2014 Olympics Ladies Free Skate

[Isabel_O'Reilly]

I think that the passion and emotion were directed at the performance. I felt her emotion through my TV set.
I agree that receiving the same score as Yuna in 2010 is ridiculous, but so was Yuna's score in 2010.
Breaking character in order to wave to the audience is quite common by all skaters...
As for edge calls-I'm no tech specialist, so i'll leave that to them...
That's why I said I think she should have won the bronze...
I do see the argument for her wining gold...

Actually, I went to go look at the protocols. Jump GOE was scored differently.(Higher for +2 than it is now for example). Yuna was able to do three double Axels, therefore she had a higher jump BV even than Adelina) and there was an extra element that Yuna received 5.40 (BV + GOE) points for in both the short and long program. Take that element away from her score and she would have been at 217 points instead of 228. Meanwhile Adelina for less elements and lower difficulty in the SP received 224 points. Basically the judges said these were the best two programs in the history of skating. Is that true, no. So there is something seriously wrong with the way the tech panel and judges were set up. And we all know what those problems were.

http://www.isuresults.com/results/owg2010/ Go look for yourselves. Seeing what Yuna received for much more and what Adelina received for much less, you'll be just as incredulous as I am.

 

[96skiluvr]

To be honest, I have never had the privilege to watch a skate with such a profound synergistic effect that was simultaneously mesmerizing, melancholy, liberating and joyous, with the added bonus of mathematical precision and complexity that stretched the very limits of athleticism and spirituality, as if Rachmaninoff’s soul itself had returned to earth with the express purpose of inhabiting her body to redeem her humiliation. She descended into the depths of Dante’s Hell only to rise from the ashes as a Phoenix to soar off in flight to Paradise. Ironically, this composer was an exiled Russian- just as Dante was an exiled Italian- mired in relative obscurity at the time of composing what is widely considered to be one of the great piano concertos of all time, and I can’t help but think that his spirit and her performance in the country of his birth will render judgement on those corrupt judges who stingily and greedily deprived her of her rightful bronze medal, the greatest Olympic comeback of all time, and perhaps new world record by dumping her in the Hades of 6th place behind an inflated trio she has consistently beaten in competition. And a LP this good should make up the difference for the low SP score quite nicely in a just comparison.

What the hell are you saying? Why do you feel a constant need to ramble about nonsense on the forum?

 

[usethis2]

What the hell are you saying? Why do you feel a constant need to ramble about nonsense on the forum?

gotoschool's post count is 1. It is a stretch to call it a constant need or anything continuous.

 

[96skiluvr]

gotoschool's post count is 1. It is a stretch to call it a constant need or anything continuous.

It's clearly the same person who writes the crazy things about Lipnitskaia, just using a different account because the old one was likely banned

 

[usethis2]

I am of the view the uptick in Gold's Pcs partially was part of the collusion in boosting the Russians. This way people might not so obviously see a fix solely for a Russian to podium/ win.

Gold has improved artistically with her Olympic lp, but her similar degree of jump in pcs, like Sotnikova and Lipnitskaia, probably was cover for the goal of a Russian victory; just IMO.

It's not exactly a cover but rather part of the deal and mutual understanding. Imagine why Ashley started opening her mouth while Gracie kept relative silence.

 

[Jammers]

It's not exactly a cover but rather part of the deal and mutual understanding. Imagine why Ashley started opening her mouth while Gracie kept relative silence.

Gold has no reason to open her mouth like Ashley. She is just letting her skating do the talking.

 

[usethis2]

Gold has no reason to open her mouth like Ashley. She is just letting her skating do the talking.

Of course. If my score went up 10+ in less than a week then I would make sure as hell to keep my mouth shut.

 

[Spinerette]

The IOC printed fake quotes from Yuna Kim and her agency has caught it. According to the IOC, Yuna said "She put on a great show, she's a highly technical skater and was very difficult to beat tonight. i saw her in Innsbruck as part of my role as games ambassador. We both battled for gold tonight, but she managed to come out on top." After Kim's agency caught the fake quotes, they had them removed but did not state that they put out fake quotes.

http://www.thewire.com/culture/2014...ising-adelina-sotnikova/358956/#disqus_thread

This is getting even more ridiculous, they made such an amateurish attempt at covering this up. IOC should have just kept quiet and let time pass.

