Canadian Ladies: Where do they go from here?

I agree with all your points, Dragonlady. However, I have noticed over the years that the skaters who have a breakthrough at Canadians are often also the ones who go to several competitions in the summer/fall season. Examples from this past season:

1. Kaetlyn Osmond: competed at Glencoe Club compeition (short only), Wild Rose, BC Summerskate (short only), Sask Skate, Octoberfest.
2. Gabrielle Daleman: competed at a North Bay competition, Scarboro Skate, Skate Detroit, Thornhill, Isabelle Henderson and Octoberfest.
3. Alaine Chartrand: competed at Scarboro Skate, Lake Placid, Minto Summer Skate, Thornhill, Autumn Skate and Octoberfest.

Getting more competitive experience doesn't guarantee better results later in the season, but there does seem to be some correlation between more summer competitions and success later in the season. While I agree with you about the negative effects of not having finals and not having NACs, it seems that even without those higher-pressure situations in the competitions, the additional competitive experience benefit the skaters.

This doesn't apply IMO to skaters who already have the necessary competitive experience, such as V/M, Jeff Buttle or Takahashi/Tran. They are already competing at such a high level that the summer competitions can't simulate the pressure they would experience in a normal competition. For them the summer competitions are only for getting the programs out there.

All of this presumes that the skaters actually have the necessary skills in practice (jumps, step sequences, etc) and just need experience to transfer that into a competitive situation.

In the past the Quebec skaters and the BC skaters didn't seem to do many summer competitions, and they also remained rather insular, only competing in Quebec or BC respectively. For some of the Quebec skaters that seems to be changing, as some are now competing at Liberty and Minto as well as the competitions in Quebec. For BC skaters it's more difficult, as distances are long to other competitions, but some have been entering competitions on the prairies or going down to California competitions. I think that will benefit them.

geoskate said:

I agree with all your points, Dragonlady. However, I have noticed over the years that the skaters who have a breakthrough at Canadians are often also the ones who go to several competitions in the summer/fall season. Examples from this past season:

1. Kaetlyn Osmond: competed at Glencoe Club compeition (short only), Wild Rose, BC Summerskate (short only), Sask Skate, Octoberfest.
2. Gabrielle Daleman: competed at a North Bay competition, Scarboro Skate, Skate Detroit, Thornhill, Isabelle Henderson and Octoberfest.
3. Alaine Chartrand: competed at Scarboro Skate, Lake Placid, Minto Summer Skate, Thornhill, Autumn Skate and Octoberfest.

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First off, Octoberfest and Scarboro Skate are not summer comps. Scarboro is and end-of-season spring comp and Octoberfest is a warm-up for Sectionals. Wild Rose, BC Summerskate, Minto, Wild Rose, Lake Placid and Thornhill are summer comps. The rest I'm not sure about. I note that Osmond did her short only at Glencoe and BC, and Osmond has the advantage of not having been to Worlds, so her season ended a month earlier than Samson. Skaters who do Worlds get a later start at their programs than those who stay home.

Yes, doing comps is helpful. I've been advocating more competitive opportunities for the girls since they dropped NAC's and finals for all groups, but saying that a skater is not maximizing their opportunities by not having both programs ready for competition in August is flat out ridiculous.

Are there that many more summer competitions here in the US for the top US Junior Ladies skaters then in Canada? Why is that?

There are several Canadian girls competing in the Junior Ladies at the US' Liberty competition this weekend.

Jammers said:

Are there that many more summer competitions here in the US for the top US Junior Ladies skaters then in Canada? Why is that?

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The USA has more people.

Canadian skaters have also signed up to compete at Skate Detroit and the Lake Placid dance event next week, as well as Skate Indy (Pairs) and Glacier Falls the week after that.

Jammers said:

Are there that many more summer competitions here in the US for the top US Junior Ladies skaters then in Canada? Why is that?

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I have no idea how many competitions there are in either country. We've only mentioned a handful of big competitions in this thread. Skate Canada requires that national team members participate in at least one of the top level summer comps, either in Canada or the US. There is a list of events and Liberty is one of the designated comps. That's why so many Canadian kids go to Liberty. Thornhill is on the USFSA'S list so we see lots of US kids at Thornhill.

The junior skaters usually have better performances at the summer comps than the senior skaters because the international season for juniors starts at the end of August. Those skaters who are looking to get JGP assignments need to show they're ready to go and turn in a good skate.

There are very few US skaters on the final Thornhill entry list. I see only Alexe Gilles (training in Canada, so may be planning to represent Canada) and the new Senior dance team Aranow / Brubaker.

One problem in Canada has been the scheduling. In many years the Thornhill and Quebec competitions ( not this year thankfully ) have been on the same week. A factor like that dilutes the quality of the field. If they were held in different weeks, I would not be surprised if a number of skaters would choose to compete at both events, increasing competition quality immediately.

Many years the 3 biggest summer comps ( Thornhill, Quebec and BC ) have all been held on the same week.)
Really if I were Skate Canada I would schedule the events differently so that both the easterners and westerners get an early summer comp to go to ( before the entry deadline of the first JGP ) and one a little later ( more for late JGP and senior B consideration )

I know the individual sections ( except for Minto which is organized by the Minto Skating Club ) organize the competitions but Skate Canada should step in and make sure the scheduling of the competitions makes sense.

