The brilliance of Michelle Kwan

Joesitz (RIP) · Mar 13, 2006

Red Dog is right on in his dislike of Michelle's fans gush, gush, gush. It does get tiresome even for this Kwaniac. Kwan has been an exceptional skater for over 10 years winning contests after contests. That's fact. Even with Silver and Bronze Olympic medals, her fans have been steadfast, often taking away from other skaters. Not many skaters have 2 olympic medals. Have they?

If a favorite skater does not win an Olympic gold medal, it doesn't mean one has to switch allegiance to the winner. What purpose would that serve?

Not to open a can of worms, but there is no Olympic Gold Medalist in the past 20 years for me to consider that special. This is not an opinion. It is what I feel.

The only two figure skaters that I have felt as the greatest in the past years have been Kurt and Michelle. Others have displayed a great deal of virtuosity in certain championships, particularly in the technical, but none have gotten to me as much as Kurt and Michelle for the Whole Package.

There have been some outstanding Russian Pairs which I whole heartedly agree as the best of the best, and for me, there was only one Dance Team that got to me and they happened to be British.

Just expressing my heartfelt ideals of figure skating personalities.

Joe

Kwanford Wife · Mar 13, 2006

Awww come on people!! It was a joke... I'm not picking on Red Dog or anyone else... Like I said previously, it is my not so humble opinion that Michelle is the best ever... but it is also a fact that she's the most dominate figure in this sport with the record to back that up as fact... Now, it that makes me a rabid fan to say that, then so be it. There are worse things I could be, I suppose... (like a wearer of bad shoes, for example)

However, here's a general question... how is it "rabid fans gushing" when Kwan supporters make a comment that is misconstrued as a defensive uprising vs. fans of other skaters making the same comment? If you substitue any skater's name for Kwan, that's ok but for Kwan fans? The "Oh my goodness... hose 'em down! They're outta control!!" drama starts? Ho hum... I guess everyone hates the homecoming queen at some point in their lives...

I am a fan of Michelle Kwan and I'm not ashamed to admit it! So there.

mzheng · Mar 13, 2006

:chorus: :chorus: :chorus:

jenaj · Mar 13, 2006

Joesitz said:
This topic scares me in the middle of a World Championship and of what can come of it. It's definitely a topic for the summer months

To make my comment short. Michelle has body language and that is where she is way above her competitors but she doesn't do 3x3s and that's what the hords of Romans scream for at the Coliseum.

Body language? that doesn't do it justice. I'd call it charisma, musicality, connection with the audience, magic. No one else has it and no number of triple-triples (which few can do consistently) compares.

jenaj · Mar 13, 2006

Red Dog said:
no need to get defensive about her. It's ok, she'll survive. She doesn't need the Kwanfan horde to defend her.

Now, she's won lots of titles. That's fact. What is OPINION though is that "she's the best", "she's this", "she's that".

Facts cannot be argued. The amount of world titles, national titles, etc. she has won cannot be disputed (although whether she deserved them or not could, but that's not the point). But whether she is as great as you guys say she is CAN be. What about those people who go to sleep whenever she skates? Can't say they'll chime in with "she's the best", right?

Well, the "best" is always a mixed question of fact and opinion. Some people don't think Michael Jordan is the best basketball player ever, but his record could support that. Michelle, on her record, is almost certainly the best female skater of the modern era. One could also argue that she is the best of all time based on the level of difficulty in the current programs compared to skaters of previous eras. The fact that there are always a few dissenters out there doesn't mean that an objective case can't be made that she is the best, based solely on her record.

Mathman · Mar 13, 2006

SusanBeth said:
I have to speak up here. Michelle is a legend. Legends are created by the observer as well as the event. They don't necessarily contain a word of truth.

People seem to have missed the point of this thread. By "brilliance" the first poster is speaking of the performer's ability to move the audience.

"It makes me cry every time I see someone give it their all and let the audience feel that incredible connection to the music!"

The audience cannot be in doubt about their feelings. It is not merely Christinaskater's "opinion" that she is moved by Michelle's performances -- she really is. So are many others. This is the truth.

MM

Mathman · Mar 13, 2006

Kittyjake, I liked your post. There was nothing wrong with it and I agree with what you said. If you want to repost it, that would be all right and no one would blame you!

Mathman

R.D. · Mar 13, 2006

There shouldn't be any shame in being a fan of any skater. In fact, it's sad it's even an issue.

Well, the "best" is always a mixed question of fact and opinion. Some people don't think Michael Jordan is the best basketball player ever, but his record could support that. Michelle, on her record, is almost certainly the best female skater of the modern era. One could also argue that she is the best of all time based on the level of difficulty in the current programs compared to skaters of previous eras. The fact that there are always a few dissenters out there doesn't mean that an objective case can't be made that she is the best, based solely on her record.

That's possible, too. But I think this is missing the general point- that you can use FACTS to support your OPINION, but THAT in itself does not make it a FACT. See the difference?

Kwanford Wife · Mar 13, 2006

Red Dog said:
There shouldn't be any shame in being a fan of any skater. In fact, it's sad it's even an issue.

That's possible, too. But I think this is missing the general point- that you can use FACTS to support your OPINION, but THAT in itself does not make it a FACT. See the difference?

That is what I call an ironic comment...

Kwan's success rate is a fact, but that's not what supports my not so humble opinion that she's the best ever... what supports that is the funky little shiver that goes down my cynical spine when she takes that opening position... in the immortal words of some WWE great "ya don't have to like it, but ya gotta love it!"

