Did you see how the Japanese fed treated Kozuka, and Oda. What about Nakano in Torino. Mirai would be treated better sure because they don't have a lot of junior prospects. But if the choice was Polina vs Mirai-they'd choose Polina too.
Will Mirai Appeal Decision for Olympic Team?
- Thread starter Snapper
- Start date
Did you see how the Japanese fed treated Kozuka, and Oda. What about Nakano in Torino. Mirai would be treated better sure because they don't have a lot of junior prospects. But if the choice was Polina vs Mirai-they'd choose Polina too.
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- Jan 10, 2014
She was the last Olympic Silver Medalist. That carries a lot of weight. The same could have been applied to Evan too. Are they going to leave the Gold medalist of the last Olympics off the team?
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- Sep 17, 2011
Kim's (5) mistakes were
scratchy Flip <
LSp 0
SpSq L1
3S fall
2A => A
I think Nagasu couldn't have beaten Asada even with the (completely unjustified) downgrades on both 3A-2T combinations if she'd gotten the same score she received for her Olympics FS, but had she replicated that FS she would have likely gotten higher PCS to push her over the edge.
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- Feb 27, 2012
I hope for that, too.
And as people have mentioned, the picking and choosing just makes it so painfully obvious that the USFSA is trying to tell Mirai that her time is over. It's incredibly frustrating and unfair. Mirai did take a long time to sort out her confidence issues etc, but she performed well under a heap of pressure, and has been passed over for both the Olympics AND the Worlds team, according to some vague selection processes that were apparently only partially applied to the ladies' team and were not applied to the choosing of the pairs team, and is left with... a 4CC spot. Excellent move, brilliantly transparent, USFSA :sarcasm:
Sigh...
You know, I was on the "If not Olympics, Nagasu should at least get Worlds" train...but you know, once the emotions died down and I got a clear head on the issue, it makes perfect sense from the perspective of maintaining 3 spots for 2015. Honestly, if you look at it from the perspective of sending our strongest possible team, as much as it sucks for her, Nagasu doesn't fit anywhere into the equation. Gold and Wagner have the rep; Edmunds (in theory, at least) has the difficulty. Nagasu has experience but has been all over the place, even this season. She's so unpredictable and I can understand why the USFS isn't willing to take (another) chance on her. I just wish they'd be more consistent with their decision-making because sometimes it appears that they "play favorites".
You know, I was on the "If not Olympics, Nagasu should at least get Worlds" train...but you know, once the emotions died down and I got a clear head on the issue, it makes perfect sense from the perspective of maintaining 3 spots for 2015. Honestly, if you look at it from the perspective of sending our strongest possible team, as much as it sucks for her, Nagasu doesn't fit anywhere into the equation. Gold and Wagner have the rep; Edmunds (in theory, at least) has the difficulty. Nagasu has experience but has been all over the place, even this season. She's so unpredictable and I can understand why the USFS isn't willing to take (another) chance on her. I just wish they'd be more consistent with their decision-making because sometimes it appears that they "play favorites".
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- Feb 24, 2012
Well folks this thread is over. I think we got lost here and it wasn't clear - Mirai said despite her disappointment she is not filing an appeal and accepts though disagrees with the decision. Now she needs to focus on what's next in her skating career. One wonders after 4ccs and maybe a trip to world's if Wagner wins a medal (I think Gracie would continue no matter what) what will she do. She is 20 but with pro skating not being what it was will she start thinking of a future career?
Let say if Ashley got 2 GP wins and 1 GP silver. Does it change anything?
Say if she got 1 GP win, 2 GP silvers?
0 GP win, 3 GP silvers?
0 GP win, 2 GP silvers, 1 GP bronze?
Now you're going down the slippery slope. Where is the line? I'm surprised with your former profession, your argument is based on some invisible line no one's ever drawn. Good job.
