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You mean C&B, right?
Chock and Bates push forward
- Thread starter gsk8
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You mean C&B, right?
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Yes. The Shibs are about the same live and on Tv-maybe a little better on TV.
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I haven't seen them live, but you could see that from tv also. I believe that C&B are much better live. Although I don't think they lack in performance whether you see them live or in tv.
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I had liked them for a while but really became a fan last year when I saw them live in Boston. This year, their FD in Greensboro truly did not disappoint-it was better than Boston!
I think SkateSkates nails it with the Shibs that they have a "controlled look" to their skating. The waltz needs precision with lots of freedom and flair. The Shibs have the precision down , now they need to let lose! I am trying hard to appreciate Chock and Bates. They're excellent skaters with a level of maturity and know-how. I just find myself wandering off with their performance; I am not engaged. Hawayek and Baker on the other hand had me spell bound! They have the perfect match of athleticism and magical performance. I have watched that FD 10 times since the US Nationals!
:agree: Like you, I'm not Cho/Ba's fan, but I admit Madison Chock is one heck of a performer. She seems like she could sell anything. Maybe not the strongest technical skater, but I think she makes her team shine.
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ITA. I think of a Strauss waltz as big, sweeping movements, like this NYCB piece. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7WC9W3Jhsc&feature=player_detailpage#t=471
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Regarding C/B: I have been trying to watch videos to try to like them since people whose judgment on here that I really trust like them. I think I am going to have to find some money to be able to see them live someday because apparently that makes a big difference in how people view them as a team. Maybe Madison's personality disappearance is simply a TV problem, though others do read on TV like Shibs and H/B. Boy C/B fans should not go down the rabbit hole that is the nasty blog about Scott Moir. That blogger and most of her fans think Madison just stands still and gets dragged around by Evan. I may not think Madison is the best, but I do think she has a skill set and she can hold her own with the women in the top 10 teams right now which we have seen in the past couple of seasons. I would like to see them do a program that shows more connection to Evan but that might just be me.
Regarding the Shib Sibs: I love Blue Danube Waltz, it is one of my favorite pieces and I like the effervescence that they have in the program. Reminds me of champagne bubbles. I do think that they are handicapped by the fact that as siblings, people and judges don't want to see them play romantic leads which really limits what Marina can do with them. Michael Jackson is not going to cut it. Blue Danube Waltz is beautiful but it feels a bit safe. It isn't fair to them that we want them to avoid meatier programs. It is our problem that once the music starts, we can't just get into the characters they want to portray. Platonic and In-love teams don't kiss or make love on the ice, and they can get into character to play lovers, siblings, antagonists, etc. Once the music starts we should see Tris and Four, or Romeo and Juliet, or whatever characters they are--not Maya and Alex the Shib Sibs. I want to see them take the bull by the horns and take nationals and make those judges respect them. Hopefully they can stay with Marina because I love her programs, but they might have to change coaches. I hope they don't have to change teams but they might have to if people/judges can't get over them being siblings.
Regarding H/D: They lacked a little personality for me as well. They are just meh for me. I wanted to like them more. This may be another team I have to see live. I do think that Angelika Krylova needs to not play it so safe with this team.
Regarding H/B: I think that this might be the best team we have. The judges are making them "pay their dues" right now which is why I think they don't score better. I have a feeling that they are going to blow way past these teams in a year or two.
Regarding the Shib Sibs: I love Blue Danube Waltz, it is one of my favorite pieces and I like the effervescence that they have in the program. Reminds me of champagne bubbles. I do think that they are handicapped by the fact that as siblings, people and judges don't want to see them play romantic leads which really limits what Marina can do with them. Michael Jackson is not going to cut it. Blue Danube Waltz is beautiful but it feels a bit safe. It isn't fair to them that we want them to avoid meatier programs. It is our problem that once the music starts, we can't just get into the characters they want to portray. Platonic and In-love teams don't kiss or make love on the ice, and they can get into character to play lovers, siblings, antagonists, etc. Once the music starts we should see Tris and Four, or Romeo and Juliet, or whatever characters they are--not Maya and Alex the Shib Sibs. I want to see them take the bull by the horns and take nationals and make those judges respect them. Hopefully they can stay with Marina because I love her programs, but they might have to change coaches. I hope they don't have to change teams but they might have to if people/judges can't get over them being siblings.
Regarding H/D: They lacked a little personality for me as well. They are just meh for me. I wanted to like them more. This may be another team I have to see live. I do think that Angelika Krylova needs to not play it so safe with this team.
Regarding H/B: I think that this might be the best team we have. The judges are making them "pay their dues" right now which is why I think they don't score better. I have a feeling that they are going to blow way past these teams in a year or two.
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Coltrocks12 said:
Then clearly Maddy rocks, because that crew used to say the exact same stuff about Meryl.
