Johnny Weir article lead story at ESPN.com

pippa · Jan 14, 2010

jennylovskt said:
I think you are over sensitive on the issue. If Johnny ever has had these concerns, he wouldn't have acted the way he's been acting.

jennylovskt, the issue being discussed is whether or not Johnny should be obligated to announce his sexual orientation to the media. He obviously DOES have an issue with doing that, since he has persistently refused to do it, despite numerous requests that he do so.

The question is not whether or not Johnny is flamboyant or masculine, or whether you approve of that. The question is not whether he should "act" in a way that is not natural to him because it would invite fewer questions and make some people feel less uncomfortable. That has nothing to do with whether or not he chooses to make an announcement to the media about who he sleeps with.

I am not overly sensitive, but you appear to be extremely so.

Medusa · Jan 15, 2010

Tinymavy15 said:
I don't think that Johnny owes it to anybody to make a statement of that kind. Nobody would ask that question of Brian Joubert or Evan.

Both Joubert and Lysacek had relationships with women that were at least partly publicised. I am also not quite sure Joubert was never asked it, there are lots of French interviews with him that we probably didn't get to read.

But others were asked it, too. Verner (no, I'm not), Lambiel (that's private), Chan (no, I'm not), Yagudin (no, I'm not). So it's not just Weir.

That's why I didn't talk explicitly about Weir in my post, as I said for the individual it must be difficult. Pippa mentioned the economic concerns, for lots of skaters especially from Russia but also from Asia there are probably political concerns - plus private concerns.

Still, it sends the wrong message. And at some point this vicious circle has to be broken. I just hope it happens sooner than later.

herro · Jan 15, 2010

Medusa said:
But others were asked it, too. Verner (no, I'm not), Lambiel (that's private), Chan (no, I'm not), Yagudin (no, I'm not). So it's not just Weir.

Still, it sends the wrong message. And at some point this vicious circle has to be broken. I just hope it happens sooner than later.

This is the problem I was talking about. I think it's wrong that male skaters are even being asked this question and are placed in positions where they have to defend their sexuality. It's not even just a couple of skaters, but male skaters are automatically stereotyped...

Medusa · Jan 15, 2010

herro said:
This is the problem I was talking about. I think it's wrong that male skaters are even being asked this question and are placed in positions where they have to defend their sexuality. It's not even just a couple of skaters, but male skaters are automatically stereotyped...

Pffff... Why is it wrong? People ask all kinds of relationship stuff, so why not if you fall in love with men or women or both?

Making it a total taboo isn't going to help anyone.

And if the athlete / person in question doesn't want to answer, he / she can just say that it's private. Like Joubert in the Eurosport interview a few weeks ago. He was asked if he was currently dating, and he said that after some bad experiences he prefers to keep these kind of things private. Question answered, nobody hurt.

R.D. · Jan 15, 2010

herro said:
It's not even just a couple of skaters, but male skaters are automatically stereotyped...

Not saying it's right, but...

look at the costumes many of them wear;
how flamboyant some (Weir in particular) act;
and just the general stigma that figure skating (in the US) is perceived as a girl's sport.

Nothing against Weir but as one of the top US skaters, he's certainly not helping to shelf this stereotype, that's for sure :laugh:

I mean, I originally wasn't going to bother with the article but I decided what the hell- and what do I find...he invited an ESPN reporter to a pedicure of all things?? err...No comment.

herro · Jan 15, 2010

Medusa said:
Pffff... Why is it wrong? People ask all kinds of relationship stuff, so why not if you fall in love with men or women or both?

Making it a total taboo isn't going to help anyone.

And if the athlete / person in question doesn't want to answer, he / she can just say that it's private. Like Joubert in the Eurosport interview a few weeks ago. He was asked if he was currently dating, and he said that after some bad experiences he prefers to keep these kind of things private. Question answered, nobody hurt.

I didn't mean to imply that I'm blaming journalism or that what they're doing is wrong. Of course relationship stuff is always near the top of the list for interviewing any celebrity or athlete, but I get the sense that specifically for male skaters, that question is coming in with the hopes of getting the skater to come out to the press or with the hidden implication that the skater is gay. I don't think it has to be made taboo, but I do have a problem with that underlying tone of homosexuality that surrounds men's figure skating. Sorry if I'm not being clear. This is the first time I'm talking about sexuality and skating, and I'm not sure if I'm implying things I don't mean to imply.

herro · Jan 15, 2010

R.D. said:
Not saying it's right, but...

look at the costumes many of them wear;
how flamboyant some (Weir in particular) act;
and just the general stigma that figure skating (in the US) is perceived as a girl's sport.

