Miki Ando or Kanako Murakami for the 3rd spot ?

Which skaters would you like to see getting the 3rd spot at Japanese national ?

Miki Ando or Kanako Murakami ?

I enjoy both skaters, but I would have choose Kanako Murakami, if she would have keep her program from last year, but this year I don't like her choice of music and the choreography for both the SP and the FS.

So, I would like to see Miki Ando getting that 3rd spot because I enjoy more her skating this year, I like her music and her choreography for both program and I find her very inspiring and brave to make this comeback after having a baby.

I would much rather see Murakami since Ando has already been to 2 Olympics, and she isnt any sort of contender if she does make it. Murakami isnt much a contender if she makes it based on her season either, but atleast she would get to experience the Olympics which someone who was 4th at the pre Olympic Worlds deserves.

I agree. Miki has had her time and at 26 i can't see her continuing to compete past this season.

if they will really stick to she must win nationals to get a spot
then there isn't much of a chance for Miki to be on the team

The Japanese Fed won't put her on the team even if she wins nationals.

Mao Asada will win Nationals, no problem. Since there is NO chance for Miki to win, she will not be going to Sochi.

I'm not sure why coming 2nd to Mao won't put her in the running. If she comes 2nd or 3rd, you can imagine the JSF would reserve their Sochi team picks until perhaps a skate-off at 4CC.

And it's honestly the fairest way to do it. If Ando fairly beats Murakami/Miyahara at Nats and 4CC why wouldn't she deserve to go as one of the 3 best Japanese skaters at that point (regardless of her past successes or newbies being denied Olympic experiences).

Miki is bringing out some big tricks for these Nationals it seems - I saw her land a 2a-3t and 2a-2lo-2lo in practice, so whoever gets the third spot will have to skate well.

I'm in two minds here. One the one hand I adore miki & have since I first saw her at the 2003 Junior Worlds but she has had two chances at the Olympics now & is nearing the end of her career. On the other hand Kanako is young & will have other chances & can be inconsistent. But needs to go to the Olympics as Akiko & Mao look likely to retire after Sochi & she will be the Japan number one.
I would love to see all four go to Sochi. It's a shame only a max of three from each country get to go to an Olympics or Worlds. I love so many skaters from Russia & USA too but only a select few will go.

MidnightSkater said:

I'm in two minds here. One the one hand I adore miki & have since I first saw her at the 2003 Junior Worlds but she has had two chances at the Olympics now & is nearing the end of her career. On the other hand Kanako is young & will have other chances & can be inconsistent. But needs to go to the Olympics as Akiko & Mao look likely to retire after Sochi & she will be the Japan number one.
I would love to see all four go to Sochi. It's a shame only a max of three from each country get to go to an Olympics or Worlds. I love so many skaters from Russia & USA too but only a select few will go.

Click to expand...

Someone on "The Skating Lesson" site said Kanako will retire after this season. I don't know if it's true or not, but I hope she change her mind and continue competing after Sochi.

CanadianSkaterGuy said:

I'm not sure why coming 2nd to Mao won't put her in the running. If she comes 2nd or 3rd, you can imagine the JSF would reserve their Sochi team picks until perhaps a skate-off at 4CC.

And it's honestly the fairest way to do it. If Ando fairly beats Murakami/Miyahara at Nats and 4CC why wouldn't she deserve to go as one of the 3 best Japanese skaters at that point (regardless of her past successes or newbies being denied Olympic experiences).

Click to expand...

For the sake of discussion based on the criteria here are the pool of candidates who goes if Miki is second.

1.) Japanese champion -- presumely it will be Mao.
2.) Miki or the 3rd place finisher. Mao would be in this pool as the highest GPF finisher but presuming she wins, she would already be chosen for No. 1
3.) Miki/3rd place finisher/Akiko (2nd highest SB scors/World ranking)/Sakato Miyahara (3rd SB score)/Kanako Murakami (3rd WR score). Mao is No. 1 in both WR/SB, so she would qualify under this premise as well.

So in theory, Miki could be left out even finishing second if for example they opt for the 3rd place finisher for No. 2 (which could be Akiko/Kanako/Satoko) and then justify one of those three (Akiko/Sakato/Kanako) based on the WR/SB criteria. Mao qualifies under all three premises no matter what, so her spot is essentially locked even if she doesn't win.

That said, if Miki is pulling off triple-triples and 2A-3T and places second, then I think that's enough of a case to send her

I love Miki and I respect her for accomplishing so much with her limited presentation skills, but like PF said she has had her Olympic moment already and I'd like to see Kanako have a chance to skate on the biggest stage. Furthermoe, Kanako has an outside shot at a medal because she got close to the podium in her last two Worlds appearances. Miki has no momentum going into Sochi so I think her marks will suffer even if she skates well.

who ever skated better at nationals should go period.

JSF has said outright that Miki would have to WIN Nationals to go to Sochi. JSF has criteria for sending skaters to major competitions such as Worlds and Olympics, and it includes results at major competitions like recent GPF, GPs, ISU Championships, and World Standings. Miki hasn't competed at a major competition since 2011 and she is currently 71st on the ISU World Rankings. Miyahara (4th, 2012 JGPF; 7th, 2013 JW) and Murakami (4th, 2013 W) are in the top 24 on the ISU World Rankings.