Agree FlattFan. And it should also be noted Wagner's apparent stellar GP record was carefully managed by the USFSA, in that she got SA two years in a row with a weak field hand picked by the US Fed to oppose her. At the 2012 SA, her "top 3" opponent selected by the US FED was Leonova, who was in the midst of a collapse This skating year Wagner again got SA with its specifically selected weak field, and TEB which also had a weak field. Nagasu got NHK and Rostelecom which had, along with SC, much stronger fields than Wagner faced. Nothing wrong with the US Fed protecting their then No. 1, its nice to see the US Fed looking out for at least one of their skaters, but when you consider the opposition Wagner faced, it diminishes the accomplishement.
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- Jan 25, 2013
The reality is, it doesn't matter what she got, so much as what she got in relation to Mirai over the past 2 years, including scores achieved internationally.
Mirai:
2012 Finlandia Trophy: 3rd (163.09)
2012 Cup of China: 4th (163.46)
2012 NHK Trophy: 3rd (176.68)
2013 US Championships: 7th (173.75)
2013 Finlandia Trophy: 4th (164.51)
2013 NHK Trophy: 8th (141.71)
2013 Cup of Russia: 3rd (175.37)
2014 US Championships: 3rd (190.74)
Note that Mirai has never scored over 180 points in the past 2 seasons. Her average scores in multi-national competition this season is 160.53 (168.08 if we include Nationals).
Ashley:
2012 Skate America: 1st (188.37)
2012 TEB: 1st (190.63)
2012 GPF: 2nd (181.93)
2013 US Championships: 1st (188.84)
2013 Worlds: 5th (187.34)
2013 World Team Trophy: 2nd (188.60)
2013 Skate America: 2nd (193.81)
2013 TEB: 1st (194.37)
2013 GPF: 3rd (181.93)
2014 US Championships: 4th (182.74)
Note that Ashley has always scored over 180 points in the past 2 seasons. Her average scores in multi-national competition this season is 190.04 (188.21 if we include Nationals). An average that's 20 points higher than Mirai's -- 30 points difference if we consider solely their GP season.
Anyone comparing the two would say sending Ashley is a no-brainer. Sending Mirai would only be a matter of "fairness" if the rules were that the US top 3 go, no questions asked.
Look at McLaughlin and Brubaker in 2010 vs. Evora & Ladwig and Denney & Barrett
Mc/B won National twice.
Medaled in all 4 GPs.
Medaled in the fall GP.
Dominated the Jr. circuit
Now, look at E/L
0 medal in GP
0 international experience
best was 4th in Nat the year before.
Now, look at D/B
0 medal in GP
2nd the year before at Nat
Mc/B were promoted heavily as the next great pair from the US. Got Coke endorsement and what not. Guess what, they bombed and they stayed home. They went on to win the silver at the 4CC.
Same thing should apply to Ashley. She should stay home. Sorry, not a chance at a medal in sochi, not a chance at anything. Why bother sending this girl when she can't deliver? Why the inconsistency between Ashley and Mc/B
Mc/B won National twice.
Medaled in all 4 GPs.
Medaled in the fall GP.
Dominated the Jr. circuit
Now, look at E/L
0 medal in GP
0 international experience
best was 4th in Nat the year before.
Now, look at D/B
0 medal in GP
2nd the year before at Nat
Mc/B were promoted heavily as the next great pair from the US. Got Coke endorsement and what not. Guess what, they bombed and they stayed home. They went on to win the silver at the 4CC.
Same thing should apply to Ashley. She should stay home. Sorry, not a chance at a medal in sochi, not a chance at anything. Why bother sending this girl when she can't deliver? Why the inconsistency between Ashley and Mc/B
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- Feb 17, 2010
There you go with you and your facts again.
Facts and statistics will never be considered by Mirai fans. Only obsessing over rules that aren't even the rules anymore matter to them.
