Will Mirai Appeal Decision for Olympic Team?

I appreciate how many are trying to come up with reasons for the appeal (or against it). As I wrote before, at law or fro that matter almost anything you can appeal/complain - whether it does any good is another issue. And in some cases your chance for appeal is far greater and that is a sitaution where clearly there has been a breach of somehting by the deciding person or persons. However, in the case at bar, we have several problems. First, prima facie we have rules that allow the olympci committee to lok at other facgtors besides nationals for selecting a skater to go to Sochi. It may not have clear direction as to weighing of such factors but that allows them a lot of leeway. now Mirai could attack this saying due to lack of clarity of rules her appeal should be accepted but then Polina or Ashley could appeal and argue the same thing and thus Mirai's reinstatement should be cancelled and it is a nasty vicioius circle. At law, the trier of fact or the judge decides things such as crediblity and what are the facts for a case based on what he or she believes or finds. At law, well you can appeal it but it has to be an error at law not because the judge accepted someone or some evidence. It would have to be extremely perverse to have something overturned based upon the decision of a judge of finding of fact ie. the judge says he or she believe the accused in a crimnial case even though he admitted in a statement to police that was admissible he was blacking out due to drugs, alcohol, lack of sleep and that he his schizo bi polar and was having seizures on the date of the offence and he admits he lies and he can't even remember anything really etc. So at best we have an error in respect to having unclear rules or guidelines that doesn't necessarily mean Mirai gets to go to the olympics and the practical side is this. With such a nasty appeal it destroys the American team other than maybe Gracie who is pretty safe. Ashley and Polina practice wondering if they really are going, Mirai practice in hope for a change of ruling so three competitiors aren't really able to give it their all plus not sleeping and stressed out are they going or not. Then no matter what htere is the morale issue and the effect on the team competition. And the odds are there would not be a lot of time to deal with an appeal if it goes through the court probably the best scenario for Mirai would be for a civil judgement but after the olympics are over and then while mone is nice it is too late. The bad will may not be what the UsS team or Mirai want. I appreciate she feels wronged as do many. But while everyone is happy face to the media do you really think they are that happy??? This just might help skaters like Murikami and Osmond from Canada surpass 2/3 americans. At best they might relook at the rules and eventually set more clear weighing of skating competitions. At the end of this imagine how awkward it would be onthis team - mind you it mainly is a individual focussed event.

CanadianSkaterGuy said:

As nice as it is to see Mirai fight for her position, she really should have been doing that the past two years. The criteria was out in 2012 so all athletes should have been aware that they need to make every result count in the years leading up to Sochi.

She could stand to appeal if those rules weren't in place and the USFS was reneging on their own rules, but the reality is they are not, so Mirai really doesn't have much of a case.

Yep, you hit right on the head CanadianSkaterGuy.
She practically said herself "at least I have Olympic experience going for me"... she knows her results until Nationals have been relatively poor... Certainly compared to Wagner.

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Yep you hit it right on the head CSG. The rules are there to look at other things though it may not be clear as to weighing that really sinks Mirai. I feel bad for Mirai still. Immagine it is the freeskate at the olympics and Mirai watches as she busses a table at her parent's restaurant. Worse if Wagner wins a medal and gains tonnes of endorsements. Oh the pain and agony

bekalc said:

Of course the USFSA doesn't know what will happen with Polina. But I think this point they feel why not give her some opportunities and see. I mean Mirai has had basically five years to reach the top level of this sport and hasn't done so. She hasn't improved and frankly digressed. Now they are watching young Russians come up with huge jumps, and already bypass Mirai. And the US federation is thinking about the long term future. Mirai can't jump with them, but Polina can, so why not get her out there.

Of course they don't know how Polina will react but they figure what do we have to lose by giving her some opportunities and investing in her. If Polina doesn't improve, they will move on to someone else.

I don't think they are thinking either Polina or Mirai is going to really win a medal and at least Polina has the jumps. And they probably figure the best the young Russians will get is bronze. But why the heck do they want the young Russians to get more exposure than their young talent.

The message they are sending, bring the jumps, bring it we will consider you.

