Slutskaya, Witt and Henie

Mathman · Jan 24, 2006

Mafke said:
Okay, no one else has asked the big question that's been burning in my mind.

HOW IS IT POSSIBLE THAT HENIE WON _ONLY_ 7 (SEVEN) EUROPEAN TITLES?????

Did she not compete, was she beaten a couple of times? Was Europeans not a big deal back then? I though she had ten or so World titles? Why so few Europeans?

Good question. I looked it up, LOL.

Sonja Henie won ten World Championships from 1927 to 1936, when she retired from amateur competition.

The first Europeans for women and pairs was held in 1930. Henie did not participate (I don't know why.) She entered and won the next 6, 1931-1936.

MM

antmanb · Jan 25, 2006

Joesitz said:
they've all won their respective Nationals. Why not think this year I will win Euros.

Steven Cousins (10 or 11 time british champ!) genuinely tried though i think medalling was his main goal...coming closest in 1997 with his first (and i think only) 3A/3T combination in the SP and sitting in 3rd place...then a usual LP that left him off the podium.

Ant

Mafke · Jan 25, 2006

Mathman said:
The first Europeans for women and pairs was held in 1930. Henie did not participate (I don't know why.) She entered and won the next 6, 1931-1936.

Okay, that makes sense, I'm just really surprised there weren't championships earlier.

Mathman · Jan 25, 2006

I get the impression that it took a long time to really establish figure skating as a sport for ladies as well as for men. The first European Championship for men (both figure skating and speed skating) was held in 1891.

Mafke · Jan 25, 2006

Oh, and thanks very much for the info. I thought I'd included that before hitting the submit reply button.

And I'm really surprised now and wonder if women were eligible to compete with men in earlier years (I really fail to see how sex makes a difference in figures, though maybe in the kinds of free figures they did then it would).

antmanb · Jan 25, 2006

Mathman said:
I get the impression that it took a long time to really establish figure skating as a sport for ladies as well as for men. The first European Championship for men (both figure skating and speed skating) was held in 1891.

Wasn't there an early Europeans that Dick Button won and promptly after that only europeans were allowed to compete?

Ant

Mathman · Jan 25, 2006

Mafke said:
And I'm really surprised now and wonder if women were eligible to compete with men in earlier years (I really fail to see how sex makes a difference in figures, though maybe in the kinds of free figures they did then it would).

In the 1902 World Championships held in London, Madge Sayers entered and won the silver medal behind Ulrich Salchow. I get the impression that the ISU officials scoured the rule book trying to find a rule that would keep her out. But since no one ever imagined that such a scandlous thing would ever come about, there was no rule against it.

Sort of like the movie Babe in which a pig entered the sheep-herding competition usually contested by dogs.

Anyway, by 1905 they cleared up that loop-hole (thus restoring respectability to the sport), and in 1906 they held the first "ISU championship" for women. This was held annually, but I think it was regarded more as a side-show -- something to indulge the ladies, aren't they precious -- while the men were going about the serious business of athletic competition. The event was not named the "World Championship" until 1924.

Mathman · Jan 25, 2006

antmanb said:
Wasn't there an early Europeans that Dick Button won and promptly after that only europeans were allowed to compete?

Barbara Ann Scott (Canada) won Europeans in 1947. In 1948 she successfully defended her European title (and also won the Canadian National Championship, World Championship and the Olympic gold medal).

In 1948 Dick Button was the men's European champion (in addition to U.S., World and Olympic champion).

After that, yes, they restricted the European championship to skaters representing countries of Europe.

I don't think this was a sinister conspiracy to keep North Americans out, however. I think the European championship had historically been for Europeans only (or in any case, no one outside of Europe chose to compete). But after World War II the figure skating programs of many European nations were in such a shambles that they had to invite international stars like Scott and Button just to have a competition at all.

MM

Doggygirl · Jan 25, 2006

Thanks for this interesting history lesson!

Note for Red Dog - this is only my experience in competition, but victory is sweet to me regardless of whether the win is considered "close" or a "shoo in."

DG

R.D. · Jan 25, 2006

Doggygirl said:
Note for Red Dog - this is only my experience in competition, but victory is sweet to me regardless of whether the win is considered "close" or a "shoo in."

DG

Of course it's sweet.

But have you ever been in a situation where doubt settled in or you weren't favored to win, but you managed to pull it off? And if so, how did that make you feel?

Doggygirl · Jan 26, 2006

Red Dog said:
Of course it's sweet.

But have you ever been in a situation where doubt settled in or you weren't favored to win, but you managed to pull it off? And if so, how did that make you feel?

I learned very early in life to NEVER feel like a win is in the bag. That's when stupid mistakes always happened - at least for me through several sports now. So no matter what anyone else ever things, I always have doubt which keeps me on edge, but also keeps things sharp.

As a fan of any sport (such as FS) where I just watch, I love a close competition WAY more than a "shoo in" type competition. The nail biters are more memorable as a fan. But when I'm competing, it's just different, at least to me. There is a "high" that goes with it, and as an example I got the same "high" when Ferguson won first place at a tiny show as I did when Kimba won a North American Championship. I can only speak for myself though.

DG

R.D. · Jan 26, 2006

Interesting take...I would love to ask other athletes the same question. I know as a fan a close game is more thrilling, but what about the players themselves?

Mathman · Jan 26, 2006

I think as a player the most satisying thing is to totally crush your opponent, grind him into mincemeat, make him hollar uncle, who's your daddy?

MM

Slutskaya, Witt and Henie

Mathman

antmanb

Mafke

Mathman

Mafke

antmanb

Mathman

Mathman

Doggygirl

R.D.

Doggygirl

R.D.

Mathman

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