R.D. · Mar 13, 2006

Kwanford Wife said:
That is what I call an ironic comment...

Explain to me how it's ironic.

Kwanford Wife · Mar 13, 2006

Red Dog said:
Explain to me how it's ironic.

Its ironic because you claim to be a non-fan, but your posts tend to make it very clear who you do & do not enjoy. I'm waiting for the day when you cannot hold it in and shout for all of skatedom to hear who's your closet favorite, because I know ya have one! (and on that special day in the future, I shall be your loudest cheerleader! I'm just wondering what the skater- that- shall- not- be- named will need to do for you to go public )

R.D. · Mar 13, 2006

You know, I'm very out there. If I had a favorite, I would have told you.

OK. well, since I'm at 4000 posts, let me put it out in the open:

I do not enjoy Irina. That should be public knowledge by now.

Hearing about MK (esp. the gushing) sometimes makes me want to hurl. But this was back in the day. She's no longer competing now, so...

I'm a true nonfan but I'll admit to periodically having "sways"- i.e. sometimes I'll pay more attention to one skater than another. But I still am not a fan of any skater in particular.

This is how I really feel. No BSing here at all.

jenaj · Mar 13, 2006

Red Dog said:
no need to get defensive about her. It's ok, she'll survive. She doesn't need the Kwanfan horde to defend her.

Now, she's won lots of titles. That's fact. What is OPINION though is that "she's the best", "she's this", "she's that".

Facts cannot be argued. The amount of world titles, national titles, etc. she has won cannot be disputed (although whether she deserved them or not could, but that's not the point). But whether she is as great as you guys say she is CAN be. What about those people who go to sleep whenever she skates? Can't say they'll chime in with "she's the best", right?

You can support an opinion that she is the best or one of the best or the best of her era with facts: her record. How do you back up your opinion that she is not the best or close to the best other than by mere personal preference? Do you dispute that she was the best in the world five times or best in the US nine times? Or were those just opinions, too?

tarotx · Mar 13, 2006

What makes Michelle brilliant is her constancy, longevity and something esle.

IMO that something else is that Michelle finds something in most skating performance that make her happy, or make her feel special or which brings her back to the moment she was a girl falling in love with the sport for the first time. And then she shares the moment with the audience and we feel like we are in the moment. It's our joy, it's us feeling special and us falling in love with skating. We feel like we went on Michelle's journey (like we won gold or barely missed gold or had one lapse and had to settle for bronze) not just watched it happened.

R.D. · Mar 13, 2006

jenaj said:
You can support an opinion that she is the best or one of the best or the best of her era with facts: her record. How do you back up your opinion that she is not the best or close to the best based on anything other than mere opinion?

It's FEELING. Obviously many of you people out there FEEL something when she skates, and that, besides however many titles she's won, is what makes her "so great" to you all. Now, Mk was once a great skater who, in most cases, could deliver when it counted most. That doesn't mean I have to like her- in other words, enjoy her SKATING. I just don't FEEL whatever you guys feel when she skates. And THAT's why I disagree so strongly with you guys. Sure, she's good...sure, she's won ten million titles...but she's JUST NOT MY CUP OF TEA. Simple...

ETA: well, let me put it this way. I think she's a great SKATER and all. She certainly was a good competitor. But her style is just not something I'm interested in. Couple that with the vast group of people who seem to be so moved by her skating and you find yourself climbing a wall...with no rope!

Mathman · Mar 13, 2006

You have a way with words, Tarotx. :bow:

Mathman · Mar 13, 2006

Red Dog said:
...Couple that with the vast group of people who seem to be so moved by her skating and you find yourself climbing a wall...with no rope!

I do not understand why you have such a violent reaction to the fact that lots of people enjoy Michelle's skating and are moved by it.

To me, you should be happy for us, even if this is a feeling that you don't share.

MM :yes:

R.D. · Mar 13, 2006

Mathman said:
I do not understand why you have such a violent reaction to the fact that lots of people enjoy Michelle's skating and are moved by it.

It's not so much that as it is that certain people expect EVERYONE ELSE to share the same opinion, or if you don't, you're a "hater" or whatever. It just gets tiresome. It's OK to like her but it shouldn't be too shocking when a few others don't feel the same way. That's all...

demarinis5 · Mar 13, 2006

I like Michelle and I like you too Red Dog.

SusanBeth · Mar 13, 2006

Mathman said:
People seem to have missed the point of this thread. By "brilliance" the first poster is speaking of the performer's ability to move the audience.

"It makes me cry every time I see someone give it their all and let the audience feel that incredible connection to the music!"

The audience cannot be in doubt about their feelings. It is not merely Christinaskater's "opinion" that she is moved by Michelle's performances -- she really is. So are many others. This is the truth.

MM

First, let me thank you for fixing my account. It's nice to be me again!

I don't think I've missed the point. I am just saying that it's subjective and not fact. I do understand that some people are moved. I am just saying some aren't and both points of view are valid. It's not about facts, it's personal. Therefore, it's subjective. Yet, the statements are made as though they are absolute and undenieable. It's hard to resist the temptation to present another perspective. Although it's probably not appropriate to introduce another or any perspective into a gush thread. So, I will resist discussing alternate views of Kwan's skating here.

The brilliance of Michelle Kwan

Joesitz (RIP)

Kwanford Wife

mzheng

jenaj

jenaj

Mathman

Mathman

R.D.

Kwanford Wife

R.D.

Kwanford Wife

R.D.

jenaj

tarotx

R.D.

Mathman

Mathman

R.D.

demarinis5

Gold for the Winter Prince!

SusanBeth

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