Lillehammer 1994 - Ladies' Free Skate

If Tonya had won a medal in Lillehammer, would it have later been revoked just like her national title was revoked?

I often wonder what would have happened if the USFS had moved other skaters up a placement, rather than leaving the title "vacant". Kwan would have then had the most national titles in history. For example, this happened with the 2000 Olympic women's gymnastic team when the Chinese lied about their age, the US was bumped up for bronze. I always figured that it was the USFS's way of paying respect to Nancy Kerrigan, who most likely would have beaten Kwan, should there have been a real competition.

lcd said:

Josee's situation was very unfortunate, and "unfair" but ... that is also the nature of competition.

IMO I think if one were to compare the skating and performance that Yuka delivered at Worlds that year with any of the medal winning programs from the Olympics, her gold medal winning skate would stand up quite well. Yuka is like many of the skaters who have such high quality edges and speed. The TV does them a disservice because it is harder to appreciate the speed and harder to thrill in the quietness of edge. Yuka's skating most resembles Janet Lynn's IMO and to me she really and truly delivered under the super high pressured circumstance known as "Worlds before a Home Crowd" She is a deserving champion - both for her skate and for her competitive performance and delivery.

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Thanks for making that point! I completely agree. It's always been interesting to me how many people count Yuka as one of their favorite skaters, though she doesn't always make it onto statistical lists of greats. She almost flies under the radar, and yet I'm far from the only one who's got her on a "life list" of favorite skaters. I'm by no means an expert on technical matters (though I've learned so much here on GS), but in the case of Yuka, I know it when I see it. Isn't it particularly satisfying that she also went on to explore pairs skating and then to excel as a coach? This is a lady who seems to embody the best in skating: devotion, meticulous technique, musicality, sportsmanship, and now the ability to pass along what she knows.

As for your post, leafygreens, I never thought of either of those aspects before. Golly, you're right that Michelle would have nudged past Maribel Vinson Owen with ten national championships. I like your interpretation that they left the title vacant as a gesture to Nancy.

MasterB said:

As much as I loved Josee she could never hold it together. I think Tonya has taken enough abuse. Say what you want but, Tonya made many skaters wealthy in the 90's including Josee.

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This.

People within the skating World are literally begging for another scandal to happen to increase interest in North America.

The problem is, people have to care about the sport to begin with. With the way figure skating is these days...I don't think as many people would care regardless. People aren't as engaged by the competitions anymore; there is less suspense, less drama, less ART, and a disconnect with being able to understand the actual scores.

Olympia said:

Your statement in the first paragraph says what I've been thinking. It isn't whether Josee would have medaled; it's that she was deprived of the Olympics she should have had, even if that meant getting nervous and underperforming. At least it would have been for her own sake, not because someone else goofed things up for her.

As for your second paragraph, I don't know what factors led to Yuka's world championship, but I'm so glad she achieved it. What a delightful skater, and she only got better as a pro.

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Olympia - the three medalists from Lillehammer - ALL of them were no-shows at the Worlds which followed the following month. Oksana Baiul was still recovering from the injury she sustained in the collision suffered during the practice for the Olympic long program, Nancy Kerrigan left the eligible ranks, and Lu Chen was nursing an ankle injury (or some other injury). The competition was still strong, of course, with the women who placed 4th and lower at the Olympics in the hunt for the medals at the Worlds.

I certainly agree with you about the quality of Yuka Sato's skating. She skates with such ease, grace, and skill and makes everything look so natural and easy. She's a real charmer on the ice. Had she remained in the eligible ranks through the next Olympics, perhaps she and Michelle would have had some very interesting head-to-head matchups at the Worlds, through the 1998 Olympics.

Olympia said:

As for your post, leafygreens, I never thought of either of those aspects before. Golly, you're right that Michelle would have nudged past Maribel Vinson Owen with ten national championships. I like your interpretation that they left the title vacant as a gesture to Nancy.

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Playing devil's advocate against myself, but it could have been vacant as a gesture to Tonya too, because she was good enough to win it, yet ethically they just couldn't let her keep it.

Blades of Passion said:

The problem is, people have to care about the sport to begin with. With the way figure skating is these days...I don't think as many people would care regardless. People aren't as engaged by the competitions anymore; there is less suspense, less drama, less ART, and a disconnect with being able to understand the actual scores.

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IMO the general public is not engaged, probably because the singles skaters don't have careers anymore. There is no Michelle or any other name that anyone knows. IJS has made it more fair, in my opinion, but it also means that standings are so volatile that one person doesn't win it all anymore. The popularity of Ice dance is booming, and many partners have been together for years. I do not think this is a coincidence. But I do not think it will take off like singles or pairs because it is "boring" to the lay person (no jumps) and slightly hard to justify as a sport because it's "dance."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_World_Figure_Skating_Championships#Ladies

At 1994 Worlds, even with all 3 Olympic medallists (and Tonya Harding for that matter) missing, Josee Chouinard couldn't manage a medal. She finished 5th. The more I think about it, the more it seems highly unlikely that Josee would have medalled at Olympics, under any circumstances.

dorispulaski said:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_World_Figure_Skating_Championships#Ladies

At 1994 Worlds, even with all 3 Olympic medallists (and Tonya Harding for that matter) missing, Josee Chouinard couldn't manage a medal. She finished 5th. The more I think about it, the more it seems highly unlikely that Josee would have medalled at Olympics, under any circumstances.

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Doris, that isn't the point several of us have been trying to make. It is not a matter of whether or not Josee Chouinard would have won a medal at Lillehammer had she been given the opportunity to skate her long program without the distractions/interruptions caused by Tonya Harding's antics. She did not have a realistic change of medaling. However, she should have been given the opportunity to skate her long program without dealing with the Harding "stuff".

I kind of agree with the pro-Josee stance, but at the same time, she should have been paying more close attention to where Tonya was in her program and when she had to go on. Even I do this in my small competitions that don't matter a hill of beans compared to the Olympics. Instead, Josee looked completely flummoxed, like she was positioned no where near the ice and had to run to get there. That's cutting it a little to close. As someone else mentioned, by the time Tonya went over and mimed to the judges, enough time would have passed to be equivalent to her finishing the program. I would be more willing to bet that Josee was distracted by what was going on with Tonya than time being a factor. Which sucks, but not having enough time isn't really a good excuse. She should have been ready to go on the whole time Tonya was skating.

Josee has said in interviews that she was provided with enough time to prepare. She may have rushed herself, but no one forced her to take her opening pose before she was ready. Josee has taken full responsibility for her not so good long program. She was definitely a beautiful skater, but not a great competitor. Mistakes were pretty common for her and I didn't find her Free program to be 'unlike' her past performances in high pressure comptitions.

Compare to Michele Kwan at World's when someone ran out on the ice during her performance. Security was really poor and it took several seconds for her to realize that someone was out there with her. She had to return to the ice and start her performance over.

I think it boils down to...

Josee: Sweet
Tonya: Not sweet
Incident by Tonya, who was already quite lucky to compete in the first place, being given an out she might not have deserved/rules didn't exactly permit.
Time informing us that she wasn't completely innocent of the circumstances (ergo not deserving of the Olympic spot in the first place)

In the end, I don't think it would've changed much, but it would've been better if it hadn't happened. Hell, wouldn't the same thing (going on ice early) have happened if Tonya did get disqualified for not being on the ice? And hoping she could get a medal means hoping one of Lu, Baiul and Kerrigan didn't get it, and that seems churlish.