What will the 2011/2012 season bring us in the men?

Joesitz (RIP) · Jun 1, 2011

No one is saying anyone is done. Only a skater can say that about himself. What I am trying to convey is that every skater reaches a prime position in figure skating and how long can he hold on to it. If we use the term peak, we will be talking about competitive prowess, and that's not what I am driving at.

Maybe, if i saix, a Skater who has skated his 'best', could he maintain that perfection for more than one showing? (Nothing to do with medals).

I've seen Takahashi at his best in 2007 Worlds and again in Worlds 2010, but he lost it in 2011. For that reason, I thought he is not skating his best. I am not trying to put him down - just thinking about the differences in the two Worlds. He may bounce back in 2012. We'll see, but I'll be looking only for the spark - not the medal.

mot · Jun 1, 2011

Joe, I think I am in complete agreement with you.

Neda · Jun 1, 2011

I hope Nobunary Oda keeps his place in team this season. He has everything to be podium contender. To win world medal Oda needs only one thing – to kill Charlie Chaplin in himself. This image of little man, comic looser who is guilty in everything, works bad for him, may be he just doesn't have Chaplin's sense of humor and takes all ridiculous accidents too seriously. It's not a comedy but a tragedy in his case. Also he should stop to be kind, polite, modest and self-critical. Can you imagine Plushenko getting 0 points for the great 3A+3T combo and saying after this: "I am really disappointed with my performance, because I was training not to do these mistakes"? I'd rather believe him to say: “My performance was perfect but this stupid rule has to be changed at last”. Oda's coaches firmly injected bad luck into him by this training. Insteed he badly needs somebody to say: “Nobu, you are the best skater ever. You lost this champ because you was too good for their corrupted podium but next time you defenitely will be a champion”. And he really will be on podium next time. It's nice for a skater to have some healthy self-criticism but self confidence is much more important.

mot · Jun 1, 2011

Olympia said:
Not that this applies to the men's thread, but this is why it baffles me when people suggest that Mao Asada has passed her peak. Are they just watching with a measuring tape?

I sincerely hope they are wrong, as I am still waiting for Mao to blossom! Actually I have been since 2005, in a way... She's been such a beautiful skater and a pure joy to watch, but she has never 'touched my heart' the way some other skaters have. She has made me smile and breathe a sigh of pleasure, but never given a shiver down my spine. Perhaps it's just me, then I probably need more time watching her perform till I click? I waited until last season to click with Miki's, and I will be patient if I have to.

Joesitz (RIP) · Jun 1, 2011

let`s talk said:
When you watch skating on TV, the camera puts everyone in the center, and they all look "similar" in height, weight, etc. Even if we all know that they are not, the TV practically hides the difference. Another story is when you watch men's competitions live. That is when Mr. Gigantesque Torso is at his best. Brian, Plush, etc. I want to see more masculinity on ice. I am sure I will be luckier next year.

Your type of rationale is not alone. Many people believe that boys wear blue and girls wear pink. Brian and Plush were the top jumpers during their era. Is that what masculinity is all about - Jumps?

The LIVE audience at competitions is quite aware of the tech, but what gets them into Ovation Mood is Musical skating. However, the nitpicking CoP does give the Tech edge to Jumps and those jumps are appreciated if the flow, transitions, are consistent with the music. In my opinion, it has nothing do with the sexes. Men can get a viewer emotional. Check out the last scene of Giselle, and watch him realize he will never see his love again.

silverlake22 · Jun 1, 2011

ImaginaryPogue said:
Which oldtimers?

According to a lot of posters - Abbott, Joubert, Verner, Oda, Takahashi, KVDP, Plushenko, etc

pangtongfan · Jun 1, 2011

Mao looked on the way down back in 2009 as late as the fall events, but made a great comeback at the end of the season with excellent performances at Four Continents, Japanese Nationals, the Olympics, and Worlds. This past season she was redoing her jump technique and hoping it to pay off long term. I am not sure if this will turn out to be a good idea. She has lost alot of ground at her PCS at Worlds even for faulty performances suggest the judges arent going to hold her up in the future if she doesnt produce.

