State of the U.S. Men's Figure Skating for 2014-15 | Page 5 | Golden Skate

State of the U.S. Men's Figure Skating for 2014-15

:laugh:

You do realise this is only Max's SECOND Senior GP season (yep, same as Jason!) and only his third season as an international Senior altogether, right?


Now I'm just really frustrated for Josh. He really needed to be able to lay down an early season marker at that Skate Canada thingo. Instead, everyone is racking up ranking points and SBs and PBs and rep and he's stuck recovering from ankle sprains. Argh.

Really :o: You know, sometimes I just need to google people. Well, never mind for Max. Thanks for correcting me.
 
Really :o: You know, sometimes I just need to google people. Well, never mind for Max. Thanks for correcting me.

Max was actually US National Champion before he made his Grand Prix debut. It's an unusual situation, but kind of fun. He's only 22.
 
Max was actually US National Champion before he made his Grand Prix debut. It's an unusual situation, but kind of fun. He's only 22.

This is actually great to know. I like and respect Max's skating very much. I think he knows his strengths and does his best to maximize them. He's in a tough spot when he doesn't skate well however. With Jason's PCS scores Max has to skate well enough that even with lower PCS he'll win due to his tech mark.

He seems like a fighter and I really like that. I guess I should have placed Adam Rippon on that list instead of Max. I'd love to see Adam have the season of his life. He's so talented and I'd hate to think he peaked as a Junior.
 
I love Max. Love his speed and attack! Glad he got a pcs pb so early into the season!
 
Jason can't win with those insulting people. He can get a quad axel and they'll still hate him.

EDIT- Regarding Jeremy: I'm not sold on him, but his Saitama LP did give me a glimpse into what others find so special about him. He doesn't have the technical arsenal (or the reputation) to compete with the top guys, but I'd be really, really happy for him if he medals with two perfect programs. (I just hope it's not at the expense of Javi Zayaking, because that's a touchy subject for me :laugh:).

And yes, Paul Wylie was a wonderful moment! But... he still "only" managed to take silver, in a badly skated event, behind Viktor Petrenko who skated possibly the worst Olympic-winning LP of the past two decades. If Wylie hadn't been so inconsistent, would he perhaps have won gold? There are times when I think he deserved it, because his overall performance was stronger even if Viktor landed more triples. I have a feeling that if Jeremy skates cleanly, something similar would happen: he'd medal, it'll be a wonderful moment, but the colour won't be gold. (And that's alright, of course! I was simply responding to the possibilityWould of him outright winning Worlds).
would a an analogy for Jeremy Abbot be emanual Sandhu perhaps. Both had the artistry, jumps, spins if on in their prime. they just rarely put it all together.
 
would a an analogy for Jeremy Abbot be emanual Sandhu perhaps. Both had the artistry, jumps, spins if on in their prime. they just rarely put it all together.


Speaking of analogies, I think an analogy for Jason will turn out to be Shawn Sawyer. I would prefer it be Toller Cranston though.
 
State of the U.S. Men 2014-2015

[quote name=""Icey"]

Speaking of analogies, I think an analogy for Jason will turn out to be Shawn Sawyer. I would prefer it be Toller Cranston though.[/quote]



I like to think/hope/wish that Jason will turn out to be the Lambiel of the next decade. (yes, he's only 19 so we may get up to another ten years of skating from him, fingers crossed!) he's got all the artistry, spins, and stage presence. I'm also convinced that, just like Lambiel and chan, once he gets the quad it will end up being extremely stable, even if (like Lambiel and chan) his 3A remains semi-sketchy " =)
 
Speaking of analogies, I think an analogy for Jason will turn out to be Shawn Sawyer. I would prefer it be Toller Cranston though.

I hope not. I love Shawn's skating and they do share some of the same qualities. However, I think Jason is a better competitor than Shawn was. Of course, it's too early to say at this point.
 
Speaking of analogies, I think an analogy for Jason will turn out to be Shawn Sawyer. I would prefer it be Toller Cranston though.

I started watching figure skating with Toller, and I came back because of Jason. It would be wonderful if he could follow Toller's path. I certainly think he has that spark. But since I was "away", who is Shawn Sawyer? (someone who was not a successful competitor, sounds like.:scratch:)
 
I started watching figure skating with Toller, and I came back because of Jason. It would be wonderful if he could follow Toller's path. I certainly think he has that spark. But since I was "away", who is Shawn Sawyer? (someone who was not a successful competitor, sounds like.:scratch:)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shawn_Sawyer

He is a Canadian skater. He is uber flexible like Jason, I think arguably more so. He also had huge problems doing his 3A in his career. He would only make the World team once (technically) -- in 2006, when he finished third at Nationals. He finished 12th at Olympics then bombed at Worlds and finished 25th. He was highly inconsistent nationally.

However he was a great entertainer and had some beautiful amazing programs. When I said he technically went to Worlds only once, it's because he had the skate of his life in 2011 and won the silver medal. However, b/c of the tsunami in Japan, Worlds was delayed a month and he had already committed to do Stars on Ice, so he ended up retiring and doing shows. It was probably for the best cause he probably wouldn't be able to top that SOHL.

