Zagitova responds to Wagner

peeches726 · Feb 26, 2018

https://www.rt.com/sport/419808-zagitova-medvedeva-olympics-figure-skating/

her even more now... Alina is insanely composed on and off the ice - basically tossed out Ashleys' sour grapes without coming off the least bit defensive. Really hope she stays in skating as she says she intends to!

BlackAxel · Feb 26, 2018

In response to Ashley's comments:

"AZ: I saw it on Instagram. I can say that it only spurred me on to be stronger and made me want to prove that this is not true. But there's no proving anything to such people. She could try skating such a program at the Olympics and I'll be happy to watch her do it and I won't give the same reaction."

Such a shame that Ashley didnt have the opportunity to showcase such a program at Pyeongchang ...

Proxy · Feb 26, 2018

What were Ashley's comments?

Sam-Skwantch · Feb 26, 2018

Proxy said:
What were Ashley's comments?

“this is not a program, all the jumps are in the second part” -according to the article linked above.

NaVi · Feb 26, 2018

peeches726 said:
https://www.rt.com/sport/419808-zagitova-medvedeva-olympics-figure-skating/

her even more now... Alina is insanely composed on and off the ice - basically tossed out Ashleys' sour grapes without coming off the least bit defensive. Really hope she stays in skating as she says she intends to!

No, she did not "call out Wagner"... she was asked a question and answered it.

draqq · Feb 26, 2018

We know that Ashley wouldn't be able to backload her programs. At the same time, Zagitova partially won because of the backloading. Her free program still counts as a program of course; I just don't want backloading, as impressive as it is, to become obligatory to win in ladies skating over the next ten years.

SimplyLex · Feb 26, 2018

Honestly, what did you expect her to say? "hey, Ashley is right, I put all my jumps in the second part only for points, choreo is a secondary thing"? LOL of course she said what she said. And I wouldn't say that saying "she's welcome to skate such a program at the Olympics" is rising above it. She's basically at Ashley's level. Rising above would be saying "I can't change how she feels about it, but what matters is that I believe it's a good choreography. I don't have to prove anything to anyone" or sth like this.

I don't support the way Ashley talks about things she doesn't like, but I also happen to agree with her on this issue, so.

peeches726 · Feb 26, 2018

NaVi said:
No, she did not "call out Wagner"... she was asked a question and answered it.

Just because she was responding to a question doesn’t mean she didn’t call her out / challenge her criticism, what have you. Semantics aside, I think what’s interesting here is that Zagitova didn’t shy away from the topic but addressed it with poise and conviction. Good head on her shoulders.

Anyway I edited the title of this thread in case anyone else thought I was being misleading

Amer · Feb 26, 2018

draqq said:
We know that Ashley wouldn't be able to backload her programs. At the same time, Zagitova partially won because of the backloading. Her free program still counts as a program of course; I just don't want backloading, as impressive as it is, to become obligatory to win in ladies skating over the next ten years.

My thoughts exactly.

Erin9 · Feb 26, 2018

draqq said:
We know that Ashley wouldn't be able to backload her programs. At the same time, Zagitova partially won because of the backloading. Her free program still counts as a program of course; I just don't want backloading, as impressive as it is, to become obligatory to win in ladies skating over the next ten years.

I don’t want it to become obligatory either. And I understand the POV that it makes for a lopsided program.

That said- it was smart of Zagitova to do it. She played the system to her advantage. It’s very difficult to do. It certainly helped her win.

Maybe in the future, how much backloading is allowed should be limited. For sure- allow for them to reward those who can pull off a few. But maybe not allow all jumps to be put in the back half. I can’t imagine when the bonus points for putting jumps in the back half were put in that the intention was that the whole program would be backloaded.

andromache · Feb 26, 2018

I don't think it's inappropriate for retired (or essentially retired, in Ashley's case) skaters to have opinions about competitions they're watching. I don't know why Ashley's comments were made such a big deal of by the media. Plenty of other retired skaters and commentators have expressed opinions about the backloading. (I'm not "pro-backloading," but I'm not really "anti-backloading" either, FWIW. It's an incredible athletic feat during the second half of that LP.)

And as for people saying "let's see Ashley do a backloaded program," um, let's see ANY lady in their mid-20s backload an entire LP. Being 15 years old definitely has some physical advantages in terms of jumping.

Shayuki · Feb 26, 2018

NaVi said:
No, she did not "call out Wagner"... she was asked a question and answered it.