The other problem is the lack of event finals ( Thornhill excepted from pre-novice to junior ) where there are so many entries that the ladies have to be separated in different groups.

To me even the juveniles and pre-juveniles need event finals. Right now the only time that the best juveniles and pre-juvs within a section are guaranteed to compete against each other is at sectionals.

Too often our ladies compete in diluted fields where it does not take much to win the field. That is poor preparation for the international circuit.

This year, Thornhill and BC Summerskate are being held at the same time.

nadster said:

To me even the juveniles and pre-juveniles need event finals. Right now the only time that the best juveniles and pre-juvs within a section are guaranteed to compete against each other is at sectionals.

Too often our ladies compete in diluted fields where it does not take much to win the field. That is poor preparation for the international circuit.

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IMO, this is the primary reason why our girls are struggling internationally and it is only applicable to the Ladies' events. For the other three disciplines, there are not enough entries to make more than one group so the Men, Pairs and Dance are always competing against the best skaters in their discipline. If all you need to win your group is one or two triples, that's all you will learn.

CANADIAN SKATERS ENTERED SKATE DETROIT 7/24-28:

SENIOR
Men
Caden ARMSTRONG
Elladj BALDE
Shaquille DAVIS
Liam FIRUS
Benjamin GUTHRIE
Andrei ROGOZINE
Dustin SHERRIFF-CLAYTON

Ladies
Zoey BROWN
Kate CHARBONNEAU
Alaine CHARTRAND
Adriana DESANCTIS
Kelsey McNEIL
Gabrielle Anne CORMIER
Gabrielle DALEMAN
Cassandra McDONNELL
Alexandra NAJARRO
Kaetlyn OSMOND

Pairs
Kirsten MOORE-TOWERS / Dylan MOSCOVITCH
Taylor STEELE / Rob SCHULTZ
Margaret PURDY / Michael MARINARO

JUNIOR
Men
Mitchell BRENNAN
Anthony KAN
Denis MARGALIK
Roman SADOVSKY
Alistair SYLVESTER
Drew WOLFE
Alexander ZAHARIEV

Ladies
Hayleigh BELL
Julia CENEDESE
Sheena HARDWICK-KELLY
Katrina JEROMKIN
Barbara KUKLA
Sophia SHIM
Maddie GERMANN
Leah HYSLOP
Brittany JONES
Yasmeen JONG
Katerina KRAMBLE
Ellen MAYS
Karina TJEW
Madelyn DUNLEY
Meagan LO
Robin MARISSINK
Lisa NASU-YU

Pairs
Brittany JONES / Ian BEHARRY
Hayleigh BELL / Alistair SYLVESTER
Dylan CONWAY / Dustin SHERRIFF-CLAYTON
Mary ORR / Anthony FURIANO
Shalena RAU / Phelan SIMPSON

Thanks for the info!

First of all I am happy to see many junior and senior skaters in Canada doing the American competitions this year, more so IMO than in other years ( although a sizeable amount of Canadian skaters have always taken that option ).

My main concern is the lack of quality ( key word is quality ) opportunites for our novice and lower skaters to compete.

The juniors and seniors don't have to adjust their programs for US standards.

OTOH, the Canadian and American rules for the lower levels are different so the lower level skaters would understandably not want to compete in the US where requirements are different.

This is why it is even more important at the lower levels to have event finals. If the Canadian skaters have to wait till junior level to compete in quality competitions, the battle would be lost. Only by having event finals will our lower level ladies get the quality competitions they deserve which encourage an environment of the skaters constantly pushing each other.

Also holding competitions at the same time does not make sense especially when the 2 venues involved are reasonably close.

In addition to the Canadian seniors and juniors competing at Skate Detroit, there are also more than 30 Canadian novice ladies and two Canadian men, as well as a few intermediate (pre-novice) and juvenile ladies and men.

Maybe Canada should go to the US, Russia and Japan and offer to take their second string???? Makarova and the Polina's aren't that bad to represent Canada. Could even sneak in for top ten?

Don't look now, but Alexe Gilles will be skating at the Thornhill competition. It will be interesting to see whether she lists herself as competing for the Scarborough club, considering her sister Piper is teamed with Paul Poirier in dance and competes for Scarborough.

I would guess that Alexe will be trying to qualify for Canadian Nationals pretty soon...

Of course, she's more like US 3rd or 4th string, and the US first string isn't that strong these days...

My understanding is that Alex is training in Toronto, but I don't know if she's at Scarborough or one of the other clubs. She's also scheduled to skate at the Scarborough Gala next week as a "guest skater".

Skater Boy said:

Maybe Canada should go to the US, Russia and Japan and offer to take their second string???? Makarova and the Polina's aren't that bad to represent Canada. Could even sneak in for top ten?

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Canada can take Makarova, but Russia won't give away the Polinas - they're still pretty good.

There's still another Polina---Polina Edmunds in the US (her mother is Russian). Edmunds recently landed 3z+3t AND 3f+3t in a summer competition, scoring 114.22 in the FS. She should be JGP bound.