She is a real underachiever IMO. She has had an outstanding career no matter what happens from here but had the potential to be the greatest female skater ever IMO. Now she might end up with an inferior career to Miki Ando of all people (although unlikely since Miki probably wont win another World title or an Olympic medal in Sochi but still possible). Kim is already looked at as the dominant skater of this era, and not Mao, and I doubt that will ever change.

pangtongfan · Jun 1, 2011

silverlake22 said:
According to a lot of posters - Abbott, Joubert, Verner, Oda, Takahashi, KVDP, Plushenko, etc

And which of those skaters do you think still has their best days ahead of them? Ironically it would probably be easiest for KVDP since he never had much success to begin with, LOL!

seniorita · Jun 1, 2011

Joesitz said:
Your type of rationale is not alone. Many people believe that boys wear blue and girls wear pink. Brian and Plush were the top jumpers during their era. Is that what masculinity is all about - Jumps?

The LIVE audience at competitions is quite aware of the tech, but what gets them into Ovation Mood is Musical skating. However, the nitpicking CoP does give the Tech edge to Jumps and those jumps are appreciated if the flow, transitions, are consistent with the music. In my opinion, it has nothing do with the sveexes. Men can get a viewer emotional. Check out the last scene of Giselle, and watch him realize he will never see his love again.

Plushenko and Joubert have gotten SO in 6.0 and Cop, in good and bad audiences all over the continents, and I doubt any of both is the most musical skater ever.
I dont think audience likes masculanity or musicality or not, jumps or not, and decides this skater is not musical or manly enough, we wont get up. I believe they like clean strong performaces, and the skater being confident and happy!It is totally how someone sells his/her program and reaches the other side of the rink.Most important is if they show they actually like being there and skating rather than afraid and not comfortable.
As for the future, kozuka and hanyu, i look forward to their new season! :hb:

Joesitz (RIP) · Jun 1, 2011

I took it that this is not a prediction thread. It's just what we know about how well a skater performs. I am certain there will be a thread about the what the Ladies will bring in the new season.

ImaginaryPogue · Jun 1, 2011

silverlake22 said:
According to a lot of posters - Abbott, Joubert, Verner, Oda, Takahashi, KVDP, Plushenko, etc

Right, I know which skaters can be considered old timers. My question was which ones do you feel have the determination and the guts to rise up?

silverlake22 · Jun 1, 2011

ImaginaryPogue said:
Right, I know which skaters can be considered old timers. My question was which ones do you feel have the determination and the guts to rise up?

Idk, Abbott and Verner maybe, since the talent has always been there but never really got them anywhere, and they are rewarded when they skate well. But I mean, I guess they have had a lot of chances already, but who knows, maybe they'll be late bloomers? Tomas sounded really determined to work hard and make a World podium before he retires and to try and continue until Sochi in a recent interview, and it sounded convincing. Jeremy has said similar things.

I also think if Takahashi and Joubert want it enough, they could have a convincing renaissance. They're both very hard working and have their reputations on their side.

blue_idealist · Jun 1, 2011

silverlake22 said:
idk, abbott and verner maybe, since the talent has always been there but never really got them anywhere, and they are rewarded when they skate well. But i mean, i guess they have had a lot of chances already, but who knows, maybe they'll be late bloomers? Tomas sounded really determined to work hard and make a world podium before he retires and to try and continue until sochi in a recent interview, and it sounded convincing. Jeremy has said similar things.

I also think if takahashi and joubert want it enough, they could have a convincing renaissance. They're both very hard working and have their reputations on their side.

ita.

LuCN · Jun 1, 2011

well,audience are much easier than someone thought.They give SO for their favourite skaters,what ever he did.They cheer for the skaters from their country.Sometimes they give SO to someone who really did best,but not always.