The problem with this line of reasoning is that the way the GP operates, the only selection over which a host federation has complete control is the HOST PICKS. The top 3 seeds are allowed to name their choices, in order, and these are usually honored, so the hosts don't select those. After the top seeds,a separate draw is held for each category: seeds 4-6, Worlds 7-9, Worlds 10-12, top 24 WR, top 24 SB, etc. In each category, the host that gets first draw has the widest choice; the host that gets draw 6 gets what's left over. If a host always gets first draw, sure, they could cherry pick the best lineup for their skaters, but that is unlikely to happen.
Mirai usually gets invited by NHK, which makes sense, but it isn't always to her advantage since the Japanese ladies are a tough bunch, and the JSF usually uses the host pick for their seeds. USFS has no control whatsoever over invitations to Mirai or Ashley from other hosts.
There you go with you and your facts again.
What's the fact?
Your argument is slippery at best. There is no clear guideline, if you win at the GP, or whatever. None.
So if you just compare body of work, then Mc/B should have gone.
It is a shame to see a former lawyer using this kind of argument. Unreal.
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- Feb 17, 2010
And you are completely ignoring that fact that it is crystal clear Ashley's body of work is superior to Mirai under the factors considered. You have not once countered that convincingly at all.
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
Actually there were clear guidelines, set out years ago, that the 2014 Olympic team would be determined by a number of events, not just Nationals.
Like the Japanese, they have a number of criteria as a failsafe if a really strong, reliable skater, happens to bomb at Nationals as what happened with Wagner.
The FACTS are the numbers I provided which showed that Ashley has on the GP season scored an average of 30 points higher than Mirai, and even if we consider US nationals it's still an average of 20 points higher than Mirai.
Mirai beating Ashley once shouldn't negate the fact that none of Mirai's scores this season cleared 180, whereas all of Ashley's did. Consider that this season, Ashley's GP events were both higher than 190 points, and Mirai's were 142 and 175. Those are facts. As pangtongfan pointed out, it's vastly different from the pairs situation in 2010.
You completely ignoring that McL/B's body of work is superior to the two teams that went to the Olympics.
What the hell are you on about?
During 2010 Olympics, they had the same guideline.
During the broadcast, and right at the conclusion of the Pairs LP, either Scott or Mark wondered if McL/B would be put on the team for their body of work being much stronger than E/L. Sandra, this hypocrite, said, and I quote, "I'm old school, top 2 go"
Same situation here. Mirai should go.
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- Jun 16, 2010
Like I already said Denney & Barret were the top U.S finishers at Worlds (9th vs only 11th for McL/B), and Inoue & Baldwin had the exact same grand prix results as them that season (a 3rd and 4th). So even heavily factoring in recent results and only a bit of Nationals (vs the 80% of what determines the team Nationals in reality is, but even that isnt enough to justify sending Nagasu over Wagner), they still would missed out on their 5th place at Nationals in favor of winners Denney & Barret, the top U.S finishers at the 2013 Worlds, and 3rd place finishers Inoue & Baldwin, who had the same grand prix results and points as McL/B that season. At best they would have been the alternates over Evora & Ladwig in that case.
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The policy used for Ashley didn't exist then. And with an 11th place finish at Worlds they were no where near medal contenders.
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- Jan 25, 2013
The opinion of the federation based on the criteria they've set out is what matters. We all agree that it's unfair to Mirai or M/B, but based on their own rulings, the skaters sent to the Olympics are who the federation best believes fit their criteria.
M/B not going to Vancouver was a bit of a jip, but they had 4 teams ahead of them for 2 spots (versus Ashley having 3 ladies ahead of hear for 3 spots). Much more of a stretch to send M/B. If I/B weren't going over E/L, M/B sure as hell weren't. And again, comparing M/B's accolades to Ashley's the past two seasons, Ashley has been far more valuable/productive/whatever you want to call it.
Anyways, this is getting into a long-winded fest. Mirai can't do anything about Sochi, and should focus on 4CC. Perhaps with a good performance there, the fed might change their mind about not sending her to Worlds.
