Upgrade Jackson skates - help, which model?

Hi I'm looking to upgrade my skates. Some background:

I'm an adult skater, ~135lb.
For about half the year, I skate for ~10 hr/wk.
I started skating 1.5 years ago, but only for a total about 8 months.
I've been on Jackson Elles for 6 of those 8 months.

I've learned all the singles these past two months and am doing them with a lot of height and speed.
Before last month, the Elles weren't broken down at all; they still had a lot of support. But it seems like it only took them this past month to break down, mostly in my landing skate.

I want to start working on my axel and doubles soon and want my next pair of boots to last me until I learn doubles. With how short I've had my Elles for and how fast I've been progressing, I don't want to buy another pair of boots only to have to replace them before the year's up. My fitter says the Competitor with Aspire blades should last me a while, but a second opinion would be nice (btw, my fitter doesn't keep a lot of boots in his stock, so I don't think he's recommending the Competitors because they're discontinued).

Do you think it's worth the investment to pay extra for something like the Debut or Premiere / will the Debut or Premiere last longer?
Also, I feel like a boot with a higher heel might help with my sit spin position...

Hi There,

I don't have much advice because I'm not the skater, but I'll chime in with what I know. Jackson is revamping their whole line of "kits" (boot/blade sets) and boots. My skater is little and we ordered the Debut Standard to replace her Elle's, that's a 40 stiffness from Jackson. We still haven't seen them yet, they just arrived at the fitters yesterday. The Premiere is closing out and as of now there's kind of a hole in the lineup between the Debut Firm at about a 50 stiffness, and the next level Elite at 75. That's a big jump from the Elle's that's for sure. I know adults can handle a stiffer boot, but that may be too much of a change even for an adult. I don't know if the competitor represents that much over the Debut if you're willing to get a separate blade, though our fitter thinks pretty highly of the Aspire XP that comes on it. I guess I'd see if your fitter could get that Premiere for you to try, they were rated for Axel and beginning doubles and that might be the better choice for an adult moving to those jumps. At least your feet have stopped growing, we'll be lucky to get 9 months before we're looking at the next boot. I hope by then Jackson has filled in the line between Debut and Elite.

The Aspire blade is for just beginning freestyle; it is not meant for adults doing axels and beginning doubles.

Jackson still makes Freestyles, but in combination with the Aspire blade. My skate guy has folks get those just for the boots, replacing the blades with better ones. The Freestyles might get you through axels.

However, if you have the money and can adjust to much stiffer boots, go for the stiffer boots. I would never try to do axels in boots with only a stiffness rating of only 40, regardless of the manufacturer's suggestions for levels. Better to take longer adjusting to stiffness, than to risk having an injury that keeps you off the ice.

You might want to look into Jackson Elite boots, that would get you up through doubles.

If you want to stay with the Ultima blades, look into the Legacy blade. If you want to make the switch over the Wilson blades, Coronation Ace would fit the bill for you.
If you are looking to maybe go the MK route then the Professional or Professional Revolution will be what you'd most likely want.

Good luck!

Ic3Rabbit said:

You might want to look into Jackson Elite boots, that would get you up through doubles.

If you want to stay with the Ultima blades, look into the Legacy blade. If you want to make the switch over the Wilson blades, Coronation Ace would fit the bill for you.
If you are looking to maybe go the MK route then the Professional or Professional Revolution will be what you'd most likely want.

Good luck!

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I second looking into the Jackson Elite. They will be a lot stiffer than what you have now but the break in time was really quick. I am also an adult skater working on axel and starting doubles. I don't think I would be comfortable jumping in a less stiff boot. The other bonus is they would last you a lot longer than the Premier or Debut.

Coronation Ace is also a great intermediate level blade.

