Analyzing Sotnikova and Kim's footwork in the FS

[kslr0816]

it seems any analysis or criticism of adelina's performance is labeled as anti adelina propaganda composed by yuna ubers. her performance is in question, which is why her performance is being analyzed in detail. if you have a problem with yuna, carolina, etc., etc.'s performance, do the analysis yourself. there's no rule that says you must analyze every skater's performance if you're going to analyze one. adelina's performance is the one that seems marked most incorrectly (that actually matters for the podium, cough yulia), so it is being looked at.

 

[usethis2]

Why is it BoP's burden to analyse Yuna's step sequences? No one gave BoP a job or paid him to do such thing. He volunteered and analyzed one skater's incorrectly marked performance and for that I am thankful. If he did Yuna's then what? What next? Why wouldn't these people demand Carolina's steps to be analyzed by BoP? Then Mao's, Gracie's, Yulia's.. Those who are determined to discredit BoP's work will not stop. I've learned of this disruption tactic : crowd the thread and repeat the same charge again and again until the speakers are exhausted and silenced.

Again, as much as I would love to read analysis on other skaters' steps, we should not be so confused that it is one person's obligation. This Tu Quoque tactic should stop. Everyone can bring her/his own analysis and rebuttals of any skater's performance.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

adelina's performance is the one that seems marked most incorrectly (that actually matters for the podium, cough yulia), so it is being looked at.

This is exactly why you should look at all the performances, because you think one "seems" to be marked the most incorrectly without even considering how the others are marked.

 

[Blades of Passion]

The rule actually reads: "Complexity must include at least 5 different types of turns and 3 different types of steps all executed at least once in both directions." I've copied and pasted from page 9 of your link. The comma you added and the bolding which would clarify the rule do not exist in the document. If instead you added a comma after "once", any 5 counterclockwise turns and 5 any counterclockwise turns would meet the requirement. There is in fact no comma so the rule isn't clear. Again, why don't you take the time to do the same analysis on Yuna and see if her steps would be level 4 under either interpretation?

A comma in any of those places does not change the meaning of the sentence.

You are purposefully misreading the rule to conform to you hatred of stonikova and her win! This thread is illegitimate lies.

I don't hate Sotnikova, you're the one who is making illegitimate lies. Why are you so defensive? Clearly you're trying to push some kind of agenda or want to hide something.

Neither of you seem to understand competitive skating rules. All competitive skating choreographers have understood the rule as such; this rule has been in place since the 2010-2011 season (even earlier than that, actually, but I can't recall exactly how long off the top of my head). That's why see you 5 different types of turns and 3 different types of steps all attempted in both directions in every Level 4 footwork sequence for the ENTIRE past 4 seasons.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Those who are determined to discredit BoP's work will not stop.

No one is discrediting BoP's hard work. Based on the analysis presented, a person could judge it level 3 or level 4 depending on how the rule is read.

 

[gmyers]

I'm sorry, but no, you do not get to talk about hate when you said you hoped Sotnikova would bomb Nationals. And criticised her every step of the way to this title. Now you're jumping on the band wagon, when I actually agree it was an undeserved win. Stop being a hypocrite.

She never once did her fs cleanly or even close to cleanly before the Olympics! She rarely ever did her 3 jump combo or messed up in some other way on her two triple flip plan. I was thinking that would continue but it didn't! The Russia fed was right to in keeping faith in sotnikova and I was incorrect! Now that she gave the best performance in 2014 ladies olympics competiton she deserves to be defended from outrageous lies and distortions and extreme hate.

 

[kslr0816]

This is exactly why you should look at all the performances, because you think one "seems" to be marked the most incorrectly without even considering how the others are marked.

maybe if the scores were based on some kind of ranking scale your comment would make sense. not in this case. you can analyze each performance individually thanks to how the points are structured. what you think of another skater's performance doesn't change the scoring of another's.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

NEITHER of you understand competitive skating, clearly. All competitive skating choreographers have understood the rule as such, this rule has been in place since the 2010-2011 season. That's why see you 5 different types of turns and 3 different types of steps all attempted in both directions in every Level 4 footwork sequence for the ENTIRE past 4 seasons.

