2014 Olympics Ladies Free Skate

[Mishaminion]

She hasn't skated a clean LP this season (I think), and this was the first time she's performed the program with 8-triples. She's been performing 2 T-As in her LP up to Sochi. She deserved way higher than the score she got, and should've won the LP.

Well Mao certainly gets a sentimental gold in my mind for her comeback, so I won't argue your point.

Even so, Mao was overscored in her GPs... especially the GPF. So it's not as simple to compare anyway.

 

[Ophelia]

They're looping Mao into the discussion bc it's an example of how the Russian scores were inflated. The media presents the issue as Sotnikova won bc she had more difficulty in her program, and that argument is completely debunked when you see how Mao lost by 7 points to Sotnikova even though she had the more difficult program. Another reason why Mao is brought in is because even Lipniskaia with her botched LP scored higher than Mao, so it raises some very valid concerns about the BIGGEST ISSUE with the Ladies Event - why were the Russian skaters' scores so inflated?

 

[miki88]

Agreed. I just don't like the way people are throwing Mao into the Yuna vs. Adelina discussion.

I'm amused some of the people praising Mao now were the same ones who criticized her so much before the games and not losing any chance to undermine her career. Seems like Adelina has officially replaced Mao in that tiresome debate.

 

[Mishaminion]

It was her personal best

And should've been higher,

I bet if she does it at worlds she'll get a World record

I hope she does!!

It would be wonderful to see Mao bow out with such an achievement.

 

[Mishaminion]

Just taking you back a sec:








"Rant" ?

You're projecting,
I'm not trying to attack you, Someone said the battle would've been between the Russians, You dismissed them out of hand,
I stated my opinions on the subject, I think it does do with it.

They said everyone scored lower than the Russians and I was simply confused because in Julia's case that is untrue.

I didn't really have an opinion before the ladies event, and I don't see the point in dwelling on what would have happened if Julia skated clean. She didn't.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

I'm amused some of the people praising Mao now were the same ones who criticized her so much before the games and not losing any chance to undermine her career. Seems like Adelina has officially replaced Mao in that tiresome debate.

Yes, exactly. That's why I have mixed feelings about a lot of the comments about Mao around here. It's like some people can suddenly be generous about her LP because she took herself out of contention with her SP. But her LP doesn't deserve "oh you're not dangerous to my fave anymore"-praise, it deserves real praise.
(I'm not accusing any single certain member of this, it's a general statement)

They're looping Mao into the discussion bc it's an example of how the Russian scores were inflated. The media presents the issue as Sotnikova won bc she had more difficulty in her program, and that argument is completely debunked when you see how Mao lost by 7 points to Sotnikova even though she had the more difficult program. Another reason why Mao is brought in is because even Lipniskaia with her botched LP scored higher than Mao, so it raises some very valid concerns about the BIGGEST ISSUE with the Ladies Event - why were the Russian skaters' scores so inflated?

If you're talking about the whole situation of judging here of course Mao's score is part of the argument. But "Adelina won because of TES" is majorily used in comparison to why she won over Yuna and Caro. That's my main beef with the public reaction to this: it looks like it's "Yuna vs. Adelina" for the media and majority of fans, and that alone. The judging problems are the arguments used to strengthen that point, but that looks like the wrong way around. There was so much wrong with the judging throughout the whole Olympics, but people mainly focusing on Yuna deserving Gold over Adelina feels like it allows for the ISU to chicken out on the actual problem. No previously banned judges on panels please. No inconsistent technical callers. No anonymity for the judges anymore. The way the majority of articles I saw and that petition going around is set up, I guess if the ISU would feel the need to do anything they'd give Yuna a second medal and everything looks well again. That's not what it should be, that's arguing with the result, not the cause.

 

[Spinerette]

I think the skaters in the final group usually (not most of them) get higher scores than the previous groups. It's something like the judges had previously agreed with each other. Group 1, 2 and 3 do not have medalist contenders, and Mao did skate badly in SP, so the judges had bad impression on her.

That's where it's wrong. Skaters should receive fair marks. It shouldn't matter when they skate. The only thing that should matter is how they skate right then and there. There should be no national bias. Yuna Kim and Carolina Kostner both deserved higher mark during the sp as well. Why did Adelina receive marks similar to Yuna and Carolina when Adelina performed an easier sp? Yuna and Carolina should have both received around a 77 or 78.

