The Bielmann spin: Sasha vs. Irina | Page 4 | Golden Skate

The Bielmann spin: Sasha vs. Irina

Mathman

Mathman

Joined
Jun 21, 2003
An extra topic has come up on this thread, but I want to chime in on Lucy's comment about matching spotlight moves to musical climaxes. I agree with Excidra that this is something that Sasha does not pay much attention to.

This is quite strange to me, because I would think that this would be Choreography 101. Yet Sasha's choreographers -- and she has had access to some of the best -- do not seem to try to take advantage of the music.

About Michelle holding the second edge of her change of edge spiral, in exhibitions and on tour with COI she still gives us the whole nine yards. I have read that she deliberately shortened the time spent on this move in competition, because once you hold it for the required number of seconds, you don't get any more points after that, so you have to rush on to the next element.

MM
 
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gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Here are a bunch of links with Biellmann spins or other spins or spirals in similar positions:

http://www.wcjunior.com/live-2004/wk-kunstrijden/pictures/ladies_short.asp

http://photos.skatetoday.com/thumbnails.php?album=6

http://www.pixieworld.net/photsk8.php?sk8=fleumaxw&evnt=euro05

http://www.pixieworld.net/photsk8.php?sk8=emilhugh&evnt=wjr05

http://www.pixieworld.net/photsk8.php?sk8=irinslut&evnt=mwsc04

http://www.pixieworld.net/photsk8.php?sk8=vanegusm&evnt=euro01

http://home.snafu.de/eberl/archiv/photodir/skaters/ladies/timoshenko_daria_rus.shtml

http://www.toeloopy.com/images/events2001-2002/2001SOI/LR01soi0610.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Field/7203/ruh.html

You can also search through the following link for some examples from lower levels; some of these girls have Biellmanns in their photo collections here and some don't, I'm not going to single them out.

http://swpskating.com/ladies.html

For all these examples, keep in mind that a still photo doesn't necessarily show the position at full extension and may not show the best angle. And even those that do show the best point of the position may look better in motion than in a still frame.

Anyway, this will give an example of the range of positions out there. Very few to me look as though the skater would be better off not even bothering, but also very few look as though they would pass the test of being exquisite to look at from every angle throughout the move. Nor, of course, would most other skating moves.
 
CDMM1991

CDMM1991

Medalist
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
I don't like Emily's quite as much, though it would be good if she straightened her skating leg.
 
Mathman

Mathman

Joined
Jun 21, 2003
About this whole topic, I have to confess that I never really warmed up to moves where you have to use your hands to get your leg into position. Nancy Kerrigan's spiral, where she held onto her leg with one hand (and even so did not get exceptional amplitude) is an example. The I-spin is another.

I know it takes a lot of strength and agility to wrestle your leg up there, while balancing on a skate blade. But to me, it's not very pretty and takes away from the flow of the program.

Exception: Rudi Galindo or Michelle Kwan doing a Martini spin. That's cute.

JMO.

Good: http://www.skateygirl.com/nat2003/SrLadies/kwan/images/r72n21_jpg.jpg

Bad: http://www.ualberta.ca/~droles/skate/Mich.jpg

Good: http://www.rudy-galindo.com/amanda.jpg

Bad (well, not all that bad): http://www.gg.caltech.edu/~jeff/images/nancy1.jpeg


Super:

Wave your hands in the air!
Wave 'em like you just don't care!
Wave your hands in the air!
Wave 'em like you just don't care!

:clap: :clap: :clap:

MM
 
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BravesSkateFan

BravesSkateFan

Medalist
Joined
Aug 7, 2003
I don't know about a biellman, but she has a very nice half biellman.
If her beillmann would be anything like her half-biellman then I think it would defintley be better than Irina's.
 
Tonichelle

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
Mathman said:
Nancy Kerrigan's spiral, where she held onto her leg with one hand (and even so did not get exceptional amplitude) is an example.
Click to expand...


This spiral gets so much negative stuff said about it, and it's one of my favorites. I find it elegant... more so even than the Charlotte

Angela Nikodinov, Tara Lipinski, and Jenny Kirk all have beautiful ones :)
 
Joesitz (RIP)

Joesitz (RIP)

Joined
Jul 11, 2003
That picture of Kwan in the attitude position is priceless. That's the sort of thing she should put in her spiral sequence especially if she could change edge with it.

Maybe it's true, she can do more things than we have seen.

Joe
 
7

76olympics

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 4, 2004
Previous poster: Denis Biellmann(although she was not the first to do the Biellmann) does a breath taking biellmann, its Irina who took the move, made it her own, and put it on the map.



I gotta disagree with this. I am afraid that the name of the spin tells you the story. Denise Biellman put this "spin on the map" not Irina. I haven't seen any other skater do it as smoothly or as beautifully. I know the difficulty of the position because it looks awkward when other skaters do it. But-it looks paradoxically easy when Denise does it--I have never seen that extension with anyone else. This doesn't mean I dislike Irina's skating. She is not my favorite--but I think her jumping is powerful and I love to watch it. Her Biellman, however, is not up to the standard of Denise's. This isn't mean or controversial-but a fact.
 
F

flowjo35

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 25, 2004
MKbeauty

That's an awesome picture of MK. Hopefully we will see moves like this in her new programs. Look at the expression on her face. :love:

Joe, I think there are things MK can do that we have not seen or have not seen in a while. Hopefully we will see them in her new programs this season. Has the season started yet :laugh:
 
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Fossi

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 23, 2003
I disagree that Irina put the move on the map. Granted, Irina has been doing this same move for several years, but there's a difference between re-using a move to death, and putting it on the map.
I think Sasha hasn't done this move because she can't. Plain and simple. Sasha is the type that if she can do it, she is going to. She has that "in your face" personality, like she did the the Charlotte after Michelle Kwan brought it back. If Sasha could do the beilmann, she'd be doing it.
 
L

Lucy25

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 31, 2003
MKbeauty said:
BravesSkateFan:
I came across this great picture of MK's half biellman - thought I'd share.

http://www.cruelladekwan.com/images/pages/kwan (11)_jpg.htm
Click to expand...
Yes, this move is beautiful. It was part of a spiral sequence. Is it considered any kind of a Biellman if it is not a spin?

flowjo35 - According to practice reports, she has tons of new moves, including spins. Hopefully they will all be in the programs.
 
Mathman

Mathman

Joined
Jun 21, 2003
That's a great position! :cool:

(But I have to give a rusty hanger costume award :disagree: to the man's "Jacques Cousteau meets the Tin Man" look.)
 
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