What is Eteri's secret?

Evgenia has been training with Eteri for many years and results are visible. She is an excellent skater despite her problems with lutz and she is very strong mentally which is crucial for high level athletes.
Sherbakova who is named by many as the most "complete" Eteri's student has also been in her group for years.
Alina joined in 2015 but before that she had neither results nor technique. I remember from interview that Alina claimed she had had no triples when she joined Eteri.
Tarakanova is the newest addiction in the group and I can see already some results but there are still things to be improved (like jumps, she is powerful jumper but she isn't particularly tight in the air which costs GOE).

Eteri's and Dudakov's students are in really competitive group. They probably try to beat each other everyday and learn from each other. Also I guess there is no mercy - you don't give 100% of yourself? You're out. It doesn't work for everybody. And I doubt that Julia's and Adian's experiences will scare people out as there still are skaters willing to join her group.

It looks like it is a combination of people, things, events.

Most of the students are already very talented, best in their regions/cities with a big sense of motivation for competing at high level.

I don’t know much about figure skating technically, just love to watch, but I think/guess the entire coaching team is good not only Eteri. Dudakov looks like a good trainer as well. From this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydnGujFmRSM video one can see that he is good with the kids and with good feeling of music https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNO3ESX9FjU . Gleyhengauz the same.

The choreography( that may be a limitation, but not in the small ages) is done by the coaching team. They are present all the time during the training so they can change/fix/adapt things on the go. The choreography modern/classic classes are in the same facility. The general mentality of sambo-70 school (mostly known for martial art/wrestling rather than figure skating) and the advantage that it gives to study there and focus on your sport.

Hi concentration of talent in a small, competitive group with an old school (Soviet era may be) professional approach to trainings, that’s the feeling that I get from Eteri.

Well the entire team is wonderful. Eteri had a lot of setbacks in her career and thus she is a demanding coach who wants the best for students. Sergei and Daniil are also very talented and I think that they are sort of a calming influence in Eteri's intensity. However, I think they all click well with the kids, and they all look up to her and want her to be proud of them. I think it goes both ways though, and I think Eteri wants them to be proud of her...
She also takes the girls when they're relatively good I think. It does help when her group has a reputation. There's pictures of Zhenya in her group nearly 10 years ago, so she taught her a while. And while she didn't do that for others, like Zagi or Sasha or Nastya, she has infinitely helped their technique. Contrary to other beliefs, I think all of them have stellar technique. And I think that that amazing technique helps them be so consistent. It's also important to note that this is what they do most of the day, unlike in other countries, so they have more training time and off-ice / cross-training time and resources (within the Sambo 70 school). Of course, the healthy competition among them is also a key part.

Just my 2 cents

apgold said:

I'd like to see how Eteri's approach works in the long term - say to the next Olympic cycle. Most of her top skaters (Trusova, etc.) are juniors or juniors turning senior. Medvedeva seems to be an example of a longer lasting success (jr World champ and 2 consecutive World senior titles) and now has Zagitova nipping at her skates so we'll see how that goes.

We all know what happened to Lipnitskaia, unfortunately. Hoping that she is the exception, not the rule. (Not blaming Eteri for her issues, but she's an example of a star who burned out and is now retired.

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There's criticism between the lines. But it is the same as with the argument that Russian girls can last only until the puberty. It was quite popular 2 years ago - sonograms and stuff. And the answer to that is simple: there was no Russian ladies skating between Irina and Tuktamysheva/Sotnikova. Then the flow of wonderbabies appeared. Of course, they were were young. Of course, a lot of them won't survive the puberty. But the strength is in numbers. If just a third of them survive and come strong - it will be a feat. My problem with those critics is that the people have already decided that no one will be successfful. And Medvedeva has already proved that they were wrong - I hope she will put a very thick red cross on the sonogram and girl des jours theories winning everything for the third season in a row. And many others (not all, of course) will follow.

tjb said:

and shcherbakova, who is the most talented student, i believe, was build by eteri from the ground as well. she started skating at 6 and doesn't even had her doubles, when she joined eteri.

