The Bielmann spin: Sasha vs. Irina

[Mathman]

Oh, I don't know, Excidra. Looking at that picture, she needs a good eight or nine inches -- more than a hand's length -- of extra stretch to get her other hand on the blade. I might be wrong, but from that picture it looks like that's the best she can do.

Here's Lucinda Ruh, for comparison.

http://www.starsonice.de/images/ruh.jpg

MM

PS. Here's Plushenko in 2003 -- not so spy as he was as a teenager.

http://www.skatesweden.se/Em2003_A_Plushenko_min.jpg

OT: Evgeni: http://sportsmed.starwave.com/media/oly/2002/0214/photo/gallery14.jpg

Irina http://www.skatesweden.se/Em2003_Gala_Slutskaya_166med.jpg

 

[Grgranny]

Looks like Lucinda's leg is longer, suppose that makes a difference? My guess it would make it harder. Of course, if you leg's longer I suppose your arms are longer too?

 

[Hikaru]

Looks like Lucinda's leg is longer, suppose that makes a difference? My guess it would make it harder. Of course, if you leg's longer I suppose your arms are longer too?

Good point! longer arms will give the skater a better reach for the foot without having to bend the leg much. I think Denise has good arm lenght, so that also helpd her to keep a nice leg position, not bended at all (just a bit).

 

[Shanti]

http://eastonice.free.fr/Olia/skating/Spartak/0302IS.jpg I think Irina just opts to hold the skate with only one hand. click on the link above and look how close her hand is to the blade, while the other hand holds the blade.

I like this Irina's Biellmann. It's graceful and elegant.

 

[Grgranny]

I've been thinking more about the length of the arms and legs. A person probably would think if they have long legs they would have long arms. Not necessarily. My hubby was 6 ft 2 and had short legs, 30 inch pantleg and 35 inch sleeve length. In other words, he was really long from the heinee up. That isn't a word so I made up my own spelling. My arms and legs are both a little on the long side. So, it should make a difference on the reachability (another made up word, I think) . Especially if the rest of your body is either a little long or a little short. Guess I'm thinking strangely today!!

 

[Mathman]

I think it's "hiney" (from "hind end," LOL). According to the on-line slang dictionary, "Heinee" is a derogatory term for a German (after the German name Heinz).

But I think you are right about body types. My lady Michelle has a long torso and short legs, so this must have something to do with what moves she is best at.

I was reading in Nancy Kerrigan's book today, and she made the point that she could never do a good spread eagle because she didn't have "open hips." But she practiced and practiced and eventually learned to compensate by rotationg her knees and ankles more.

Mathman

 

[BravesSkateFan]

JOE.

Sorry about my last post to you (re: MK and new moves, touches, etc)
I just went back and read it and realized it sounded a bit snarky. Honestly I didn't mean for it to come off that way. I was too short on sleep when I wrote it. Sorry about that.

 

[BravesSkateFan]

I love Lucinda's biellman and I think its better than Denise's

I agree on the arm/leg lenght thing
If you look at the pic of sashas biellman postioin (from 17 magazine) it looks like her arms are fully extended, but her leg isn't very straight. If her arms are shorter than her legs then the leg won't be able to extend fully and still have the hand able to reach it.
So I believe that (along with back flexibiltiy) is a main factor in how good the spin looks.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

JOE.

Sorry about my last post to you (re: MK and new moves, touches, etc)
I just went back and read it and realized it sounded a bit snarky. Honestly I didn't mean for it to come off that way. I was too short on sleep when I wrote it. Sorry about that.

Nah! There was nothing snarky about your post. Anyway, I'm kind of thick skinned.

Joe

 

[Shanti]

http://eastonice.free.fr/Olia/skating/Spartak/0302IS.jpg I think Irina just opts to hold the skate with only one hand. click on the link above and look how close her hand is to the blade, while the other hand holds the blade.

Whe I was rewatching skating vids I ran across Irina Slutskaya's "Les Feuilles Mortes" program (you can download it here ). Apparantly she can hold the blade with both hands.

