.

 

[ElleK]

Wow... I really have no words ... Seriously.... And I still defended all of those judges in other programs, believing that they were somehow right ... Adelina was definitely not worth the gold... this was just disgusting. Yuna should have been the 1'st, it was obvious. Her skating was just flawless today and I'm no fan of her. Our commentators were already calling her the winner and congratulating her before the scores and then the *** moment happened. I think this is one of the biggest *** moments in my whole life.
I'm just happy for Mao, I liked her performance the best and honestly it was the most touching one I have ever seen What a shame about her sp ...

What a shame about Mao's FS scores! Putin's judges did their job they deserved some oil money now.
Event began with ridiculous PCS scores for Russian pair in SP over ! 4-time WC.

 

[AnastasiaO]

Everyone except Mao. How on earth would you give her 69, with Yuna she's the most talented and beautiful skater the sport have ever seen, such a shame !!!!

 

[pororocheburashka]

Is this the final result?
Any option for official complaining -review- left?

 

[starrynight]

She benefitted from Olympic Score Inflation, which happens at almost every Olympics since the sport and this scoring system is not obsessed with numbers.

If you put too much emphasis on the numbers you get lost and miss the greater picture.

The placements matter more than the numbers.

Wasting time asking questions like "Can someone tell me how Adelina is better than Kostner in PCS" misses the point that Adelina totally outskated Kostner in the FS and rightfully beat her by 5+ points like she should have given Kostner's jumps and spins in that program, as well as the coffee breaks in the choreography.

Same goes for Yuna. Sotnikova was on fire. Yuna did crossovers around the rink predominately in one direction and did less technical content and more spins. In order to not penalize Yuna's PCS (like it actually should have been) for those mediocre programs, the judges decided to just boost Sotnikova's because she gave a better performance.

Again, Numbers are only a means to an end. The placements are what matters.

Oh, no. Just go back to your own post and read it again. You singled out her for the "Vancouver" benefit, not as one of a group of veterans whose PSC got inflated together through years of competition.

 

[Gigi13]

I can't wait to watch this on NBC tonight I wanna see how Sandra and Scott react. *preparing myself for the yells*

 

[WeakAnkles]

Everyone was scored high, yes. And that is exactly what is the problem. Skaters getting mindless, automaton PCS marks which reflect the technical level and 'an overall impression' of the performance instead of how well the PCS criteria were satisfied.

Perhaps a separate PCS panel with the judging panel again giving GOE marks for performance?

9.5 for "choreography." I just can't, Ziggy. It's a travesty.

 

[fahrenheit290]

No wonder why the Russians were so upset Plushenko couldn't compete. It would've been a guaranteed gold medal.

Of course, Tara Lipinski said Adelina should have won, saying the skater with heart should win. Those were the same reasons bolstering her win in Nagano (vs. the artistically superior Kwan).

I don't expect the commentators in Prime Time to say anything. They don't want to ruffle feathers, they want to be politically correct because not doing this makes everyone upset these days. Unfortunately, I think the numbers were flat out wrong. Adelina's jumps were all perfect but then Mao was called out for mistakes, after giving the performance of the night (forgotten because it came so much earlier).

 

[cheerio2]

I think Caro should have won. She skated two clean programs with beauty and elegance. Sotnikova's technical skills are undeniable but her artistry is WAY behind either Caro or Yuna, so I would have had her third.

 

[millie]

It is hard because the 3 top skaters were deficient in different ways. Sotnikova had all those jumps but the skating is coarse. Kim has those perfect positions and extension but was a little flat. Carolina got through it, it was beautiful but cautious like Kim. And, not so much athletic skill as S. So, all feels a little muttled.

Kim was 9 points lower than Vancouver. No one can expect to stay on the top when their scores are coming down.

As for Gracie and Americans. Davis and White have shown the way. You must have passion about improving yourself and the sport. And, tolerance for highly detailed work - day in day out. Just trying to squeeze a few more points out of your program won´t work. The skating 4 years from now will be totally evolved. If half the field now has 3-3 combination the winners in 2018 will have to have quads and multiple 3-3´s. Like Davis and White they will have to study the forms - dance styles, esthetics - of the material they persent. A few Egyptian hand movements and eyeliner won´t cut it (sorry Kaitlan ).

All the hair dye in the world could not help Gracie win the gold. Anyone that has seen or heard her on the media knows that she is a dumb dyed blonde. You Americans think that you are the best and putting other people down is a joke. Kaetlyn is a beautiful girl and a lovely skater.....she did wonderful for a skater that has been out most of the season due to injuries. I had to respond to your post with negativity because that's all people like you deserve. No wonder other countries dislike Americans the way they do.

 

[raress]

Worst Olympics ever!!Kostner or Kim should have won!And the Russian audience is s**t,I heard them cheering when Gracie fell!Shame,Adelina was good but not the winner,I'm done with this sport!!!