Apparently Adelina's choreographer didn't get the memo.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

maybe if the scores were based on some kind of ranking scale your comment would make sense. not in this case. you can analyze each performance individually thanks to how the points are structured. what you think of another skater's performance doesn't change the scoring of another's.

You're the one who compares the programs, saying one "seems" more incorrectly scored than the others. Right?

 

[gmyers]

You don't understand English apparently. A comma in any of those places does not change the meaning of the sentence.



I don't hate Sotnikova, you're the one who is making illegitimate lies. Why are you so defensive? Clearly you're trying to push some kind of agenda or want to hide something.

NEITHER of you understand competitive skating, clearly. All competitive skating choreographers have understood the rule as such, this rule has been in place since the 2010-2011 season. That's why see you 5 different types of turns and 3 different types of steps all attempted in both directions in every Level 4 footwork sequence for the ENTIRE past 4 seasons.

No. That's just the way you are choosing to read it. You open a thread built on a distortion and then complain when people oppose your distortion which just so happens to conform to your opinion that sotnikova didn't deserve to win. You can't find legitimate ways to present Yuna as the real winner so you just distort and lie.

 

[capcomeback]

No. That's just the way you are choosing to read it. You open a thread built on a distortion and then complain when people oppose your distortion which just so happens to conform to your opinion that sotnikova didn't deserve to win. You can't find legitimate ways to present Yuna as the real winner so you just distort and lie.

How do we know your way of interpreting the rule is right? BTW, what is your way? Oh, yeah, the way you get your result.

 

[kslr0816]

You're the one who compares the programs, saying one "seems" more incorrectly scored than the others. Right?

please. you admit yourself the scores were biased for adelina. lol. anyway, your previous point is incorrect, as i have stated in the previous post.

also, purposely or not, you are detracting from the main topic of discussion. you don't need to analyze another skater's step sequence to analyze adelina's, so why keep talking about it? make a thread about yuna's step sequence and how it was deserved, and people will debate that one there or not.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

How do we know your way of interpreting the rule is right? BTW, what is your way? Oh, yeah, the way you get your result.

Isn't that exactly what BoP is doing?

 

[Blades of Passion]

Apparently Adelina's choreographer didn't get the memo.

Maybe the choreographer had an oversight or perhaps Adelina herself has not been able to execute the step sequence in accordance with the rules?

Her LP step sequence is significantly shorter than her SP step sequence. That means there's inherently less time to pad out the sequence and attempt more than the minimum of all of the different steps and turns in each direction; any edge mistakes that change the type of turn/step you're doing will be more prone to reducing the Level.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

make a thread about yuna's step sequence and how it was deserved, and people will debate that one there or not.

I don't care to because I'm not trying to discredit her deserved silver medal.

 

[kslr0816]

My coach (who is a US Regional-level TS and receives clarifications constantly via email and goes to tech school at least 1X per year) understands the rule to be as BoP does - 5 and 3 in EACH direction - when constructing step sequences for her skaters.

In addition, here is the link to USFS for the rules (only because it's easier to find than the correct communication on ISU's page):
1) Minimum variety (Level 1), simple variety (Level 2), variety (Level 3), complexity (Level 4) of turns and steps throughout (compulsory)
2) Rotations (turns, steps) in either direction (left and right) with full body rotation covering at least 1/3 of the pattern in total for each rotational direction
3) Use of upper body movements for at least 1/3 of the pattern
4) Two different combinations of 3 difficult turns (rockers, counters, brackets, twizzles, loops) quickly executed with a clear rhythm within the sequence