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Anna Shcherbakova started skating at 3.5, joined Eteri group during 2014/15 season, when she was 10 and had had her doubles for a long time already.
Her first coaches were Oksana Bulycheva and Yulia Krasinska.

Eteri doesn't train smallest kids anymore (P. Shelepen) - Evgenia joined her at 8yo, newest addition to the group Sofia Akatieva joined this year at 9.

sarama said:

What I find disturbing is that she works with very young people, who probably can't even realise what is happening to them, until it's too late.

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I was just 5 when I went to a figure skating school. I was a nice and soft boy. And it was big revelation to me. My coach (she was quite known some time ago) practised Stalin like methods. Again, I was 5. But I survived. Until 10. Children are not that fragile after all.

sarama said:

I agree that she puts her skaters in a "swim or sink" situation. Is it right? Is it wrong? Where is the limit? I don't know. What I find disturbing is that she works with very young people, who probably can't even realise what is happening to them, until it's too late. I wouldn't have appreciated being in her camp, but I never wanted to be an Olympic champion, or even to win a JGP medal.
I am curious to see if the experiences of Julia, Adian and many more will eventually scare her students and their parents off. One thing is for sure now the mental prep of her skaters is unbelievable!

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Oh come on, there is being critical of someone, and there is making it sound like someone was an evil maniac laughing child predator, and the latter is most definitely nonsense. Eteri is a very no-nonsense person from the looks, which is actually something some people appreciate (I know I do). That doesn't mean her kids will come out traumatized, it will work for some and not for others, just like with most training situations - and therefor skaters can stay with her or not. Just like with every other coach.

And why would anyone be scared away from Eteri because of Yulia and Adian? I feel very sorry for both and wished it could have gone down differently, but there are sadly a lot of cases of young skaters having to quit due to injury or at least being affected very heavily by it. Remember Sota Yamamoto, who has been MIA since what feels like 3 decades now? Should skaters run from his coach Nagakubo as well? How Akiko Suzuki talked about her problems with eating disorders? Hasn't Gracie just spoken up about how difficult that topic is too? No good coaches anywhere I tell ya.

I agree with many of the statements about sink or swim -- after all, if you have a pool of the most talented skaters you are essentially getting the cream of the cream of the crop.

However, I also attribute her success to truly understanding how to maximize the system and all that it awards. She trains her students to backload, to tano, to add levels. And she trains them to cover up weaknesses and emphasize strengths.

She creates a standard that is unmatched -- like, you have to be able to do the hardest elements, and then be able to make these elements even harder with entry/exit transitions, and arm positions. I don't see her as pushing for strong jumps that are super high and fast -- but she does push for difficult jumps knowing that a weak jumper hitting the GOE bullets can still hang with strong jumpers who aren't taking the time or effort to add features that can increase the grade of execution. And I'm sure she knows what counts for sufficient rotation and drills her students until they get it -- again, knowing that URs that destroy your base score. In Canada, if you have a 3T+3T you're lauded as one of the most talented, and I'm sure in her camp, that's simply the price of admission.

Survival of the fittest, sink or swim, etc. If you're weak, you leave. It's the same system Soviet pairs skaters had, and in other Soviet sports during the Cold War era, now being applied to ladies in this one coach's rink. Eteri uses the state-funded system to its maximum potential, whereas other top Russian coaches have, at least in the past few decades, tended more towards smaller camps with more individualized treatment (thinking now of Moskvina and Mishin).

This, in combination with Eteri's maximization of the system as CanadianSkaterGuy already described above, makes it happen. You can be a points genius all you want, but if you're coaching in the US or Canada, you won't have the dozens of children whose families can afford it (and who you as a coach can afford to turn away if they sink instead of swim) with grit + talent to fill your rink.