His Alice in Wonderland program (the one that he did at Canadians) is one of my all time faves. I can't find the Canadian version though. :(

Here it is at Skate America: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0FVV2dh_Tc

A few mistakes, but still magical. :)

Shawn certainly didn't win the big prizes, but I think he's still pretty special. That's why he still gets invited to do Stars on Ice and other shows around the world.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UH1--dPITX8


So yeah, if Jason ends up being just as magical and entertaining as Shawn, that's NOT a bad thing. I do think Jason will prove to be a better competitor, though yeah it's too early to say at this point. (Although he's already surpassed Shawn's record, having won a GP medal and placed in the top 10 in the Olympics in his first senior season).
 
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Shawn's Biellmann and spiral was God-gifted. He is sooo special. If Jason ends up like him, with better medal table, then that would be to die for.
 
Shawn's Biellmann and spiral was God-gifted. He is sooo special.

And his trade mark spin. :bow: No one else in the world does it, Man or Lady. Artistry and flexibility are the two words that come to my mind about Shawn Sawyer. He is truly special, outside of Gary Beacom the mad genius on Ice.
 
For sure Jason is the better competitor - like Mrs P pointed out even the statistics support this.

I'm still sooooo impressed by how well he did at the Olys! A short program where he looked as relaxed as if he was doing a SOI show piece, and even with the mistakes in the long he fought to stay up and even managed to smile, when some others were going all deer in headlights. Admittedly - and this will probably forever be discussed - the fact that he does not do the quad means that he is left with much more energy to concentrate on executing his jumps and is therefore more likely to land them. I think, I can't be sure. But he definitely seems to enjoy competing and learn from his mistakes, and he doesn't tend to "give up" on a program.
 
And his trade mark spin. :bow: No one else in the world does it, Man or Lady. Artistry and flexibility are the two words that come to my mind about Shawn Sawyer. He is truly special, outside of Gary Beacom the mad genius on Ice.

Indeed! He is one of those whom Scott calls "Truly Special", and in Shawn's case he is truly right :laugh:

Just watched that SA AiW that Mrs P posted and all I can is :love:

The Jason vs. Shawn comparison the way I see it (and I'm wiriting this as Jason's biggest fan):

Flexibility:

Shawn: Defies belief, unique
Jason: Hugely impressive

Artistry:

Shawn: Faithful to the theme, excellent interpretation. Attention to every detail, no movement is devoid of meaning. Most everything is to the music. Plays to the audience and brings them in. Adds little touches to the footwork and transitions that relate to the theme (crisp hand/torso/head movements, arm/head movements when going into a jump).
An example from this program: A little swashbuckling swordplay towards the judges mid-footwork!

Jason: All of the above, and he will (I say selfishly/hopefully, because they make my heart beat the fastest) add even more of those little touches. Or not, if he gets the quad and needs to reserve energy!
An example from T&I: Going into the 3F3T left hand on heart, head turned to look back with right hand extended backwards as though reaching out/in a silent farewell to Isolde.

Technique:

Spins:

Pretty equal. Shawn has the edge in flexibility, Jason a slight one in speed and centering

Jumps:

Both have really beautiful air positions, landing positions, arm positions on landing, and transitions. Both carry the free leg very low.
Shawn did tend to pop jumps and step out and occasionally kick a decent blur of snow with his free foot, while Jason's problem seems to be, occasionally, clear two-footing and URing, not popping/stepping out so much. And when he does pop he can think on his skates and triple an intended double (TEB).
On the other hand, Shawn had better flow out of jumps; Jason does have a good running edge, too, but not all the time for sure. Especially 2nd jumps in combo and loops seem to land and just...stay there?

MiF:

Both have spirals to DIE for - if only they had more time to perform them!
Shawn looks to have an edge in speed, and dare I say it skating skills :eek: But then he was much older than Jason in the videos I watched, so Jason has time to develop there. Or I may be wrong because I'm a laywoman: to me Jase just looks a bit more laboured on ice sometimes, while Shawn didn't.
I'd say their footwork is pretty equal; both have nice crisp, controlled turns and steps but Jason, again, seems to have less speed and can look slower.

Head:

Shawn: You never knew what to expect. He could do great or he could bomb, and previous competition results seemed to be no indication.

Jason: Unusually consistent; he rarely falls and his scores tend to get bigger every time he performs a program, which shows that he learns from his mistakes. Even in the most nerve-wracking competition that exists - the Olympic singles - he managed to finish upright and his score was not that far off his PB (I'm still very surprised that that happened, I was expecting low-mid 140s and thinking I may be too optimistic here; certainly didn't expect a score not 6 pts off his PB)
 
Thanks so much Mrs. P for the vid and TMC for the analysis. There is a a lot to catch up on. I can see that Shawn had the same stylistic flair, and I also selfishly hope that Jason "makes it work" in competition more than Shawn could.
 
It's very obvious Brown will win skate America.

It is? I have Machida winning. I have Brown in third, and even that's not a guarantee if Gachinski does as well as he did on his Russian cup event.
 
It is? I have Machida winning. I have Brown in third, and even that's not a guarantee if Gachinski does as well as he did on his Russian cup event.

Gachinski's pcs won't be anywhere near browns! Neither will be the spin and step goe and maybe levels. I can't think of one area where gachinski can outscore Brown. The spin and step levels and security of jumps performed will likely lead to brown winning over machida. Likey brown pcs will be higher too.
 
Gachinski's pcs won't be anywhere near browns! Neither will be the spin and step goe and maybe levels. I can't think of one area where gachinski can outscore Brown. The spin and step levels and security of jumps performed will likely lead to brown winning over machida. Likey brown pcs will be higher too.

:laugh: :laugh:
 
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