 

[DannyCurry]

Yes, exactly. That's why I have mixed feelings about a lot of the comments about Mao around here. It's like some people can suddenly be generous about her LP because she took herself out of contention with her SP. But her LP doesn't deserve "oh you're not dangerous to my fave anymore"-praise, it deserves real praise.
(I'm not accusing any single certain member of this, it's a general statement)



If you're talking about the whole situation of judging here of course Mao's score is part of the argument. But "Adelina won because of TES" is majorily used in comparison to why she won over Yuna and Caro. That's my main beef with the public reaction to this: it looks like it's "Yuna vs. Adelina" for the media and majority of fans, and that alone. The judging problems are the arguments used to strengthen that point, but that looks like the wrong way around. There was so much wrong with the judging throughout the whole Olympics, but people mainly focusing on Yuna deserving Gold over Adelina feels like it allows for the ISU to chicken out on the actual problem. No previously banned judges on panels please. No inconsistent technical callers. No anonymity for the judges anymore. The way the majority of articles I saw and that petition going around is set up, I guess if the ISU would feel the need to do anything they'd give Yuna a second medal and everything looks well again. That's not what it should be, that's arguing with the result, not the cause.

:thumbsup:

 

[Spinerette]

When I watched Kanako receive her scores I was surprised same with Mao, Meite, Akiko, Gracie, Ashley, Carolina, and Yuna. The competition was so wrong on so many levels. I had a feeling during the team competition when Plushenko was receiving extremely generous marks. But I had no idea that they would underscore practically everyone that night except for Julia and Adelina. It's an absolute disgrace.

 

[Ophelia]

If you're talking about the whole situation of judging here of course Mao's score is part of the argument. But "Adelina won because of TES" is majorily used in comparison to why she won over Yuna and Caro. That's my main beef with the public reaction to this: it looks like it's "Yuna vs. Adelina" for the media and majority of fans, and that alone. The judging problems are the arguments used to strengthen that point, but that looks like the wrong way around. There was so much wrong with the judging throughout the whole Olympics, but people mainly focusing on Yuna deserving Gold over Adelina feels like it allows for the ISU to chicken out on the actual problem. No previously banned judges on panels please. No inconsistent technical callers. No anonymity for the judges anymore. The way the majority of articles I saw and that petition going around is set up, I guess if the ISU would feel the need to do anything they'd give Yuna a second medal and everything looks well again. That's not what it should be, that's arguing with the result, not the cause.

I agree with this statement and have mentioned it many times that Adelina vs Yuna is merely an outcome of a bigger issue at play, which is being overlooked.

 

[sweetskates1]

I agree!

Yes, exactly. That's why I have mixed feelings about a lot of the comments about Mao around here. It's like some people can suddenly be generous about her LP because she took herself out of contention with her SP. But her LP doesn't deserve "oh you're not dangerous to my fave anymore"-praise, it deserves real praise.
(I'm not accusing any single certain member of this, it's a general statement)



If you're talking about the whole situation of judging here of course Mao's score is part of the argument. But "Adelina won because of TES" is majorily used in comparison to why she won over Yuna and Caro. That's my main beef with the public reaction to this: it looks like it's "Yuna vs. Adelina" for the media and majority of fans, and that alone. The judging problems are the arguments used to strengthen that point, but that looks like the wrong way around. There was so much wrong with the judging throughout the whole Olympics, but people mainly focusing on Yuna deserving Gold over Adelina feels like it allows for the ISU to chicken out on the actual problem. No previously banned judges on panels please. No inconsistent technical callers. No anonymity for the judges anymore. The way the majority of articles I saw and that petition going around is set up, I guess if the ISU would feel the need to do anything they'd give Yuna a second medal and everything looks well again. That's not what it should be, that's arguing with the result, not the cause.

 

[pangtongfan]

If you're talking about the whole situation of judging here of course Mao's score is part of the argument. But "Adelina won because of TES" is majorily used in comparison to why she won over Yuna and Caro. That's my main beef with the public reaction to this: it looks like it's "Yuna vs. Adelina" for the media and majority of fans, and that alone. The judging problems are the arguments used to strengthen that point, but that looks like the wrong way around. There was so much wrong with the judging throughout the whole Olympics, but people mainly focusing on Yuna deserving Gold over Adelina feels like it allows for the ISU to chicken out on the actual problem. No previously banned judges on panels please. No inconsistent technical callers. No anonymity for the judges anymore. The way the majority of articles I saw and that petition going around is set up, I guess if the ISU would feel the need to do anything they'd give Yuna a second medal and everything looks well again. That's not what it should be, that's arguing with the result, not the cause.