Eteri's system doesn't work with men because men take more time to cultivate, and Eteri just flat-out doesn't have patience for it. Girls mentally mature faster. For whatever reason (it would be interesting if someone can explain why), younger-than-senior boys are just plain not capable of hitting level 4s on their steps and spins, whereas for girls it is necessary to win, as well as to make it in Eteri's camp. Junior men look awkward and sloppy, but junior girls are tiny and fast and confident - they hit those levels, even if they look sloppy or awkward doing it.

I think if Eteri had more patience she could make her system work for boys.

andromache said:

I think if Eteri had more patience she could make her system work for boys.

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she admitted in few interviews that she just doesn't like coaching boys, not her cup of tea, etc

angelicaamatina said:

Eteri is a very controversial coach but you can't deny she gets results. Almost all her ladies are unbelievably consistent. Her skaters are ruling Juniors and the two time world champ and world record holder also happens to be her student. Many fans argue that although she gets results, her skaters have bad technique. I can agree with this to an extent but her most recent stars have stellar technique(Alina Zagitova, Alexandra Trusova, Anastasia Tarakanova). I created this thread to disscuss the following questions: What does Eteri do to create such mentally tough skaters? Why haven't other coaches figured out how to do this? What makes her training program so special? What is the secret? I realize we probably will never know what her secret really is but I figured we could discuss theories.

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To generalize, it's a matter of practice, but of course there is more behind:

The willingness to accept that everything is improvable -> a lot of coaches thinks that the pick has always been reached, so you see a skater with its jump, spins,... and the year after you see the newer one from the same group who is not even attempting to be a better skater than the older one. Instead if you try to achieve new goals everytime, the sky is the limit... after watching all their girls these years between seniors and juniors we can realize that the backloading programs has been a step-by-step process. At first it was very difficult for the skater but now they are used to it, and the newer one won't even care of the difficulty; but even on small things like the transitions: the "new" 13 years old girls are doing arabesques or cantilevers going into triples jumps like nobody's business.

The attention to details -> most of the haters say that their skaters are jumping machines, but it's not true at all: you don't achieve that level of confidence if your focus is only on jumps. For example there is a reason why Eteri's skater are always getting level 4 on the spins while you see Rukavicin's skaters often struggling with spins. They are working to maximize each element, even the components. Of course it's not easy doing everything perfectly but they are trying while again other coaches think that there are only PCS skaters or TES skaters, so they won't even bother to work on the other part too much. (even today so many times we see "the artistic skater" not even interested on attempting difficult jumps or combinations)

Their behaviour -> part of why their skaters are so tough mentally i believe is the way she treats them. Don't praise or criticize too much: at Worlds 2016 i was impressed how Evgenia and Eteri didn't care too much about the world record, and that's the mentality of the champion, never feel like you've arrived.

Also the in-house choreographies have some advantages: you can modify the program whenever you want, also as David Wilson said at TSL, it's important to build a relationship between the skater and the choreographer to understand his/her tastes,to find the right approach, to learn strenghts and weaknesses... I think this is also part of Orser's success: having Tracy Wilson in the team, and David or Lori in the same city without travelling across the world and changing choreographers... you save time.

I'd say though that their formula works in ladies but not so much in men figure skating, and they aren't the solution for each skater, but this is the same as any other coach.

If we knew, it wouldn't be a secret. She is fortunate to have a lot of talented skaters who come to her. It's no secret that success breeds success.

Also, in case no one has mentioned it already:

Eteri must have one heck of a staff. You don't manage to coach that many students THAT well all on your own.

if I could add my tiny two cents...