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If picking who is best for the future is the criteria they should say that. Doing it on that basis is very tricky because more often than not the jumpers lose their jumps once their body changes. Whose to say that Polina will be jumping the way she does once she fills out to a women's body?

The criteria right now is past body of work. On that basis, I can see taking Ashley. I don't see how past work explains taking Polina. Of course USFS put her in that position bc she should have been sent to junior worlds last year and competed in the Senior Circuit this year just as the Russian girls did. We would have seen how she did competing on the senior level internationally and whether she gets those high PCS marks at the intl level. USFS's mess up in not sending her out earlier to senior events was a travesty for both Mirai and for Polina, for Mirai because her competitor was judged under different standards as she did well at junior events making Mirai's lesser placements at senior events look not as impressive; and for Polina bc she has no intl senior rep points which could impact her personal desires for a desired placement in Sochi. She got no feedback on her senior program (except for inflated nationals) which is not fair to her.

brightphoton said:

I feel like they should send Mirai, because to send 3 white girls and passing over an Asian girl looks really really really racist. Considering figure skating's past, it's a reasonable argument.

And don't give me the "but but but what about Michelle Kwa-a-a-a-an?????" Sure, they loved the Kween. Though all else being equal, don't you think that the powers that be prefer a Michelle Kerr over a Michelle Kwan?

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good luck with the race card I don't think that will work and even if it did it would be a human rights violation and those would take for every to fix well after Sochi was a memory.

I don't think Mirai's going to appeal anymore -- a couple of articles have popped up with new quotes (from Sunday night):



http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...su-disappointment-olympic-team-sochi/4448105/

"I'm disappointed in the decision," Nagasu said in a statement through U.S. Figure Skating. "Though I may not agree with it, I have to respect the decision the federation made."

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https://twitter.com/olyphil/status/422553540607754241

More MIrai statement: "And I’m grateful to everyone who has supported me and look forward to what comes next in my skating career.”

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Skater Boy said:

good luck with the race card I don't think that will work and even if it did it would be a human rights violation and those would take for every to fix well after Sochi was a memory.

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I'm not saying it should be Nagasu v. USFSA at the Hague. I'm saying the selection committee should try their best to not look like a bunch of old white ladies protecting their own, because that's what it looks like.

You can argue that it's maybe not that way in reality. But it looks that way.

drivingmissdaisy said:

It's frustrating to read some of you saying "Nationals placements don't matter" or "the committee is going to do whatever they want." Coming in to the event, we knew two spots were set although it wasn't "official": D&W and Ashley. Ashley didn't medal, but her spot was set, so there were two spots up for grabs.

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And how do you know Ashley's spot was "set". Was an announcement made? While many speculated she might get favors from the judges, as she did last year,I haven't seen any criteria published that she was guaranteed a spot.

Mathman said:

To whom would Mirai's lawyer present this appeal? The United States Olympic Committee? The International Court of Appeal for Sport? Mrs. St. Peter?

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If there are published appeal rights, she would need to follow them. Upon being turned down, she would file for an injunction in Federal District Court, where she would probably lose, and spend some bucks she doesn't have in the process.

:scratch: how exactly is this an example of racism, brightphoton?

invisiblespiral said:

:scratch: how exactly is this an example of racism, brightphoton?

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1. White girl
2. White girl
3. Non-white girl
4. White girl

Who does the selection committee choose?
1. White girl
2. White girl
4. White girl

Sure looks odd.

edit: just found out that this was also the decision for the World team as well.

Layfan said:

I read that Mirai was in tears before her exhibition and that she received a standing ovation. Does anyone have a link? Or was anyone there who saw it?

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Yes, I was quite far away, but from the big TV scoreboard she appeared to be in tears, and she did get an ovation from a lot of the fans, certainly from me.

brightphoton said:

1. White girl
2. White girl
3. Non-white girl
4. White girl

Who does the selection committee choose?
1. White girl
2. White girl
4. White girl

Sure looks odd.

edit: just found out that this was also the decision for the World team as well.

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They easily could have denied a place to Zhang & Bartholomay and to the Shibs as well (there was a case to be made that another team could have been sent, especially in pairs) in favour of white athletes but they didn't. I really don't think race had anything to do with anything here and I fail to see any evidence that it did.