I wholeheartedly agree on this. The problem here runs WAY deeper than one result. Just giving Yu Na a second gold medal and doing nothing else would be the absolute worst thing. What needs to be done is a thorough investigation into what went on not only in the ladies event but the entire figure skating at these Games. The scores all Games long for certain rumored favored individuals (or alot of cases teams) were way out of line and something very fishy was up. The ISU also should use this scandal to examine some of their standards and guidelines in general. Having Shekhovtseva and Balkov on the ladies panel already looked bad and made the event look like an immediate fix instantly. Such judges should not even be in the sport together, let alone together on the panel judging the most important event. Why did V&T get +3s on two throws that were not cleanly done. That is inexcusable. On the norm you would expect such an element to get -1 in GOE. Why was there talk the gold had been fixed for D&W in a tradeoff with the Russians. Is there any truth to this. V&M were the only team to not record a SB in the SD despite skating sensationally. How did I&K make such an insane jump in points even from the Team Event when they were perfect. Why were Plushenko's PCS so high in the Team Event for those empty programs. I could go on awhile here.

The reason the focus is only on Yu Na and Adelina is because the ISU is making sure if there is a controversy that it is only directed at that. They dont want it going beyond that and the deeper roots of all the evil and corruption that are within the sport to come out. They in fact they dont want it to be resolved. Their hands are just too dirty for that.

One thing I must say is the IOC must put pressure on the ISU to clean up their act. This is something that should have been done in 2002, but instead it took Dick Pound to persuade then IOC leader Jacques Rogge to merely resort to the 2nd gold medal bandage, and accept the ISU doing nothing more than coming up with the stupid new scoring system we have today as the quick fix solution.

 

[Spinerette]

And Nathalie Weinzerl of Germany received very very low marks. And Julia with two falls and a stumble and other errors still managed to finish fifth ahead of Ashley and Mao. Polina Edmunds received very low marks in the sp as well. Ridiculous.

 

[pangtongfan]

And Nathalie Weinzerl of Germany received very very low marks. And Julia with two falls and a stumble and other errors still managed to finish fifth ahead of Ashley and Mao. Polina Edmunds received very low marks in the sp as well. Ridiculous.

Exactly. The entire Olympic Figure Skating event displayed horrible judging from start to finish. Even the Team Event. The 3 medalists in the Team Event, arguably the 3 medalists in the pairs event, arguably the 3 medalists in the mens event, and arguably the 3 medalists in the dance event were right in the end. That is aside the point though. Plus as you said it is not just about the potential medal winners. Everyone who competes deserves the chance for a fair evaluation. There were still many distrubing patterns, many unacceptable scores given, and the rumored fixes all seem to be true when one observes the scoring patterns. The whole thing should be examined and investigated thoroughly but the ISU is corrupt as heck so would not do this as it would be investigating themselves.

This whole quadrennial have been filled with controvresial in fact. Chan has had atleast 4 highly controversial wins, and those were never examined in depth to what exactly was going on behind the scenes possibly, and why the judges were scoring so wrong. They simply just brush it under the rug and keep chugging along.

 

[Spinerette]

Exactly. The entire Olympic Figure Skating event displayed horrible judging from start to finish. Even the Team Event. The 3 medalists in the Team Event, arguably the 3 medalists in the pairs event, arguably the 3 medalists in the mens event, and arguably the 3 medalists in the dance event were right in the end. That is aside the point though. Plus as you said it is not just about the potential medal winners. Everyone who competes deserves the chance for a fair evaluation. There were still many distrubing patterns, many unacceptable scores given, and the rumored fixes all seem to be true when one observes the scoring patterns. The whole thing should be examined and investigated thoroughly but the ISU is corrupt as heck so would not do this as it would be investigating themselves.

This whole quadrennial have been filled with controvresial in fact. Chan has had atleast 4 highly controversial wins, and those were never examined in depth to what exactly was going on behind the scenes possibly, and why the judges were scoring so wrong. They simply just brush it under the rug and keep chugging along.

I thought Pang and Tong should have received bronze in pairs. Pechalat and Bourzat should have won bronze in dance. Ilinykh and Katsalapov did not deserve that bronze and the worst part was Pechalat and Bourzat finished behind Bobrova and Soloviev. Weaver and Poje were receiving extremely low marks as well. Even Cappellini and Lanotte performed better than Bobrova and Soloviev. And for the people who argue about the technical side being a factor, Pechalat and Bourzat had a much more difficult dance program than Ilinykh and Katsalapov. So does the technical side really matter?

 

[caelum]

Exactly. The entire Olympic Figure Skating event displayed horrible judging from start to finish. Even the Team Event. The 3 medalists in the Team Event, arguably the 3 medalists in the pairs event, arguably the 3 medalists in the mens event, and arguably the 3 medalists in the dance event were right in the end. That is aside the point though. Plus as you said it is not just about the potential medal winners. Everyone who competes deserves the chance for a fair evaluation.