Step sequences turned into crossover sequences (Ice Dance)
We all know ice dance rules says they want ''mastery on one foot skating'', ''minimal use of cross cuts and running'' ''one move flows seamlessly into the next''. But this year there was a bug on rules and coaches mercilessly uses to their advantage. I first noticed at Grand Prix Final fom watching Chock/Bates. Then at European Championships I noticed Papadakis/Cizeron and Capellini/Lanotte also changed their side by side step sequences in short dance. Now they are using more two foot skating between turns. I cannot blame them because all grand prix season Chock/Bates got very high levels, very high grade of execution and very high program component scores for their ''maximum use of crossover'' steps.
Chock/Bates's steps in Grand Prix Final:
http://youtu.be/-2g6IMnLd8o?t=2m54s
Thanks to sisinka who explained difficult turns.
I watched old short dance videos of Chock/Bates. They used much ''two foot skating'' between turns but they never used this much crossovers. They usually tried to link two difficult turn. This year they let go all of this and only linked one foot section turns (because it is necessary). Next year I'm sure other dance teams will follow them. If dance rules will stay as this, I'm sure in couple of years single skaters will pass dancers on blade work. Single skaters already shows more difficulty. Think Chock as a single skater who showed that steps on her short program.
In ice dance you can get away with that.
We all know ice dance rules says they want ''mastery on one foot skating'', ''minimal use of cross cuts and running'' ''one move flows seamlessly into the next''. But this year there was a bug on rules and coaches mercilessly uses to their advantage. I first noticed at Grand Prix Final fom watching Chock/Bates. Then at European Championships I noticed Papadakis/Cizeron and Capellini/Lanotte also changed their side by side step sequences in short dance. Now they are using more two foot skating between turns. I cannot blame them because all grand prix season Chock/Bates got very high levels, very high grade of execution and very high program component scores for their ''maximum use of crossover'' steps.
Chock/Bates's steps in Grand Prix Final:
http://youtu.be/-2g6IMnLd8o?t=2m54s
Thanks to sisinka who explained difficult turns.
I watched old short dance videos of Chock/Bates. They used much ''two foot skating'' between turns but they never used this much crossovers. They usually tried to link two difficult turn. This year they let go all of this and only linked one foot section turns (because it is necessary). Next year I'm sure other dance teams will follow them. If dance rules will stay as this, I'm sure in couple of years single skaters will pass dancers on blade work. Single skaters already shows more difficulty. Think Chock as a single skater who showed that steps on her short program.
In ice dance you can get away with that.
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I'm glad you point that out, I don't like it either. Maybe they'll update the rules again next year (they could limit the number of cross overs within the step sequence). As this cannot affect the level or GOE I think it should definitly affect the PCS right now, it's really distracting.
Chock/Bates's FD step:
http://youtu.be/awXbGEWDqNQ?t=1m54s
It was same for steps sequences in holds. One small crossover from Evan, then another from Chock, then together big crossovers, then running, another crossover from Evan, big crossovers before one foot section.... Actually it is not best way to use ''unlimited crossover'' rule. You should watch my favorite team Papadakis/Cizeron.
It is smartest way of using crossovers. Look Cizeron while Papadakis does her one foot section between 1.44 and 1.56. He uses crossovers, two foot moves so they will not lose speed. Papadakis doesn't need to get or keep speed at all. She just had to lean right edge. It is much more effective and looks better than pitiful crossovers of C/B.
More and more dance teams can put crossovers between every difficult turn next year. More and more teams can do seperate one foot section while one partner does turns, other one can do just crossovers, then they can switch; other one will do turns while partners use crossovers for speed. Looks like new ''unlimited crossover'' rule allows that.
http://youtu.be/awXbGEWDqNQ?t=1m54s
It was same for steps sequences in holds. One small crossover from Evan, then another from Chock, then together big crossovers, then running, another crossover from Evan, big crossovers before one foot section.... Actually it is not best way to use ''unlimited crossover'' rule. You should watch my favorite team Papadakis/Cizeron.
It is smartest way of using crossovers. Look Cizeron while Papadakis does her one foot section between 1.44 and 1.56. He uses crossovers, two foot moves so they will not lose speed. Papadakis doesn't need to get or keep speed at all. She just had to lean right edge. It is much more effective and looks better than pitiful crossovers of C/B. More and more dance teams can put crossovers between every difficult turn next year. More and more teams can do seperate one foot section while one partner does turns, other one can do just crossovers, then they can switch; other one will do turns while partners use crossovers for speed. Looks like new ''unlimited crossover'' rule allows that.
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- May 18, 2014
Then clearly Maddy rocks, because that crew used to say the exact same stuff about Meryl.
Good point Doris. It was fun watching them implode after the Olympics. I love Meryl and Charlie and I think part of my withdrawal a bit from Ice Dance is because nobody in the world is at the D/W and V/M level right now.
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Yes, the ice dance world does seem a little bit sad and empty without those two great teams.
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- Jan 12, 2004
The birds only pick at the best fruit.
And the biggest nuts make the most noise in the can.
That blogger and her fellow conspirators are not living on Planet Earth.
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