Equivelant blade to Coronation Ace and MK Pro, but a little cheaper and in the hard steel so they don't need to be sharpened as often, is the Eclipse Aurora. I got them on my new custom boots and I love them. I had Matrix Legacy before that, which I hated, and could not get used to them. I liked Coronation Ace and MK Pro when I had them, but I got the Eclipse Aurora this time because I wanted that 7 ft rocker in 440 steel without having to add an extra hundred bucks for the different metal.

@treesprite, not sure why you hated the Matrix Legacy blades but like the OP, I was coming out of the Elle with stock blades and I love mine. The transition was very easy for me.

Tavi... said:

@treesprite, not sure why you hated the Matrix Legacy blades but like the OP, I was coming out of the Elle with stock blades and I love mine. The transition was very easy for me.

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I think if someone has been using Jackson Ultima blades from the start, or blades similar to them, the person shouldn't have difficulty. I always had either MK Pros or Coronation Aces as a kid and after returning to skating as an adult. The Ultima Legacy has a drastically different profile, having an 8ft rocker, being flatter, and having toepicks closer to the ground than the MK Pro and the Wilson Coronation Ace. I kept going too far forward on the Legacy blades, and the toepicks were right there waiting to laugh at me. With the MK Pro, C Ace, and Eclipse Aurora - all 7ft rocker blades with the toepicks higher off the ice - I am able to keep my center of gravity much easier, and did/do not go forward toward the toepicks at all.

I really would like to see more research and data correlating seemingly subjective blade preferences with physical characteristics of skaters' bodies. I am certain that my high arches are the reason I had such a hard time with the Legacy blades.

allen1 said:

Hi I'm looking to upgrade my skates. Some background:

I'm an adult skater, ~135lb.
For about half the year, I skate for ~10 hr/wk.
I started skating 1.5 years ago, but only for a total about 8 months.
I've been on Jackson Elles for 6 of those 8 months.

I've learned all the singles these past two months and am doing them with a lot of height and speed.
Before last month, the Elles weren't broken down at all; they still had a lot of support. But it seems like it only took them this past month to break down, mostly in my landing skate.

I want to start working on my axel and doubles soon and want my next pair of boots to last me until I learn doubles. With how short I've had my Elles for and how fast I've been progressing, I don't want to buy another pair of boots only to have to replace them before the year's up. My fitter says the Competitor with Aspire blades should last me a while, but a second opinion would be nice (btw, my fitter doesn't keep a lot of boots in his stock, so I don't think he's recommending the Competitors because they're discontinued).

Do you think it's worth the investment to pay extra for something like the Debut or Premiere / will the Debut or Premiere last longer?
Also, I feel like a boot with a higher heel might help with my sit spin position...

Click to expand...

(1) At your level, assuming you stay with Jackson boots, you should move away from the Jackson recreational line (boot sold with pre-mounted blade; this includes the Elle and the Competitor) to the Jackson competitive line (boot sold separately; you pick the blade best suited for you).

(2) The Premiere is in the process of being discontinued. You don't mention whether you are a man or a woman. According to the Jackson website, the women's model has been discontinued, but the men's model is still listed as stock for now. The Premiere is a leather model. Jackson is revamping their line to synthetics.

(3) The entry level in the competitive line was the Debut, introduced ~mid 2017, just discontinued. Replaced by the Debut Fusion. I personally don't like to be a guinea pig.

(4) I'll give a third vote for the Elite. The current version of the Elite (a lightweight model fabricated with synthetic uppers and a composite carbon fiber and leather heel and sole) was introduced in 2016 (women's version rolled out ~mid year; men's version rolled out ~end of year). So it's been on the market for at least a year. My skate tech has sold some; so far positive feedback. I've posted on this forum and another for comments; only a couple of responses, but also positive (excluding one who had problems with customs).

I'm also an adult skater, about the same weight. Lower level (edges and spins mainly, half-jumps at most). I've been wearing the previous generation men's Elite Suede (purchased end of 2014), which had a nominal stiffness rating of 80. I had no problems with break-in, no problems with deep knee and ankle bends. So at your level, the current Elites (in the same stiffness range, varies depending on model) should not be too stiff for you. I think stiffness is more of an issue for kids since (a) they are lighter and (b) their feet are still growing, so you don't want an overly extended break-in period relative to the total service life.