Seeing this 'Eteri success secret' thing from my perspective (not very focused on Ladies skating), I see it as a no secret really, more of disciplined, rigorous work put in her skaters by a lot of people and by skaters themselves. The woman - taking her as she is - is her best advert by her opinions, work approach, she's very blunt and 'come-as-you-are' with her work methodics and honestly does not look like she's taking stuff from anyone. At the same time, she obviously believes in her approach and how it works for skaters, not looking back really at those who did not succeed. Regardless of our symphaties or not - she's grown her skin quite thick and unpenetrable for people's opinions and I think that's one of her major attributes.Moreover - by such tough mentality regarding critique/objections flown from people, she sets some kind of 'tough mentality' example for her students, liking it or not.

For me actually, she's a face, a front-woman of the whole school, but there is an army of people involved to run things smoothly with a large number of skaters, each promising, talented, young and demanding attention from various angles. I do think that a part of that supposed 'secret' is composed by hard work of those people, liking students' programs/presentation or not. They are all involved in gearing those skaters up, not only by making choreographies, organizing camps/trainings etc., but also through travelling with them, being for them in their debut competitons etc., assisting with this more organizational/adaptive stuff which I consider as equally important as technicalities, especially for such young people.

Then goes competitiveness - it could be taken as harsh, but the truth is that now for Ladies in Tutberidze group there's no room for staying behind on the road to success, especially this Medvedeva's caliber of which probably all those girls are dreaming. Aside of talent, abilities and hard work they have to prove their readiness and willingness to improve, compete and achieve - not only in actual competition, but even during training sessions. Then goes quads, difficult combos thrown here and there nonchalantly for our eyes, but these are constant signs of those Ladies determination, will to stay in contention for big things. The whole environment learns to strive and live on constant readiness for competition, even interal one - one's success fuels desire for success of 10 more. Their desire to be better than her training mate/achieve more/learn more difficult skill/learn unique skill is infectious and makes the machine run efficently, because they are willing to get it moved by themselves, us liking it or not.

The last thing I think is actually probably the most important in all this mechanism is the fact of skaters' willingness to follow, the school would be for nothing, if not for those skaters. It takes a right material for right sculptor as I heard multiple times dabbing in arts a while ago. Tutberidze's history of unsuccessful students proves only this rule that it takes one who understands her methodics and is willing to accept all things connected with it without any exception. The only problem that could appear is when one's body is not in line with one's mindset, but I suppose Tutberidze and her team have some methods applied also over this area. As I said - it takes a full devotion to this way of schooling to make it successful and functioning from student's perspective. Methods alone or examples of others' successed already accomplished are not enough to make a star of a newcomer - rules or other people won't train, skate or compete instead.

ETA - forgot to add this, probably not in subject really, but personally I think it has some importance also - regardless of my liking of Russian skaters, their way of expression, programs etc., I very much admire this 'cult' and worship over figure skating discipline by such young children recognized and then developed to be skaters in Russia (Ladies especially). Yes - it is a tough sport, demanding lots of sacrifices, rigorous work on your body and minset, but it is also a school of character, of developing yourself through the sport, knowing your limits or surpassing them. In a country where I hear more and more a desire of teens to be IG/Internet stars, have fast fame, lots of cash and following it's good to hear that there are still other ways followed by young people, actually inspiring even for 27-old dinosaur I am feeling like.

She's successful because she takes an absolute literal approach to what the rules say on paper, when those rules are not always meant to be taken literally and are often short-sighted in the first place. The judges don't have an understanding of how to score programs, not just in an objective sense but also in terms of properly applying the literal rules, so this superficial approach of Eteri's therefore gets rewarded. For example - you get more technical points for heavily backloading your programs. Most of the time that is poor composition of a program, but the judges never show ANY understanding of this and award the highest scores regardless.

When you are able to ignore so many great aspects of skating that are difficult to do well, and do consistently, it allows you to be able to gain consistency in doing superficially worthwhile things. She teaches a spindly jump technique that makes it far easier to do a jump with an arm over your head. A good judge would be able to recognize how these types of jumps are lacking in certain qualities and that doing an arm over the head doesn't make for an objectively better jump. You are simply sacrificing one quality for another, or in this case sacrificing multiple qualities (height, proper takeoff, ballon) in order to achieve just one other quality. Her skaters gain consistency because of this easier, flawed jump technique and the judges give full credit to it when they shouldn't be.