Nothing against Weir but as one of the top US skaters, he's certainly not helping to shelf this stereotype, that's for sure

I mean, inviting an ESPN reporter to a pedicure of all things?? No comment...

Haha, yea I know what you mean. It's such a complicated subject. Well, with Weir in particular, I feel he's sending somewhat of a mixed message like you said. He acts a certain way but refuses to clarify (justify?) his actions or behavior. I mean, yea, some people act silly (I don't mean to bash Weir here at all) but in general, I do have a problem with the stigma and stereotype... I mean I imagine it makes straight male figure skaters very uncomfortable. I know people in high school who've been repeatedly teased for skating, and he wasn't gay...

Medusa · Jan 15, 2010

herro said:
I mean I imagine it makes straight male figure skaters very uncomfortable. I know people in high school who've been repeatedly teased for skating, and he wasn't gay...

So if it makes them uncomfortable, it means that there is something wrong with being gay, at least in their opinion?

pippa said:
So Johnny is not the only male skater to have faced the questions about his orientation. But he is the only one who fans seem to feel should declare it publically.

Who is singling Johnny out? I actually love his message that masculinity is defined differently in different parts of the world. Lambiel said similar things in interviews. That is an important message. But in my opinion it's just as important to make clear to the world that there is nothing wrong with being gay.

Joubert's relationship with Marchei was also publicised, with several interviews and skating duets.

I would prefer it if they (gay, bisexual skaters) would make some big coming-out skating tour. Or something like that. Choreographed by David Wilson, produced by Brian Orser.

pippa · Jan 15, 2010

Medusa said:
Who is singling Johnny out? I actually love his message that masculinity is defined differently in different parts of the world. Lambiel said similar things in interviews. That is an important message. But in my opinion it's just as important to make clear to the world that there is nothing wrong with being gay.

Joubert's relationship with Marchei was also publicised, with several interviews and skating duets.

I would prefer it if they (gay, bisexual skaters) would make some big coming-out skating tour. Or something like that. Choreographed by David Wilson, produced by Brian Orser.

I would totally go see that tour.

It might even outsell SOI. But what company would we get to sponsor it?

Sorry, but it does seem that Johnny gets singled out quite a bit for the "why doesn't he just announce it" stuff, mostly because he has never gone along with the "public girlfriend" and repeated announcements about how he really wanted to be a hockey player and wants to make skating more masculine, etc. He is just himself, and that makes some people uncomfortable. But I don't see where it should be his problem if other people are uncomfortable with who he is, and I don't see how it makes him more obligated than any of the other men to declare his personal orientation to the media.

herro · Jan 15, 2010

Medusa said:
So if it makes them uncomfortable, it means that there is something wrong with being gay, at least in their opinion?

Not that there is something wrong with being gay, but that people are assuming that they're gay and that they're being called up to the plate to defend themselves when they shouldn't have to, because of a stereotype. I hope that makes it clearer. I mean, this applies to any situation in society. Any straight male would be uncomfortable if so many people thought and talked about him being gay. It's the stigma generally associated with homosexuality.

herro · Jan 15, 2010

That's completely true too, R.D. I'm sure they do know the stereotypes surrounding it before going in, but I'm sure it's still awkward for them whenever the question comes up. This is such a loaded topic...

Thanks for your inputs! :agree:

R.D. · Jan 15, 2010

herro said:
Thanks for your inputs! :agree:

np (no problem)

Medusa · Jan 15, 2010

herro said:
Not that there is something wrong with being gay, but that people are assuming that they're gay and that they're being called up to the plate to defend themselves when they shouldn't have to, because of a stereotype. I hope that makes it clearer. I mean, this applies to any situation in society. Any straight male would be uncomfortable if so many people thought and talked about him being gay. It's the stigma generally associated with homosexuality.

I don't get you normal people.