I fully support her filing an appeal -- it is not going to get her a spot on the team but if I were her I would not take it lying down. There needed to be more accountability than just USFSF announcing their decision and not giving specific details on how they reached it. There needs to be rule changes in the future so it doesn't come across as so subjective. I guess the argument against filing an appeal is USFSF showed just how authoritative they are and there could be repercussions against her for appealing, but I think she should anyway. This was her last chance at the olympics and something good -- some kind of a rule change -- needs to come out of this so nobody else ever gets put in this position.

I feel for her; i expected her to be the next Michelle Kwan or Cohen at least. But as someone intimated Mirai who I am sure always was trying didn't help herself by not skating well for about 3.5 years and with the criteria being what it is, even if argued somewhat unclear as to the weight or waying, did not really help herself. Its not like she destroyed AShley at Nats or the entire field. I still fear under different scrutiny some of her jumps would be downgraded. clearly this is upsetting to her. I don't think hiring a lawyer is the answer - she should save the money and do something nice for herself. However, ironically her crying in pain obviously over not going to olympics and the appeal might gather her enough sympathy to be put on the world team and get some endorsements or somekind hearted souls to give her freebies and stuff - sorry that sounds horrible but when injustices are done humanity sets in and people often open up their hearts and wallets.

It appears the Ashley-haters have been waiting for a moment like this, so they can come out of the woodwork and show their true colors. All I can say is, I'm glad I have better things to do with my life than be hateful and tear others down. Imo, the problem here is the USFSA's lack of transparency, not any of the skaters.

Don't follow pairs or ice dance. I don't even know why you're bring it up. They're a totally different discipline and have no bearing on the ladies' selection process. Might as well talk about the alpine skiing team.

Like I said before, you can make an argument that the USFSA is really not racist at all and they're totally objective and would love to have a diverse, multi-cultural team. You can make that argument in front of a picture of Gold, Edmunds, Wagner v. Nagasu.

Nobody in this thread is trying to dispute Ashley's accomplishments, prior to Nationals.

brightphoton said:

I feel like they should send Mirai, because to send 3 white girls and passing over an Asian girl looks really really really racist. Considering figure skating's past, it's a reasonable argument.

And don't give me the "but but but what about Michelle Kwa-a-a-a-an?????" Sure, they loved the Kween. Though all else being equal, don't you think that the powers that be prefer a Michelle Kerr over a Michelle Kwan?

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My recollection may be fading but didn't they originally give Michelle a spot and she was much like Ashley in 2006. She no longer was a world medallist and fading somewhat I know she was injured but still. I don't think this is about race. I think if Zhang skated well with the grace she had they wold send her (minus the mule kick and ladning the 3Loop 3 loop etc But the problem or challenge was Ashley placed 4th and had a lot of good "points" on the rest of the considerations andit was enough to over take Mirai. I feel for her but I the "criteria" or "marking system for olympics" kind of made it clear that Ashley would go over Mirai. One event was not enough for Mirai to overtake the lead Ashley had and it had nothing to do with race.

a_reader said:

It appears the Ashley-haters have been waiting for a moment like this, so they can come out of the woodwork and show their true colors. All I can say is, I'm glad I have better things to do with my life than be hateful and tear others down. Imo, the problem here is the USFSA's lack of transparency, not any of the skaters.

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I agree about transparency but like I pointed out what really is going on in the mind of the judge or people deciding the oly team based on the riterai can be covered by mere words to rationalize what they do. something could be race but then one can argue ie. Mirai really ur a lot or her program was empty etc. And if they see it like that and it isn't obvioius it is the most detailed performance well then it wold appear legitimate.

Skater Boy said:

I agree about transparency but like I pointed out what really is going on in the mind of the judge or people deciding the oly team based on the riterai can be covered by mere words to rationalize what they do. something could be race but then one can argue ie. Mirai really ur a lot or her program was empty etc. And if they see it like that and it isn't obvioius it is the most detailed performance well then it wold appear legitimate.

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I see your points. but Ashley is no sure bet, either, given international competition such as Yuna, Mao ....