Without wading into the specifics of who should or shouldn't have won, I think it's worth pointing out that we can't disentangle the unfair scoring from the actual placements. The skater's aren't stupid, they know when someone is being propped up unjustifiably. This has two effects, it both makes them believe they need to skate inordinately well to be competitive, which adds a lot more pressure, and knowing the deck is stacked against you has a strong demoralizing effect. Both of those can dramatically affect a performance. This is why it's nonsense to say that the scores don't matter because the placement is right. People don't understand how people are scored can change the placements themselves.

 

[pangtongfan]

I thought Pang and Tong should have received bronze in pairs. Pechalat and Bourzat should have won bronze in dance. Ilinykh and Katsalapov did not deserve that bronze and the worst part was Pechalat and Bourzat finished behind Bobrova and Soloviev. Weaver and Poje were receiving extremely low marks as well. Even Cappellini and Lanotte performed better than Bobrova and Soloviev. And for the people who argue about the technical side being a factor, Pechalat and Bourzat had a much more difficult dance program than Ilinykh and Katsalapov. So does the technical side really matter?

Well there is a reason I said only arguably for pairs, men, and dance as even those arent inarguable. Only the Team medals are unquestioned. What is certain is the scoring was way off the mark in every discipline and there was some major corruption and event fixing at play.

 

[zamboni step]

Where did you get that impression from?
PTF is the same as always, even said he/she thinks Adelina is personally to blame for the bad judging too! It doesn't get worse then that. The upside: Adelina said being left of the team event was what gave her the main motivation, that she'd show all the doubters and try her all to get on that podium. If doubt and hate make her stronger, it might make her a better competitor next season. It would be funny if she dominated the next seasons and we could see PTF exploding or bursting from all the hate

Btw, your ava is the most beautiful thing! Mao's LP was the moment of the Olympics for me, and I'm still not over it. I'm more angered with Mao getting robbed of her rightful 4th place finish and her LP win than the overall medal scandal. And when Mao smiled afterwards and said she was satisfied with herself, I couldn't help but feel all happy too.

Because they were nice about Mao's program and that made me think maybe things had changed a little, I was blissfully hopeful and naive maybe. If doubt and hate were a motivator then we're in for her landing most of the quads next season

Thank you, I love that picture, it really incapsulates how I feel about how she must have found redemption for her other mistakes at the Olympics. She should have broken the world record in my opinion, I don't recall ever feeling so emotionally involved with a performance. I was never more happy/proud to be her fan then at that moment.

 

[Spinerette]

Exactly. The entire Olympic Figure Skating event displayed horrible judging from start to finish. Even the Team Event. The 3 medalists in the Team Event, arguably the 3 medalists in the pairs event, arguably the 3 medalists in the mens event, and arguably the 3 medalists in the dance event were right in the end. That is aside the point though. Plus as you said it is not just about the potential medal winners. Everyone who competes deserves the chance for a fair evaluation. There were still many distrubing patterns, many unacceptable scores given, and the rumored fixes all seem to be true when one observes the scoring patterns. The whole thing should be examined and investigated thoroughly but the ISU is corrupt as heck so would not do this as it would be investigating themselves.

This whole quadrennial have been filled with controvresial in fact. Chan has had atleast 4 highly controversial wins, and those were never examined in depth to what exactly was going on behind the scenes possibly, and why the judges were scoring so wrong. They simply just brush it under the rug and keep chugging along.

IJS is a very flawed system. The problem is that the clean skate no longer matters as we saw Chan's win last year with two falls and other numerous mistakes. There are only 1 point deductions!?!? Also Chan's lead after the sp was so enormous that no mere moral except for a Chan twin could have caught up to that level. Yuzuru's PCS is also very high. I don't see that much artistry in him. He's no Takahashi, Hanyu's foot work doesn't flow as well as the other top men, he hardly skates to the music in the fs. I also think that the sp and the fs should be added up as a percentage like back in the 6.0 days. It's a confusing system. A skater who bombed in the sp could win the fs if he/she does enough quads and does big jumps after the half way mark. Also same goes for the sp, if one does two quads and a triple axel, he/she could have enough points to bomb the fs and still win. I guess the prime example was Chan last year.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

Thank you, I love that picture, it really incapsulates how I feel about how she must have found redemption for her other mistakes at the Olympics. She should have broken the world record in my opinion, I don't recall ever feeling so emotionally involved with a performance. I was never more happy/proud to be her fan then at that moment.

Yes, that's exactly what I felt like too. Her LP is a masterpiece beyond medal or score, and I'm just glad she feels that way too (she said in an interview, all things considered, this was her favorite skate of her career and that she continued skating for a moment like this).

On a shallow note, I'm glad she changed back to this beautiful dress for the SOHL too