With all your stigmata and how you perceive things and how something might seem and what could be implied with that and that? Don't you have anything better to do than to try to guess the emotional / sexual status of people and the possible implications?

What's gay about a pedicure? I have never had one, does that make me a heterosexual male? I never thought there was anything gay about Johnny's skating either, or his wardrobe. I honestly never met a person and thought "Wow, he is acting gay." or "Wow, that's one butch woman." I also don't think that Joubert skates masculine, he just skates - just like Johnny just skates. Joubert with more accentuated muscle power and less smooth - but how is that more masculine?

herro · Jan 15, 2010

Medusa said:
I don't get you normal people.

With all your stigmata and how you perceive things and how something might seem and what could be implied with that and that? Don't you have anything better to do than to try to guess the emotional / sexual status of people and the possible implications?

What's gay about a pedicure? I have never had one, does that make me a heterosexual male? I never thought there was anything gay about Johnny's skating either, or his wardrobe. I honestly never met a person and thought "Wow, he is acting gay." or "Wow, that's one butch woman." I also don't think that Joubert skates masculine, he just skates - just like Johnny just skates. Joubert with more accentuated muscle power and less smooth - but how is that more masculine?

Wow, I feel a little singled out, I'm not gonna lie. Because the topic was revolving around the concept of homosexuality and the press/public, I thought I'd chip in my opinions on the whole stigma surrounding men's figure skating. I don't see what's so wrong with my posts here. I haven't been trying to "guess the sexual status of people." I don't get why you feel this way.

I hope you don't mean the second paragraph. How could you be unaware of societal views and perceptions of homosexuality? Maybe it's different in Europe, that I don't know. I have absolutely positively nothing against gay people, but I seriously just don't get it.

Tinymavy15 · Jan 15, 2010

Sorry, but it does seem that Johnny gets singled out quite a bit for the "why doesn't he just announce it" stuff, mostly because he has never gone along with the "public girlfriend" and repeated announcements about how he really wanted to be a hockey player and wants to make skating more masculine, etc.

I almost wish Johnny would be seen hanging out with a pretty girl....just to get people talking. That 's the best way to keep up your Poker Face ;-)

But others were asked it, too. Verner (no, I'm not), Lambiel (that's private), Chan (no, I'm not), Yagudin (no, I'm not). So it's not just Weir.

I didn't know anybody had asked them! I guess Yagudin's answer was verified when he got married and had a child.
I had no idea that Stepahne and Carolina were dating. I guess living in the U.S news like that doesn't reach us. I knew they trained together. Lucky girl.

jennylovskt · Jan 15, 2010

Plushenko had been asked by a man to go out. He answered, " Sorry, I'm not built that way."

dorispulaski · Jan 15, 2010

Considering the amount of trouble skaters get into with their feet from time to time, a pedicure sounds like a good idea to me. Did anyone here see the episode of Queer Eye for the Straight Guy featuring John Zimmerman (pair skater with Kyoko Ina, at the time, married to Sylvia Fontana) where his feet were a mess, and they got him a pedicure?

Mrs. P · Jan 15, 2010

I think Weir has grown on me over the years. I find him to be refreshing these days. He has other interests (granted they might not be the same as my own -- though I wouldn't mind getting my nails done!), has expressed his aspirations after skating (could we see Johnny Weir make it to Fashion Week?) and just has shown a geniune personality.

I felt the article was pretty fair and I feel like the articles I've read about him have been good by the very nature that Johnny has been upfront and honest about who he is....even when he's dogging the sexuality question.

antmanb · Jan 15, 2010

Hsuhs said:
His bots will appear and explain that to you very quickly.

You were not wrong!

Ant

inside edge · Jan 15, 2010

jennylovskt said:
People should stop asking this silly question to Johnny, as I've said before, he won't tell no matter how you ask. On the other hand, I don't think Johnny is afraid of the result if he tells the specific. I just think that he wants to be the way he wants, that's the reason that he acted this way. So let's be the way it is. It really doesn't matter one way or the other.

:yes: :yes:

Johnny Weir article lead story at ESPN.com

pippa

Medusa

herro

Medusa

R.D.

herro

herro

Medusa

pippa

herro

herro

R.D.

Medusa

herro

Tinymavy15

Sinnerman for the win

jennylovskt

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

antmanb

inside edge

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