The brilliance of Michelle Kwan

[76olympics]

I know, RD, you were strongly tempted to bring logic to the fore. But- this thread had a sign at the entrance that says "Michelle land."

Believe me, if I see a thread titled "Toller the Terrific" or "Darling Dorothy", I am there in a flash. I would be disheartened if some missionaries then descended to remind me that Toller was his own worst enemy at times, he is "over the top", and can be a real pain in the nether regions. I know all that! But-I still think he is one of the most interesting and original skaters ever! I watch his programs ALL the time. Similarly, I know Dorothy can only do doubles, she scarcely skates in shows anymore, yadda yadda. I still love her; she is the bomb to me.

In the spirit of the thread, I really do love that Lyra program! It lifts you up! I think you see the essence of Michelle there.

 

[nymkfan51]

You hit the nail on the thread, 76olympics. :agree:

My goodness ... if folks want to gush over Michelle, or any other skater for that matter, what's the harm? Ignore the thread if you think it's ridiculous.
It's a no-brainer.

 

[R.D.]

I know, RD, you were strongly tempted to bring logic to the fore. But- this thread had a sign at the entrance that says "Michelle land."

Believe me, if I see a thread titled "Toller the Terrific" or "Darling Dorothy", I am there in a flash. I would be disheartened if some missionaries then descended to remind me that Toller was his own worst enemy at times, he is "over the top", and can be a real pain in the nether regions. I know all that! But-I still think he is one of the most interesting and original skaters ever! I watch his programs ALL the time. Similarly, I know Dorothy can only do doubles, she scarcely skates in shows anymore, yadda yadda. I still love her; she is the bomb to me.

In the spirit of the thread, I really do love that Lyra program! It lifts you up! I think you see the essence of Michelle there.

Point well taken. Well Kwanfans, sorry for crashing the party. Carry on. :yes:

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Nothing wrong with getting testy because of a poster's put down of your favorite skater. And you can do that right here in Golden Skate.

Joe

 

[graceness]

it wasn't just Sasha, mind you, it was ALL THE OLYMPIC FIGURE SKATERS I had pictures of. I even posted some of your beloved Michelle. Funny how people have selective memory...they only remember the photos of SASHA that I post and forget all the others. How convenient...a way to frame me as a fan of hers. While others are cutting me down for being her biggest detractor. Pick one, please, and stick with it.

Hey Red Dog, I truly didn't see any photos that you posted of Michelle or anyone else. Maybe those were from awhile ago and I only have short-term memory!

I was struck by the numerous Sasha photos from Leno: Here she is with a half smile, a full smile, a partial smile, etc. You know, one or two would have let us know how lovely she looked - I think it was when there were at least 12 of 'em with her doin' nothing more than sitting on the Leno set, that I was rather persuaded that you're at least infatuated with the woman!

Mebbe I'm wrong?!!

Graceness

 

[R.D.]

I did post photos of MK, but they were removed. I'll see if I can repost during the off-season (i.e. summer).

Actually, I can explain the numerous pictures: it was actually a copy and paste of another post I made on a PICTURE forum...and they LIKE lots of pictures. I just never bothered to remove them for here. Maybe I should have, though, because the post wouldn't have been removed that way. But now I know I guess.

And I think you should know that I'm no longer a member of the Sashafans forum. That should speak volumes about where I stand re. her.

 

[hockeyfan228]

And I think you should know that I'm no longer a member of the Sashafans forum. That should speak volumes about where I stand re. her.

I think it speaks volumes about where you stand re: the Sashafans forum. I love Cohen's skating, but I wouldn't last two minutes there.

 

[R.D.]

well, I lasted a little longer than two minutes ...I was there for over three years total. I just became a more active poster there recently, though.

PS. I wasn't banned, BTW...it was my decision to leave.

 

[ladysarahchatto]

Again, I just gotta say when I see a thread entitled the "brilliance, magnificence, loveliness, greatness..pick your superlative adjective of X the skater , I know that I am looking at a fan thread full of gush. I don't have to open the thread in order to ascertain if a sober debate over the virtues or inadequacies of said skater is within. I already know that the fans are flocking there to concur with the greatness of X. It will be a futile mission to dive in there to show those fans the "light" from my perspective--even if I wanted to.