Also, remember: as you go up the model line, you get better materials and a better design for better fit, comfort, performance, and service life.

treesprite said:

I think if someone has been using Jackson Ultima blades from the start, or blades similar to them, the person shouldn't have difficulty. I always had either MK Pros or Coronation Aces as a kid and after returning to skating as an adult. The Ultima Legacy has a drastically different profile, having an 8ft rocker, being flatter, and having toepicks closer to the ground than the MK Pro and the Wilson Coronation Ace. I kept going too far forward on the Legacy blades, and the toepicks were right there waiting to laugh at me. With the MK Pro, C Ace, and Eclipse Aurora - all 7ft rocker blades with the toepicks higher off the ice - I am able to keep my center of gravity much easier, and did/do not go forward toward the toepicks at all.

I really would like to see more research and data correlating seemingly subjective blade preferences with physical characteristics of skaters' bodies. I am certain that my high arches are the reason I had such a hard time with the Legacy blades.

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Thanks - it makes sense that if you’re used to a 7 foot rocker, changing to an 8 foot rocker with a very different profile could be tough or impossible to get used to. I definitely don’t have high arches (quite the opposite, plus i pronate badly) so if your theory is correct I may just have been lucky to start with Jackson Ultima blades from the beginning.

treesprite said:

Equivelant blade to Coronation Ace and MK Pro, but a little cheaper and in the hard steel so they don't need to be sharpened as often, is the Eclipse Aurora. I got them on my new custom boots and I love them. I had Matrix Legacy before that, which I hated, and could not get used to them. I liked Coronation Ace and MK Pro when I had them, but I got the Eclipse Aurora this time because I wanted that 7 ft rocker in 440 steel without having to add an extra hundred bucks for the different metal.

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I previously posted a review of the Eclipse Aurora (including a comparison with the Wilson Coronation Ace) here:

https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/s...urora-blades&p=1504284&viewfull=1#post1504284

My one caveat is that the Aurora has a flatter spin rocker than the Coronation Ace. But from what I've read, and from what my skate tech has told me, Ultima blades also tend to have a flatter spin rocker than comparable Wilson and MK models [unconfirmed]. So, if the spin rocker radius is important to you, you should double check. Also note, I believe Ultima blades all have 8-ft radius main rockers (with the exception of the Nova, which has a 7-ft radius main rocker), whereas the Coronation Ace, Pro, and Aurora all have 7-ft radius main rockers. So that's another parameter to take into account when considering a blade upgrade.

Tavi... said:

Thanks - it makes sense that if you’re used to a 7 foot rocker, changing to an 8 foot rocker with a very different profile could be tough or impossible to get used to. I definitely don’t have high arches (quite the opposite, plus i pronate badly) so if your theory is correct I may just have been lucky to start with Jackson Ultima blades from the beginning.

Click to expand...

I have flat feet (fallen arches). I skated many years with a 7-ft rocker, and am in the process of changing over to an 8-ft rocker. I instantly loved the better glide and greater stability on the 8-ft rocker (different skaters will likely have different experiences). I'm going from a flatter to a much sharper spin rocker though, and that has been more challenging.

treesprite said:

I think if someone has been using Jackson Ultima blades from the start, or blades similar to them, the person shouldn't have difficulty. I always had either MK Pros or Coronation Aces as a kid and after returning to skating as an adult. The Ultima Legacy has a drastically different profile, having an 8ft rocker, being flatter, and having toepicks closer to the ground than the MK Pro and the Wilson Coronation Ace. I kept going too far forward on the Legacy blades, and the toepicks were right there waiting to laugh at me. With the MK Pro, C Ace, and Eclipse Aurora - all 7ft rocker blades with the toepicks higher off the ice - I am able to keep my center of gravity much easier, and did/do not go forward toward the toepicks at all.