 

[jand0387]

I would like to post something here for people who say Yuna played it safe with no triple loop and no double axel / Triple Toe loop;

Over the years, ISU rule book has not been on Yuna side - if anything, it was as if ISU found ways to bring down Yuna's mark.

1. Scale of Value
When someone is given GOE, let's say +1, when it is translated into an actual mark, it becomes calculated according to Scale of value - For a lutz jump, scale of value is 0.7 (based on 2013-2014 rulebook). So if you got +1 GOE for Lutz, you actually get 0.7 additional marks. Ever since Va
ncouver 2010 when Yuna received sky rocketed GOEs, ISU was scrutinized by (Japanese sponsors who were angry that Mao didn't win). So ISU decided to change the rule so that Scale of Value was lower. This was a huge disadvantage for skaters like Yuna who tends to get lots of points from high GOEs for her perfect execution of the elements.

2. Triple Axel base value increase
After Vancouver, ISU increased the base value for more "difficult jumps" (and they solely meant Triple Axel) - According to their logic, Triple lutz, second highest base value and the second most difficult triple jump after axel, should have gotten an increase too. But Lutz base value (Yuna's programs have many lutz) didn't increase. But only triple axel base value had an increase. Who is behind this? Massive Japanese sponsors' force, of course!! Mao benefits from this because, although she is a solid and strong skater, her success rate of landing a perfect triple axel has actually been very low - she either fell while doing the jump, or she under-rotated it most of the time. But judges have been generous with overlooking the under-rotation. Now that the base value of triple axel increased, Mao was able to get high points with Triple Axel, even with mistakes and deductions.

2. 2A-3T (Double Axel - Triple Toe Loop) vs 3S2T (triple salchow double toe loop)
This makes me really angry actually because 2A-3T used to be Yuna's own thing and her signature move - Back in Vancouver, Yuna had 2A-3T and back then, only Yuna could pull it off because it was a very difficult combination. In Vancouver, three 2A (double axels) in one program were allowed - So Yuna had 2A3T, 2A2T2Lo, and 2A - and this was said to be technically very difficult program. But after Vancouver, the rule changed so that three 2A were NOT allowed. So Yuna had to give up on one of the 2A and it ended up being 2A3T. She could have kept 2A3T and do 3F2T2Lo (triple flip, double toe, double loop - what Adelina did) but why should she give up on 2A2T2Lo which she has always been doing? Because of this, instead of 2A3T, Yuna had to settle for 3S2T (Triple Salchow double toe loop), which has less base value. Besides, Yuna has been suffering all kinds of chronic injuries, so why should she risk further injuries? Looking out for your body's capabilities is not playing safe - it's a strategy!!!

3. Triple Loop vs Triple Lutz
Some say (I think new york times article said this) Yuna lost because of not having a triple loop? But Yuna did extra triple lutz, which is technically more difficult and has higher base value - Adelina can't do lutz, by the way, due to her flutz habit (wrong edge lutz), but Yuna does not do Triple loop because of injuries.

So all in all, if Yuna was able to do 2A3T, (if the rule didn't prohibit!) Yuna would have had 2A3T, 2A2T2Lo, 2A, 3Lz - so basically technical base value would be close zero - evened out. The difference in 3F2T2Lo vs 2A2T2Lo (Yuna has less points here) would have been made up by Triple Lutz vs Triple Loop difference (Lutz has higher base value)!!

So who says Yuna played it safe? She was actually forced by the ISU rulebook!!

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Looking out for your body's capabilities is not playing safe - it's a strategy!!!

Not a winning strategy in an athletic event, unfortunately.

 

[dorispulaski]

The ability of other members of the ISU to make it harder for skaters to rack up huge scores by changing the rules has always been a feature of judged sports, including skating.

The Zayak rule was initiated to limit Elaine' s advantage over other skaters. At the time, skaters were still allowed to do an unlimited number of 2A' s, but could do triple jumps only twice, once in combination and once solo. When 2A was added to the Zayak rule, but without the requirement for the second Axel to be in combination, it did limit what skaters, like YuNa, who had no 3A and wanted to omit another triple could score.