 

[skating-lover]

The fact Sotnikova got PCS that high, higher than Kostner's and almost as high as Kim's is absolutely ridiculous. She has poor posture, carriage and lines, both of her programs had very little relation to the music in terms of style or character and her timing was mostly off. Her basic skating is pretty good but it's not great and it's not at the level of some of the other top skaters either.

Her technical elements were extremely impressive in both programs and a few quibbles aside, her high TES scores were largely justified. But the PCS were not.

As compelling as the 'Russians bribed everybody' discourse is, cultural, social and psychological processes are usually more complex than that and in reality there never is a big bad villain who is responsible for whatever is wrong with the world.

What I think happened is that because Sotnikova genuinely skated well technically in both programs, bolstered by the huge support of the audience, the judges simply went with her on the PCS as well. Anchoring, plain and simple. An overall positive impression got carried over to all of the marks.

If you ever try to judge a program in real time, you will notice that when the program is over, you have spent pretty much the entire time thinking about the GOE of the technical elements. The music finished and you probably don't even remember much about what happened in between. Which is why panels should be split into GOE and PCS judges, IMO.

Secondly, not all of the judges had ballet or dance training and even if they did as skaters, they might not know much about it in terms of looking from the outside. So if a skater is totally off-time, they might not even notice that.

Finally, the looming shadow of the corridor means you are likely to mark how you expect the others to and will try to keep all of your marks 'in line' without obvious outliers.

There's probably many other factors you could come up with, those are just off the top of my head.

I feel really crushed about this result because it's just not fair to the skaters who have worked hard to develop proper basics, master better choreography and actually bother to skate to the music instead of right through it.

exactly. right on target!

 

[tjskate]

What a shame about Mao's FS scores! Putin's judges did their job they deserved some oil money now.
Event began with ridiculous PCS scores for Russian pair in SP over ! 4-time WC.

Have you looked at Mao's elements? She unfortunately had two of her triples downgraded to doubles. A triple axel still doesn't get the same base value as a triple-triple. I was thrilled with her skate and so glad she was able to pull if off today; love her!

And what do you mean by "Putin's judges?" Do you realize that NONE of the judges on the panel, or the technical specialists, were Russian?

 

[starrynight]

As usual, there's Elvis Stojko to stir the pot.

:yes: Always there for dissonant opinions.

 

[Panini]

I don't think Adelina deserves those PCS marks either but why isn't there the same amount of outrage about Hanyu's PCS going up exponentially in the span of one season? Is it because Yuna is well-liked and Patrick Chan isn't?

 

[mateusp1]

PCs ... The Highest to the Lowest:

-Skills

Kim: 9.25
Adelina: 9.18
Caro: 9.14
Asada: 8.75
Julia: 8.68

Adelina's skating skills better than Carolina's? Really? This is so ridiculous. I am disgusted.

-Transitions

Kim: 8.96
Adelina: 8.96
Caro: 8.71
Julia: 8.46
Asada: 8.36

-Performance/Execution

Kim: 9.43
Adelina: 9.43
Caro: 9.43
Asada: 8.79
Julia: 8.68

-Choreography

Adelina: 9.50
Kim: 9.39
Caro: 9.21
Julia: 9.00
Asada: 8.79

-Interpretation

Caro: 9.61
Kim: 9.57
Adelina: 9.43
Julia: 8.96
Asada: 8.86

 

[elif]

I don't think Adelina deserves those PCS marks either but why isn't there the same amount of outrage about Hanyu's PCS going up exponentially in the span of one season? Is it because Yuna is well-liked and Patrick Chan isn't?

For me: YES

 

[sorrentosue]

This is my first post. Thanks to everyone for such insightful comments. I have been watching skating since 1968 (yes, I'm THAT old). Judging in figure skating and gymnastics has been political for years. So it's no surprise that Adelina got the GM. Her technique is good but the PC is nowhere near Yuna or Carolina. But the Olympics are being held in Russia, so there we are. Congrats to Mao for proving she is a true champion with a brave champion's heart. I'm so happy for Carolina for giving us two beautiful programs and for giving Italy it's first skating medal. The podium should have been Yuna, Carolina and Adelina in my opinion. But c'est la vie. At least the women skated clean unlike the men.

 

[yuki]

Same with PCS. People here treat PCS like it's on "Maturity/Beauty" mark when there is a ton of criteria in all of those PCS categories. Just cause someone was an 8.5 last month doesn't necessarily mean they can't be a 9 today...

Do you know the criteria for PCS? If yes, do you find it probable that Adelina would go from 8.64 in SS to 9.18, from 8.50 in TR to 8.96 and from 8.86 in CH to 9.50 in the one month between Euros and the Olympics?
Adelina was massively overscored in PCS and could have won even without this. Her 69.60 PCS at Europeans, which was generous already, would have still given her the win here and I'm willing to bet that there would be far less people crying foul if she got that. She helped her cause by skating very well, but if they were going to give her the win anyway, they could at least have been subtle about it.