I really would like to see more research and data correlating seemingly subjective blade preferences with physical characteristics of skaters' bodies. I am certain that my high arches are the reason I had such a hard time with the Legacy blades.

Click to expand...

Your issue was probably not primarily due to the difference in main rocker radius, 8-ft vs 7-ft. Paramount has instructive videos on lift angle and blade profile here:

https://www.paramountskates.com/videos.

I'm currently on the Paramount 12" Freestyle (their version of the Wilson Gold Seal). It has a combination of a flat (8-ft radius) main rocker and a sharp (12-in radius) spin rocker with high placement of the drag pick. It has a substantially higher heel lift relative to the Eclipse Aurora; i.e., you have to raise the blade heel higher (alternatively, rock more forward on the blade) before you hit the drag pick.

treesprite said:

I think if someone has been using Jackson Ultima blades from the start, or blades similar to them, the person shouldn't have difficulty. I always had either MK Pros or Coronation Aces as a kid and after returning to skating as an adult. The Ultima Legacy has a drastically different profile, having an 8ft rocker, being flatter, and having toepicks closer to the ground than the MK Pro and the Wilson Coronation Ace. I kept going too far forward on the Legacy blades, and the toepicks were right there waiting to laugh at me. With the MK Pro, C Ace, and Eclipse Aurora - all 7ft rocker blades with the toepicks higher off the ice - I am able to keep my center of gravity much easier, and did/do not go forward toward the toepicks at all.

I really would like to see more research and data correlating seemingly subjective blade preferences with physical characteristics of skaters' bodies. I am certain that my high arches are the reason I had such a hard time with the Legacy blades.

Click to expand...

I transitioned from MK Pros to Matrix Legacy. I'd been skating on the MK Pros for around 18 months and it took around 2 hours to get used to the Legacies. I have fairly high arches, and was wearing one of the older styles of the Jackson Elites.

tstop4me said:

I have flat feet (fallen arches). I skated many years with a 7-ft rocker, and am in the process of changing over to an 8-ft rocker. I instantly loved the better glide and greater stability on the 8-ft rocker (different skaters will likely have different experiences). I'm going from a flatter to a much sharper spin rocker though, and that has been more challenging.

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Even transitioning from the stock blade I was in before (Aspire?) I immediately noticed a huge difference in the glide - it honestly makes skating so much more fun!

I would say the Premieres or even Elites would be good. It may be too big of a jump going from Elles to Elites though. I’m an adult skater, 5’ 1” 110 lbs with all my singles working on Axel. The Premiere would be great. The thing is though, they are phasing out the current Premiere model, and the new one hasn’t come out yet. Either you can wait a few more months for the new one, or you can get the “current” ones on sale at clearance prices.

just4lizzy said:

I would say the Premieres or even Elites would be good. It may be too big of a jump going from Elles to Elites though. I’m an adult skater, 5’ 1” 110 lbs with all my singles working on Axel. The Premiere would be great. The thing is though, they are phasing out the current Premiere model, and the new one hasn’t come out yet. Either you can wait a few more months for the new one, or you can get the “current” ones on sale at clearance prices.

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Premieres are childrens boots.

Ic3Rabbit said:

Premieres are childrens boots.

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What makes you say that? I’m wearing women’s size 5.5. Unless you are referring to how they’re being phased out or their level of support?

just4lizzy said:

What makes you say that? I’m wearing women’s size 5.5. Unless you are referring to how they’re being phased out or their level of support?

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Jackson presents them mostly as a child's boot (boys). They did have a mens but it's not the best choice and it is being retired.

The Premiere has just been rereleased. http://www.jacksonultima.com/en/Ind...UmLva1a2b3c4d5evBhztDP25w1A2B3C4D5E1A2B3C4D5E