I like Michelle! But,she is not my all-time favorite. But, I am perfectly content for fans to enjoy speaking to each other in a gush thread without my "intervention." I am not sure why non-fans or so-so fans want to come in here to spoil the party. The thread title gives you plenty of warning. The natives don't need a missionary!

I have loved many many skaters over the years-most Americans, some not like Baiul. But only Michelle ever had me with tears streaming down my face. Her "Fields Of Gold" at the 2002 Olympics Expo-Wow.

That's all I can say about that.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I think it speaks volumes about where you stand re: the Sashafans forum. I love Cohen's skating, but I wouldn't last two minutes there.

Similarly, I'm a Kwaniac but with all my complaints about Kwan, I would be bombarded with 'traitor' if I entered the MK Forum.

I think complaining about a favorite is in the interest of the favorite. As I've said many times, the opposite of Love is Disinterest.

Joe

 

[R.D.]

I think complaining about a favorite is in the interest of the favorite. As I've said many times, the opposite of Love is Disinterest.

That's an odd stance to take. Now I see why some of you seem to think the way you do (about me). It's all making sense.

I strongly disagree with this, though. I say Hate is the opposite of love and most importantly Hate and Disinterest ARE NOT THE SAME THING (from what I understand). No wonder there are so many people calling nonfans "haters". This explains everything.

But another interesting point is that some fans of skaters (or at least people who call themselves fans of that skater) say that they often say many negative things which wouldn't be seen well on their fan forum.

An objective Kwan or Cohen fan? Never met one, but I suppose that doesn't mean they don't exist, I guess.

Fans of whatever skater will often lose it if enough non-positive things are said about their favorite. Some of the same people claiming they'd be shot down at their faves' fan forum are some of the same people going after those who don't care for their faves. Hmm...

I defend myself vigorously but I have NEVER lost it when someone has made a comment about ANY skater. (typically when I do get off the handle it's because someone has made a comment directed at ME.)

 

[Kwanford Wife]

Eye of the beholder...

http://www.ifsmagazine.com/archive/photo/1998/images/kwan01.jpg

Yup, those are pretty bad...

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

RD - Relax. Kwanfans and Sashadoras are totallly insignificant in this world. Are they really important enough for you or anyone to get so worked up about?

You seem to me to be so self-centered in that the whole world of figure skating is against your opinions. Not so.

Some of us wold like to hear you opine about other facets of figure skating, e.g., the ISU, the NJS, the USFSA, The skating disciplines other than the Ladies, etc. You have to admit, you are limited in your interest in figure skating. Do you think that disinterest is hate? I don't think so. I think it is just that you enjoy (love) to watch a certain lady skater, and it upsets you to read so much about another lady skater.

I would suggest you ignore Kwanfans and indeed, Kwan herself and get more active in another skater where you can produce positive posts instead of the same old negative Kwan posts. We've heard them all. Your health will definitely improve.

Joe

 

[R.D.]

RD - Relax. Kwanfans and Sashadoras are totallly insignificant in this world. Are they really important enough for you or anyone to get so worked up about?

You seem to me to be so self-centered in that the whole world of figure skating is against your opinions. Not so.

Some of us wold like to hear you opine about other facets of figure skating, e.g., the ISU, the NJS, the USFSA, The skating disciplines other than the Ladies, etc. You have to admit, you are limited in your interest in figure skating. Do you think that disinterest is hate? I don't think so. I think it is just that you enjoy (love) to watch a certain lady skater, and it upsets you to read so much about another lady skater.

I would suggest you ignore Kwanfans and indeed, Kwan herself and get more active in another skater where you can produce positive posts instead of the same old negative Kwan posts. We've heard them all. Your health will definitely improve.

Joe

I am limited in my skating interest. That is a true statement, and I think I've said this many times before. This shouldn't come as a surprise to people.

There was one time I took offense to being called a Sasha fan. I thought it was an insult because once upon a time Kwanfans were good and Sasha fans were bad. Even though I wasn't REALLY one, I still didn't like it. THAT's why I responded the way I did. But people mistook that for me ACTUALLY liking her.

