Miner sparks judges with quad Salchow

GGFan · Jan 8, 2018

Ravyn Rant said:
I have to say the decision left a really bad taste in my mouth. We spent a lot of money to go see the competition live and if the results don't matter, why bother attending Nationals? And when someone with a half-century of fandom considers that, I can't even imagine what the casual viewers must be thinking.
Fortunately there are several international competitions coming to the west coast next season. Since only they are important now, perhaps I'll consider attending one of them.
There. I got it off my chest, now I feel a little better. (*raises an elegant middle finger in the general direction of the selection committee*)

In all of the craziness I had not even considered the ticket paying fans! :drama:

One could argue that there was at best a lack of transparency and at worst some deception in the ticketing sales for Nationals. People agreed to pay the prices that were set based on this being an Olympic year Nationals where everything is at stake. That's not quite how it turned out for the Men. I would be pissed too! :noshake:

I wonder if ticket sales will go down in future Nationals. We'll get some idea next year but won't really know until 2022. :popcorn:

TryMeLater · Jan 8, 2018

Mathman said:
The ISU is certainly consolidating its ascendency in this regard. The old model went like this. The ISU is a confederation of national federations. The national federations rule the ISU, not the other way around.

Each national federation holds its national championship, which is a big deal to that nation's skaters. Then the national federations all send their national champions to the World Championship where the world's best can compete against each other for national bragging rights.

Well, that was then, this is now. Since the 1990s the ISU has added more and more ISU events. It has been especially successful in pushing the Grand Prix. This was the dream of past ISU president Ottavio Cinquanta. He has received a lot of criticism for how he ran the ISU (like a dictatorship), but he did succeed in whittling away the importance of the national federations and increasing the relevance of the ISU itself. (This always happens. The person in charge, takes charge.)

So which is better? Should national federations hang on to what little influence and prestige remains to them, or should they embrace the new order?

I agree and disagree at the same time.
The federations still control the ISU and with the right majority can change whatever they want.
Skate Canada, Skate America, NHK, Prague Skate and such have been around a lot longer then the GP, and even then they were more prestigious (IMO) then nationals.
One of the reason for the national championship being a big deal is because the world was a "smaller" place years ago.
Now, everything is a flight away.
Look at the world cup (soccer or real football

for example): it's the FIFA competitions which matter most (and excite most), not the national leagues (which are also exciting but mostly for pride) but the international ones (like the champions league).

GGFan · Jan 8, 2018

qwertyskates said:
:agree: Agreed.

I wrote on another thread that the Russians are doing it right - they are asking Med to prove herself at an international event, the Euros, duking it out with the Nationals podium (except for Kostenaia who isn't age-eligible) in front of a more neutral panel. Even an obvious BOW like Med, the Russian Nathan, isn't given a bye. This helps to encourage the other Russian athletes that there is no favoritism, and you are as good as how you prove yourself at that particular space and time, i.e. peaking.

Yes, I think that is a great way of doing it. In the US there are two sports I can think of that rely on peaking to determine Olympic teams but the disadvantage is that the post-Nationals competitions are done behind closed doors. Going to euros is more fair.

1. U.S. Women's gymnastics: even after Nationals and the Olympic trials nothing is guaranteed to anyone except the winners. They have to keep competing until very close to the Olympics. This of course does have the disadvantage of keeping some athletes stressed who should not be.

2. U.S. swimming: Only the top two at Nationals qualify for the Olympics (which is no joke) in individual events, but then they have a relay pool of the top six finishers. Who actually gets to swim on the relay depends on who is peaking in the training in the weeks right before the Olympics. Who gets to swim in the finals in prime time is only determined after the preliminaries at the Olympics!

dorispulaski · Jan 8, 2018

Thank you for all the quotes in the article. This quote from Ross helps:

“That’s what I am capable of,” said the 26-year-old. “I do that at home, and it’s great to do it on the big stage. I know it’s not a fluke, this is the big moment. I have no regrets, at the end of the day, I did my job, and it’s up to them (committee) to decide (his Olympic fate). It’s my plan to warm up triples and do it in the moment. It felt good to just go out there and stomp a beautiful quad. It’s such a pure happiness not caring what the score is. You did your job, what mattered, and nothing can take away that happiness. It’s a pretty incredible feeling and why we skate.”

charlotte14 · Jan 10, 2018

Blades of Passion said:
Looking at the scores on paper is meaningless. Domestically Zhou's PCS have been very inflated and internationally his scores were inflated by underrotated quads that did not get called. At Finlandia Trophy, the Quad Sal and Quad Toe were both cheated, but not called. That is a BIG point boost he gets as a result, not just on the technical mark but also on the overall perception of the judges for the PCS, thinking he is capable of doing 4 Quads. His technique on the Quad Toe is especially horrendous, he's never even close on that jump. Vincent would have only finished that competition in 4th place rather than 2nd if he had been called correctly.

That LP of Zhou's at Finlandia, where he supposedly did 4 Quads, was something that gave him a lot of buzz and yet in actuality he only did 1 clean Quad in the whole competition - the Flip in the LP. In the SP he messed up the Lutz landing and underrotated the Flip, in the LP he again messed up the Lutz, and underrotated both the Sal and the Toe.

At Cup of China he had 2 underrotated Quad Flips and an underrotated Quad Salchow that were not called. Another big point boost, which would have dropped him in the standings. Then his showing at Grand Prix France was just atrocious, worse than anything Ross Miner did this season, and he again had an underrotated Quad Flip and an underrotated Quad Sal that were not called, which would have dropped him another spot in the competition.

So WHERE is the "body of work" from Vincent Zhou? It's not there. He was not actually better internationally this season than Ross, he simply got extra phantom points for cheated quads that were not called.

Zhou's coach is more powerful than Ross's.

Miner sparks judges with quad Salchow

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