It's usually not about the perfomance,the technology,the jumps,just because people love them.

I went to see COC and GPF,Joubert on COC and Verner on GPF got the warmest cheer and SO from the local audience,do you think they did the best?

pangtongfan · Jun 1, 2011

The way Abbott has been scored since after Vancouver suggest the judges have already dumped him. Maybe it was how badly he let them down in both Los Angeles and Vancouver, it is rare someone has so much buzz to win two major events and doesnt even make top 10. Even at Nationals last year his scores are low now so what he puts out, especialy in the short program, the USFSA isnt even fond of him anymore. I can understand his continuing but I dont think he has much chance to do anything big from here. He wont get any help from the judges, that is for sure, he is going to have go out there thinking he needs to skate lights out if he is to have a prayer of even getting a bronze in a major event someday, and he will need to now skate close to or at his best to even make a U.S world team again.

I guess it is possible for Takashashi or Verner to make a comeback still if they put in ALOT of work. Joubert just needs to retire already though, as well as Plushenko. Is pro skating really that bad, I thought in Europe it was pretty good.

Spun Silver · Jun 1, 2011

Is there any question about Takahashi putting in the work? I think it's more a matter of whether he can pull a miracle out of his body or not.

LuCN · Jun 1, 2011

always see people claim Abbott is underscored...

but does he really deserve higher score last season?GPs?especially on nations?

he always drop before the music is over.everytime he made mainly mistakes.look at his COR LP and nation LP,I really disappointed.

if he can't make his mind more strength,I think he should go to shows,not compete anymore.

Binthere · Jun 1, 2011

Was genuinely impressed by the improvement in performance ability and maturity from both of the young Americans, Ricky and Ross. Ricky seems to have taken all of his hard knocks and journey-man toiling as a junior and turned these into lessons which he learned well This he demonstrated with his performances at Nationals and Worlds, and confidence in a young man is not to be underestimated. Ross seemed to get a wake-up call after Grand Prix season, and put his nose to the grindstone. When an athlete gets that kind of clarity of purpose, it can be very powerful. For it to manifest so promptly with such opportunity creating results, is wonderful to see and another reason to be truly inspired. The one in the US who I look with great hope to look inside, reach deep and emerge with something even more powerful is Adam. This next generation is full of positive stuff which I think is what makes for better performances, better athletes and a better sport.

Joesitz (RIP) · Jun 2, 2011

The 'old timers' as we might call Plushy, Brian, KvdP, and the 'near old timers' Abbott, Oda, Takahashi, are facing the new young breed. We cam not expect the old timers at their present age to skate the wow programs they did at age 20. Age and boredom must be dealt with or they may be competing just to avoid the emptiness felt upon leaving the sport. The new breed at 20 want to get themselves established as a future gold medalist.

There is no valid prediction here. It's a question of who among the 'old timers' will have one more last hurrah, and who among the 'young breed' will make his dream a reality? The answers are a Wait and See.

mskater93 · Jun 2, 2011

Joesitz said:
The 'old timers' as we might call Plushy, Brian, KvdP, and the 'near old timers' Abbott, Oda, Takahashi, are facing the new young breed. We cam not expect the old timers at their present age to skate the wow programs they did at age 20.

I certainly HOPE Abbott doesn't skate the same way he did when he was 20. He struggled with the 3A and while had beautiful blade to ice, could not present an interesting program because he seemed preoccupied with the 3A. Once the 3A was solid, he started bringing his "soul" to the ice but that was around the age of 23. :biggrin:

What will the 2011/2012 season bring us in the men?

Joesitz (RIP)

mot

Neda

mot

Joesitz (RIP)

silverlake22

pangtongfan

Match Penalty

pangtongfan

Match Penalty

seniorita

Joesitz (RIP)

ImaginaryPogue

silverlake22

blue_idealist

LuCN

pangtongfan

Match Penalty

Spun Silver

LuCN

Binthere

Joesitz (RIP)

mskater93

Similar threads

Connect with us