Now, I don't care as much. But I still think that "Sasha fan" is a label some like to throw around when they don't like someone or they disagree with someone. I used to think it was just oversensitive Kwanfans who would think I'm one, but fans of other skaters I see are also now resorting to that sort of lowbrow comment. But you're right, it's not worth losing any sleep over. It just gets annoying when I post something and immediately people jump to a conclusion about me when they don't know for sure. I feel I am open about my opinions, if you can't already tell, and if I really WAS a fan of hers I would have told you by now. No shame there. But why people assume the far-fetched (or maybe not so, but still wrong) is sort of beyond me.

I would be repeating myself over and over again if I attempted to explain (again) why it's not that I think everyone is against my opinion. I figure those who want to believe me will, and those who won't, I can't change their perceptions of me no matter what I say. So I'll just leave it at that.

The italicized comment is the most off-base conjecture about me that I've ever read. How in the world can one assume who I like? I've told you who I don't like already. It's the same old stereotype: if you don't like this skater you MUST like this other one- no questions asked.

Yes, the over-the-top Kwanism gets to me. That should also not be a big surprise. But now she's out of competition, right...and she's still being talked about. Now, not the casual discussions (i.e. Will she come back next year) but the ones that say "She's the best ever". but you know what, after that comment I really shouldn't have said anything else. That was my bad and I apologize. Let's hug and make up.

 

[mzheng]

Similarly, I'm a Kwaniac but with all my complaints about Kwan, I would be bombarded with 'traitor' if I entered the MK Forum.

Joe

I doubt. Heather and Co don't ban ppl lightly. There are posters in MKF who constantly making dig at Kwan, even with a lot complains about them, they are not banned. Their posts may get a lot 'anti' posts against, but they are not banned.

IMO, MKF is most tolerated fan dedicated board among top competetors. A lot of gush, yeah, which fan dedicated board without gush of their own skaters? And frankly I've seen quite a few gush threads about Sasha, Irina, Shizuka, Mao, YuNa at general sections. I'm not a member of SashaFan or Irina's boards, but occationally I read there. I don't see so many gush threads about other skaters, or may be I diddn't read enough to find some?

This is another reason I like it here GS, a lot of diff fans and grownups who can disscuss things with rational.....And actually even here, even as a 'Kwaniac' I rarely join Kwan Gushing (although I admit I like to read them. , which help me appreciating her skating more. And since she has the body work which allow me to dig it up and review them. Like this thread brought up a few of her performances that I diddn't pay attention in past.), but I do cheer for her whenever she is in competetion.

 

[Dee4707]

Its ironic because you claim to be a non-fan, but your posts tend to make it very clear who you do & do not enjoy.

In Red Dog's defense, I guess now I wonder what constitutes being a fan??? I guess I feel like right now I am also a non-fan. To me there is a difference in having favorites and being a fan. I think the last time I could say I was or am a fan of ...........is Alexei. I have videos of him when he was just a little boy skating and stood in the cold to see him and joined a message board dedicated to him. Held my breath as he skated in 2002 until he reached his final pose. I have not done that again, so I ask the question, what constitutes being a fan??

Dee

 

[Kwanford Wife]

so I ask the question, what constitutes being a fan??

Dee

According to Websters: A fan is an enthusiatic follower or admirer / a device for producing a current of air...

So I guess a fan is someone who admirers a specific skater and spends a lot of time producing a lot of air about that person... i.e. us constant posters here at GSF arguing about people we don't know because we like their spirals or their spins...

I'm a fan of Michelle Kwan and I produce a lot of hot air about how she is the best ever... Yay Kwanford Wife!!!! Who are you a fan of?

 

[Kwanford Wife]

But now she's out of competition, right...and she's still being talked about. Now, not the casual discussions (i.e. Will she come back next year) but the ones that say "She's the best ever". but you know what, after that comment I really shouldn't have said anything else. That was my bad and I apologize. Let's hug and make up.

But she is... didn't you get the memo??

 

[R.D.]

The way I define a fan is someone who admires a person (typically what the person does) and somehow feels a connection, whether direct or indirect, to that person. So, by THAT definition, I'm not a fan of any skater. Nor am I an "enthusiastic follower or admirer" of any skater.

I should have asked that myself: What constitutes a fan, and how does one prove that an internet poster is a fan of someone without speculation or assumption?

 

[Mathman]

I like Michelle and I like you too Red Dog.

This is the best post on this thread.