BTW, you missed one rule that was changed that disadvantaged YuNa. The score you could receive for 3F 1/2 Lp 3S was increased to make it a three jump combination rather than a two jump sequence. Not only does a skater, like Polina Edmunds, who does that combo, avoid getting 0.8 multiplied by her base value, she gets a bogus 1 Lp added to the BV.

It now gets a BV of 10.00. Done in the bonus 11.00 BV.

Without that rule, she would receive ( 5.3 + 4.2 )* 0.8. BV. = 9.5 * 0.8. = 7 .6

That's a huge difference.

It is fair, in the sense that YuNa could learn such a jump combo, but it is clearly a disadvantage to have to learn it to get the score.

Plus a 3S was worth 4.5 in Vancouver, but only worth 4.2 in 2014.

 

[zamboni step]

2. 2A-3T (Double Axel - Triple Toe Loop) vs 3S2T (triple salchow double toe loop)
This makes me really angry actually because 2A-3T used to be Yuna's own thing and her signature move - Back in Vancouver, Yuna had 2A-3T and back then, only Yuna could pull it off because it was a very difficult combination. In Vancouver, three 2A (double axels) in one program were allowed - So Yuna had 2A3T, 2A2T2Lo, and 2A - and this was said to be technically very difficult program. But after Vancouver, the rule changed so that three 2A were NOT allowed. So Yuna had to give up on one of the 2A and it ended up being 2A3T. She could have kept 2A3T and do 3F2T2Lo (triple flip, double toe, double loop - what Adelina did) but why should she give up on 2A2T2Lo which she has always been doing? Because of this, instead of 2A3T, Yuna had to settle for 3S2T (Triple Salchow double toe loop), which has less base value. Besides, Yuna has been suffering all kinds of chronic injuries, so why should she risk further injuries? Looking out for your body's capabilities is not playing safe - it's a strategy!!!

Mao and Yu-Na started doing 2A-3T the same season! At the 2010 Olympics Mirai Nagasu also landed a 2A-3T, it was never her signature move and it was never something other skaters "Couldn't pull off." Also Miki Ando landed it at 2009 Worlds and actually got higher GOE for hers than Yu-Na did.

 

[dorispulaski]

Well, Elaine Zayak used to do 2A3T, so it's nothing new in the World.

 

[Nadya]

I would like to post something here for people who say Yuna played it safe with no triple loop and no double axel / Triple Toe loop;

Over the years, ISU rule book has not been on Yuna side - if anything, it was as if ISU found ways to bring down Yuna's mark.

1. Scale of Value
When someone is given GOE, let's say +1, when it is translated into an actual mark, it becomes calculated according to Scale of value - For a lutz jump, scale of value is 0.7 (based on 2013-2014 rulebook). So if you got +1 GOE for Lutz, you actually get 0.7 additional marks. Ever since Va
ncouver 2010 when Yuna received sky rocketed GOEs, ISU was scrutinized by (Japanese sponsors who were angry that Mao didn't win). So ISU decided to change the rule so that Scale of Value was lower. This was a huge disadvantage for skaters like Yuna who tends to get lots of points from high GOEs for her perfect execution of the elements.

2. Triple Axel base value increase
After Vancouver, ISU increased the base value for more "difficult jumps" (and they solely meant Triple Axel) - According to their logic, Triple lutz, second highest base value and the second most difficult triple jump after axel, should have gotten an increase too. But Lutz base value (Yuna's programs have many lutz) didn't increase. But only triple axel base value had an increase. Who is behind this? Massive Japanese sponsors' force, of course!! Mao benefits from this because, although she is a solid and strong skater, her success rate of landing a perfect triple axel has actually been very low - she either fell while doing the jump, or she under-rotated it most of the time. But judges have been generous with overlooking the under-rotation. Now that the base value of triple axel increased, Mao was able to get high points with Triple Axel, even with mistakes and deductions.