Obviously she is also good at being a taskmaster who instills good nerves into her skaters, but it only works so spectacularly (in terms of the points the skaters receive currently) because her ineptitude in many areas is not being checked by the judges. What's happening here is very similar to what caused the economic crisis and housing market crash a decade ago (and what our society is still characterized by) - a system of giving out false credit and nobody safeguarding against it, but instead actually encouraging it and profiting from it. You create a society of telling people that "money" is the only thing which matters in life, and that your entire worth as a person is judged by achieving this "wealth" above all else in life, which you then must show off in tacky fashion so that everyone realizes you have it.

NoNameFace said:

For me actually, she's a face, a front-woman of the whole school, but there is an army of people involved to run things smoothly with a large number of skaters, each promising, talented, young and demanding attention from various angles. I do think that a part of that supposed 'secret' is composed by hard work of those people, liking students' programs/presentation or not. They are all involved in gearing those skaters up, not only by making choreographies, organizing camps/trainings etc., but also through travelling with them, being for them in their debut competitons etc., assisting with this more organizational/adaptive stuff which I consider as equally important as technicalities, especially for such young people.

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first of all Eteri started from the ground when she came back to Moscow 9-10 years after working in the US back in the 90s, so she earned this success. Her team is: herself, Sergei Dudakov, Daniil Gleichengauz and Ilya Averbukh (he's not technically part of the team but he works a lot with Eteri's top students).

Eteri, Daniil and Ilya are working on the choreographies, while Sergei on the jumping technique (i remember TAT said so).

Daniil is travelling with juniors (you can follow him on instagram, or at the junior grand prix final since he's always with his students in the knc), but all three are going at the major events such as Worlds, Nationals or Grand Prix Final.

I don't know if there are other specialists but during practice sessions, in the backstage or in the KnC you see just them.

We know pretty much all the coaches who works there in figure skating looking at their website

http://самбо-70.рф/sport/zapas/Khrystaln#

The army of people is more on the fact that Sambo70 isn't just a figure skating club, it has everything including ballet and gymnastics schools, but also other coaches like Anna Tsareva (Pogo's coach) or Alexander Volkov can take advantage of these.

Blades of Passion said:

She's successful because she takes an absolute literal approach to what the rules say on paper, when those rules are not always meant to be taken literally and are often short-sighted in the first place. The judges don't have an understanding of how to score programs, not just in an objective sense but also in terms of properly applying the literal rules, so this superficial approach of Eteri's therefore gets rewarded. For example - you get more technical points for heavily backloading your programs. Most of the time that is poor composition of a program, but the judges never show ANY understanding of this and award the highest scores regardless.

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How would it be possible for judges in World Championships of Figure Skating and Junior FS to be such ignorants as you're claiming?

No secret really. Just hard work and luck.
Those girls could have been coached by Mishin but they just happened to prefer Moscow over St. Petersburg.

The blood of newborn children.

The luck that good students go to her does not explain the success rate of her students, especially skaters who made visible change in a short period of time.
Many people cried about Yulia's retirement, but the truth is buried that Eteri plays a large part in Yulia's success. Had not Yulia used "the girl in the coat" program, she might not be that memorable, or get scores in the Olympic year.

She definitely chose programs the match the individual images of her students: Evgenia-lyrical and soft; Tarakanova- fierce/intense/emotional... She is a coach and she does choreography too. That's also an advantage.

Based on the dance videos online, like this one, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUbDtK7YZ3g, she does pay attention to artistic training, or if not, she made pretty demanding physical exercise very engaging and enjoyable. Watching her team dance made me want to dance too.