With clarification below:
Types of turns (executed on one foot) : three turns, twizzles, brackets, loops, counters, rockers.
Types of steps (executed on one foot whenever possible) : toe steps, chasses, mohawks, choctaws, curves with change of edge, cross-rolls, running steps.
Minimum variety must include at least 5 turns & 2 steps, none of the types can be counted more than twice.
Simple variety must include at least 7 turns & 4 steps, none of the types can be counted more than twice.
Variety must include at least 9 turns and 4 steps, none of the types can be counted more than twice.
Complexity must include at least 5 different types of turns and 3 different types of steps all
executed at least once in both directions.
Use of upper body movements means the visible use for a combined total of at least 1/3 of the pattern of the step sequence any movements of the arms, head and torso that have an effect on the balance of the main body core.
Two combinations of difficult turns are considered to be the same if they consist of the same turns done in the same order, on the same edge and on the same foot.

Source:
http://www.usfsa.org/content/2013-14 Singles Levels of Difficulty.pdf

You don't understand English apparently. A comma in any of those places does not change the meaning of the sentence.



I don't hate Sotnikova, you're the one who is making illegitimate lies. Why are you so defensive? Clearly you're trying to push some kind of agenda or want to hide something.

NEITHER of you understand competitive skating, clearly. All competitive skating choreographers have understood the rule as such, this rule has been in place since the 2010-2011 season (maybe even earlier than that, I can't recall off the top of my head). That's why see you 5 different types of turns and 3 different types of steps all attempted in both directions in every Level 4 footwork sequence for the ENTIRE past 4 seasons.

quoting these in response to the question at hand, which is how should thie particular rule be interpreted?

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Her LP step sequence is significantly shorter than her SP step sequence. That means there's inherently less time to pad out the sequence and attempt more than the minimum of all of the different steps and turns in each direction; any edge mistakes that change the type of turn/step you're doing will be more prone to reducing the Level.

I can't imagine they would get the rules that wrong to choreograph 1 step instead of 3 in each direction.

 

[kslr0816]

I don't care to because I'm not trying to discredit her deserved silver medal.

looks like no one else is either. so, what was your point about this?

This is exactly why you should look at all the performances, because you think one "seems" to be marked the most incorrectly without even considering how the others are marked.

 

[zamboni step]

She never once did her fs cleanly or even close to cleanly before the Olympics! She rarely ever did her 3 jump combo or messed up in some other way on her two triple flip plan. I was thinking that would continue but it didn't! The Russia fed was right to in keeping faith in sotnikova and I was incorrect! Now that she gave the best performance in 2014 ladies olympics competiton she deserves to be defended from outrageous lies and distortions and extreme hate.

Clean skates pre-Sochi
Cup of Russia II Rostelecom Perm 2009- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_327e4ktyQ Two 3+3Ls, 7 triples. 3T-2T-2T
2010 JGP Austria- 3Lz-3L, 2A-3T and 4 other clean triples.
2011 Russian Nationals- 7 clean triples, same content as Austria
2013 TEB- 6 triples, two 3Fs, no pops, no step outs

Near clean skates pre-Sochi
2014 Nationals, one <<, that's it.
2014 Euros, step out of lutz, UR on 3L.

Boom.

 

[Glen Parry]

You don't understand English apparently. A comma in any of those places does not change the meaning of the sentence.



I don't hate Sotnikova, you're the one who is making illegitimate lies. Why are you so defensive? Clearly you're trying to push some kind of agenda or want to hide something.

NEITHER of you understand competitive skating, clearly. All competitive skating choreographers have understood the rule as such, this rule has been in place since the 2010-2011 season (maybe even earlier than that, I can't recall off the top of my head). That's why see you 5 different types of turns and 3 different types of steps all attempted in both directions in every Level 4 footwork sequence for the ENTIRE past 4 seasons.

Wrong. The insertion of punctuation can have a major effect on the meaning of a sentence (& I both speak & write English to a standard high enough to produce reports for UK Government departments).