2. 2A-3T (Double Axel - Triple Toe Loop) vs 3S2T (triple salchow double toe loop)
This makes me really angry actually because 2A-3T used to be Yuna's own thing and her signature move - Back in Vancouver, Yuna had 2A-3T and back then, only Yuna could pull it off because it was a very difficult combination. In Vancouver, three 2A (double axels) in one program were allowed - So Yuna had 2A3T, 2A2T2Lo, and 2A - and this was said to be technically very difficult program. But after Vancouver, the rule changed so that three 2A were NOT allowed. So Yuna had to give up on one of the 2A and it ended up being 2A3T. She could have kept 2A3T and do 3F2T2Lo (triple flip, double toe, double loop - what Adelina did) but why should she give up on 2A2T2Lo which she has always been doing? Because of this, instead of 2A3T, Yuna had to settle for 3S2T (Triple Salchow double toe loop), which has less base value. Besides, Yuna has been suffering all kinds of chronic injuries, so why should she risk further injuries? Looking out for your body's capabilities is not playing safe - it's a strategy!!!

3. Triple Loop vs Triple Lutz
Some say (I think new york times article said this) Yuna lost because of not having a triple loop? But Yuna did extra triple lutz, which is technically more difficult and has higher base value - Adelina can't do lutz, by the way, due to her flutz habit (wrong edge lutz), but Yuna does not do Triple loop because of injuries.

So all in all, if Yuna was able to do 2A3T, (if the rule didn't prohibit!) Yuna would have had 2A3T, 2A2T2Lo, 2A, 3Lz - so basically technical base value would be close zero - evened out. The difference in 3F2T2Lo vs 2A2T2Lo (Yuna has less points here) would have been made up by Triple Lutz vs Triple Loop difference (Lutz has higher base value)!!

So who says Yuna played it safe? She was actually forced by the ISU rulebook!!

That's not unique to Yuna; all skaters work within the rules as articulated by ISU, the entity that judges the events and ranks the skaters. It's not like they have a special set of particularly harsh rules for Kim and an easier playbook for everyone else. If other skaters can design programs that garner the most points under the current rules, so should Kim.

I don't think it matters WHY Kim doesn't do a triple loop - injury, childhood trauma based on bad dreams, strategy r physical limitations. There are no rules that add a bonus for skipping elements with a good reason.

I also don't think the "difficult jumps" bonus should necessarily reward triple lutzes. Yes, a lutz is a difficult jump but a pool of ladies who are able to do a triple lutz is much, much larger than a pool of ladies who can execute a triple axel. It follows, then, that the jump in difficulty from a lutz to an axel is much, much larger than the jump in difficulty between a lutz and the next easier jump. The ISU decide to reward the triple axel as a technical skill that's exponentially, exceptionally more difficult than everything else.

A ton of people do 2A-3T, since before Kim was in diapers. It's hardly Kim's trademark move.

 

[zamboni step]

Well, Elaine Zayak used to do 2A3T, so it's nothing new in the World.

Come to think of it, for such a difficult move no one other than Yu-Na could pull off....you have to wonder how Zhang/Zhang managed it as pair skaters even after she just fell in the splits.

 

[jand0387]

That's not unique to Yuna; all skaters work within the rules as articulated by ISU, the entity that judges the events and ranks the skaters. It's not like they have a special set of particularly harsh rules for Kim and an easier playbook for everyone else. If other skaters can design programs that garner the most points under the current rules, so should Kim.

I don't think it matters WHY Kim doesn't do a triple loop - injury, childhood trauma based on bad dreams, strategy r physical limitations. There are no rules that add a bonus for skipping elements with a good reason.

I also don't think the "difficult jumps" bonus should necessarily reward triple lutzes. Yes, a lutz is a difficult jump but a pool of ladies who are able to do a triple lutz is much, much larger than a pool of ladies who can execute a triple axel. It follows, then, that the jump in difficulty from a lutz to an axel is much, much larger than the jump in difficulty between a lutz and the next easier jump. The ISU decide to reward the triple axel as a technical skill that's exponentially, exceptionally more difficult than everything else.

A ton of people do 2A-3T, since before Kim was in diapers. It's hardly Kim's trademark move.

Yes, I correct, 2A3T was not unique to Kim - But I meant, to pull is off as clean as Yuna.
And Being able to do Lutz like textbook is very hard too - do you know how many skaters struggle with Flutz? Sotnikova, Lipnitskaya, and even Mao struggles with wrong edge with Triple Lutz.

And although it would be a tremendous gift to be able to do Triple Axel, many skaters don't attempt it because it messes up other triple jumps, no because they can't do it.