 

[tarotx]

Whe I was rewatching skating vids I ran across Irina Slutskaya's "Les Feuilles Mortes" program (you can download it here ). Apparantly she can hold the blade with both hands.

What it proves is that Irina used to be able to hold the blade with both hands! I thought maybe she was doing it while holding her wrist for style reasons. Should have known better!

It was funny hearing Peter(?) talk about how her 1st jump wasn't good because it came at a near stand still-LOL. Nearly all Irina's jumps last year came to a near stand still on landing

 

[Mathman]

Nearly all Irina's jumps last year came to a near stand still on landing.

That seems to be the price that Irina is willing to pay for all that height and spring that she gets.

Michelle's jumps, in contrast, are smaller, but with nice flow-out. I don't know which style is regarded more highly by international judges, but under the new judging system Irina sure is racking up the points.

Mathman

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I think the short flow out of her jumps is also because she lands heavy on the center of the blade (flat). I think is she could try to land a little more to the toe area and land on an edge, it would give her that flow we all go ahhhhh for.

I'm going to look closer this season.

Joe

 

[Excidra2001]

What it proves is that Irina used to be able to hold the blade with both hands! I thought maybe she was doing it while holding her wrist for style reasons. Should have known better!

I was telling MM, I don't think its a problem for Irina to hold blade on both hands. With the new rules on biellmans, I think its a requirement from the skater to hold the blade with both hands.

It was funny hearing Peter(?) talk about how her 1st jump wasn't good because it came at a near stand still-LOL. Nearly all Irina's jumps last year came to a near stand still on landing

I agree about coming to a stand still on her lutz. She mainly comes to a stand still on her 3lutz, which makes me a go when she adds a 3loop at the end of that jump because she basically has no run out from the first jump and when she hits the ice she goes up for the 3loop, really difficult.
All her other jumps seem to be okay to me, specially her 3flip when she does it well, its a thing of beauty.

 

[orchid]

another Lucinda pic

http://www.icesk8r.com/ruh/pics/0203/france.html

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I just saw Rohene Ward do a perfect 1 hand bielman spiral into a triple lutz.

Joe

 

[emma]

I just saw Rohene Ward do a perfect 1 hand bielman spiral into a triple lutz.

Joe

OMG....where and who has video????!!!!!?????

 

[JonnyCoop]

I personally feel Irina OVERDOES the Biellmann; what made the original Bielmann (by Denise B. herself) so terrific was that she used it as the highlight toward the end of her program; she knew everyone was waiting for it so when she finally did it the reception was exciting. IMO Irina does it to DEATH in some of her programs.

I don't recall Sasha ever actually doing a true Biellmann; that thing she does with holding the leg straight up and spinning may be a way to show off flexibility, but I've always found it an ungainly position and not especially flattering. Then again, Sasha does have a tendency to pretzel herself into so many positions that it's possible I've never noticed her doing an actual Biellmann because it just seems so natural on her.

It's interesting how others too have noticed how Irina tends to lose speed coming out of some of her jumps; I remember her being a bit put out at the 2001 Worlds because she didn't feel she received enough credit for doing a 3-jump combination. I personally was surprised to find out that this was in fact an INTENDED combination; she was so slow coming out of the 2nd jump that the 3rd jump looked like something she had just tacked on at the spur of the moment. It was pretty much the same way it had been executed all season long and it just didn't flow well like a properly done combination should.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

OMG....where and who has video????!!!!!?????

I watched MidAtlanics over the weekend. Rohene was a competitor. If you've never seen Rohene, you haven't seen figure skating.

Joe

 

[emma]

I watched MidAtlanics over the weekend. Rohene was a competitor. If you've never seen Rohene, you haven't seen figure skating.

Joe

I'm a HUGE Rohene Ward fan....but have had terribly bad luck getting video of him....last time I downloaded stuff I couldn't view it...anyway, how about some more details, like what's his music??