Miki entered three competitions this fall and finished second in each:
Nebelhorn. Miki won the SP but finished 4th in the FS behind winner Radionova, bronze medalist Ashley Cain, and Veronik Mallet.
Ice Challenge. Miki edged winner Courtney Hicks in the SP but Courtney beat Miki by 16 points in the FS.
Golden Spin. Miki was second to YuNa Kim throughout.

When you look at Miki's career, her successes have come because of her technical skills rather than her artistic flair. She has never been a musical skater. The problem for her as a returning skater is that her technical skills aren't what they used to be. In her last competition, Golden Spin, she attempted two lutzes but was able to fully rotate only the opening lutz. Her second lutz, after the halfway mark, was UR, and her 2a+3t attempt was downgraded. Generally, the second half of her FS suffers because she doesn't have the stamina she had as a younger skater; spins drop from L4 in the first half to L2 at the end and there are more URs. She is also noticeably slow. Some posters were shocked that Miki lost to Courtney Hicks, but it makes sense. Both are skaters known for their technical skills, but in the FS, Miki's flagging stamina was no match for Courtney's superior speed and better jumps.

Murakami is more an artistic than a technical skater, and Miyahara is both artistic and technical. They have an advantage over Miki in that they will get higher PCS scores than Miki even if they are not technically perfect. I suspect the three skaters may be reasonably close in the SP, but Miki is likely to fall behind after the FS.

Miki is 26 and is a two-time Olympian. In 2010, she finished a respectable 5th. I'm not sure why she feels that she deserves a place on the 2014 team, but I can't think of any reason why she is more worthy than skaters who have been training and competing day in and day out for the past two and a half years. Certainly, her lack of stamina is a direct result of her absence from competition during that time, plus the changes to her body due to pregnancy and childbirth and the short duration of her training since the birth of her child.

Finally, Japan is a very conservative country steeped in tradition with very rigid views about decorum. Single mother Ando has raised eyebrows, and it may be that JSF is uncomfortable with this image of a champion figure skater.

chuckm said:

Miki is 26 and is a two-time Olympian. In 2010, she finished a respectable 5th. I'm not sure why she feels that she deserves a place on the 2014 team, but I can't think of any reason why she is more worthy than skaters who have been training and competing day in and day out for the past two and a half years. Certainly, her lack of stamina is a direct result of her absence from competition during that time, plus the changes to her body due to pregnancy and childbirth and the short duration of her training since the birth of her child.

Click to expand...

When did Miki said she "deserved" a place on the Olympic team? Is there an article where you can quote where she feels "entitled" to an Olympic spot? Come on, it's one thing to say that she might not be in physical shape to get a spot, it's a whole other thing to accuse her of entitlement. It's not like Miki just sat around all season waiting for JSF to give the spot to her. She's competed in three Senior Bs, including two that were only two weeks apart. Her schedule was just as busy as those on the GP. And like Rachael back in the U.S., she also went through the regional/sectional system to qualify to compete at Nationals. So I fail to see this entitlement that you seem to think she has.

She has earned the right to try for a spot. And if she's second and manages to show 3-3s -- I fail to see why exactly she doesn't deserve consideration.

chuckm said:

Miki is 26 and is a two-time Olympian. In 2010, she finished a respectable 5th. I'm not sure why she feels that she deserves a place on the 2014 team, but I can't think of any reason why she is more worthy than skaters who have been training and competing day in and day out for the past two and a half years. Certainly, her lack of stamina is a direct result of her absence from competition during that time, plus the changes to her body due to pregnancy and childbirth and the short duration of her training since the birth of her child.

Finally, Japan is a very conservative country steeped in tradition with very rigid views about decorum. Single mother Ando has raised eyebrows, and it may be that JSF is uncomfortable with this image of a champion figure skater.

Click to expand...

Miki never said she deserved to be on the Olympic team.
Actually, the media and people in general, as far as I can tell by reading newspapers, wants Miki to do well whether she makes it or not. Japan isn't as conservative as you think. I bet Miki is more popular now than before giving birth.

PEOPLE may like Ando more now, but maybe not the JSF.

chuckm said:

PEOPLE may like Ando more now, but maybe not the JSF.

Click to expand...

Still not seeing where Miki "thinks she deserves a spot on the 2014 team."

chuckm said:

PEOPLE may like Ando more now, but maybe not the JSF.

Click to expand...

hmm, I don't think so. One of the most powerful person at the JSF is, Seiko Hashimoto, a female. I doubt that she doesn't like Ando just because she gave a birth as a single mother. I am pretty sure if Ando wins over Murakami or Suzuki, she will be on the team. But you know, it will be very tough for Ando to beat one of them at the moment unless one of them fall apart.

ks777 said:

I bet Miki is more popular now than before giving birth.

Click to expand...

I highly doubt that. From 2005-2011 Miki was almost as popular in Japan as Mao (and that is really saying something). She was largely put on the 2006 team, and to a lesser degree the 2010 team (although her grand prix results and World medal had alot to do with it too) despite her low finishes at Nationals due to her marketability, and the pressure from her corporate sponsers to send her. She is a rich women mostly from endorsements, promotional work, photo shoots in Japan. She probably still is popular to a degree, but nowhere near to that extent at this moment. If she were the JSF would probably be bending over backwards to try and get her on the team, rather than making it as difficult as possible, even if justified based on the standards of qualification they have set for themselves (performance of the last 2 years) for Olympics for the last several quadrennials. The fact she is being to win or atleast be 2nd at Nationals to even hope to make the team, shows she is not a big draw who will bring them much extra revenue like she has been in the past.