Yep. And she didn't even call her out or challenge or anything. She essentially just said that Wagner can skate whatever kind of a program she wants and Zagitova would happily watch it without making such comments.

russianfan · Feb 26, 2018

Oh, the drama! :drama:

Let's see what she has said

She could try skating such a program at the Olympics and I'll be happy to watch her do it and I won't give the same reaction.

There are two ways of interpreting her words

1) "She could try skating such a program at the Olympics and I'll be happy to watch her do it" (calls her out, assuming Ashley aren't able to perform such layout)
2) "I'll be happy to watch her do the same and I won't give the same reaction" (basically showing that she doesn't care much)

What to choose is up to you and your agenda :laugh:

But one thing you should consider is what she said after

It is true that figure skating is developing fast now. There is already another generation of athletes that's coming after me, and then one more, and then more and more. And that's not going to stop. And I probably will think the same of other athletes – because, for instance, in my training group, some girls are already doing quadruple jumps. But I will do my very best to stay in the game as long as I can.

Proxy said:
What were Ashley's comments?

https://twitter.com/AshWagner2010/status/962882943885524992

yelyoh · Feb 26, 2018

Shayuki said:
Yep. And she didn't even call her out or challenge or anything. She essentially just said that Wagner can skate whatever kind of a program she wants and Zagitova would happily watch it without making such comments.

No she implied hey I'd like to see you do it Ashley.

peeches726 · Feb 26, 2018

I think the problem with Ashley’s comments aren’t so much her opinion - everyone is entitled - it was her wording - specifically “this is not a program”. Way too harsh and a time when a little more thought before posting would go a long way. Also describing her first three elements (choreo, spin, footwork) as “killing time” is pretty low. Those elements have to appear somewhere in the program and just because they come first doesn’t make them a waste of time. For all Ashely’s pride of being unfiltered, she shouldn’t be proud of being thoughtless. I would conclude by saying a tweak in the rules might be a good thing because if every program is backloaded that’s not a good thing for obvious reasons (lack of variety, exclusion of many musical choices etc). I personally think zagitovas program is super exciting and enjoyable, but hopefully they come up with some other ways of building programs that make room for a variety of layouts.

Sam-Skwantch · Feb 26, 2018

andromache said:
I don't think it's inappropriate for retired (or essentially retired, in Ashley's case) skaters to have opinions about competitions they're watching. I don't know why Ashley's comments were made such a big deal of by the media.

People started popping the corn as soon as she started basically praying that Boyang and his “program full of crossovers” wouldn’t medal.

GGFan · Feb 26, 2018

Tolstoj · Feb 26, 2018

peeches726 said:
https://www.rt.com/sport/419808-zagitova-medvedeva-olympics-figure-skating/

her even more now... Alina is insanely composed on and off the ice - basically tossed out Ashleys' sour grapes without coming off the least bit defensive. Really hope she stays in skating as she says she intends to!

I don't know if this is exactly what Alina said cause RT clearly wanted to go on that route.

But if it is true she said what everyone is thinking for a while now but nobody said it out loud.

It's so easy hiding behind comments like "backloading jumps kill the artistry" or other envious comments i often hear from certain people. If she is that much better please show us, we want to see it at an Olympic stage.

Otherwise it's nothing but envy.

andromache · Feb 26, 2018

peeches726 said:
I think the problem with Ashley’s comments aren’t so much her opinion - everyone is entitled - it was her wording - specifically “this is not a program”. Way too harsh and a time when a little more thought before posting would go a long way.

Twitter isn't the greatest venue for expressing complex thoughts or for expecting others to express complex thoughts.

IMO, "this is not a program" didn't seem like very harsh wording to me, as it didn't at all criticize Alina's actual skating, performance qualities, abilities, etc. Ashley's obviously on the anti-backloading bandwagon, and her condemnation of the layout was strong (which I strongly disagree with her opinion on). She also said she respects the competitive approach - she just thinks the program layout antithetical to what she thinks figure skating should be about.

But IMO, people who complain about the backloading are missing the forest for the trees.

tjb · Feb 26, 2018

andromache said:
And as for people saying "let's see Ashley do a backloaded program," um, let's see ANY lady in their mid-20s backload an entire LP. Being 15 years old definitely has some physical advantages in terms of jumping.

it's not a fact, but just your opinion. and you have a plenty of interesting opinions, like "alena kostornaia is slow".
ashley also likes to talk how a 15 yo girls have an advantage over older ladies. but why ashley herself didn't showed any jumping abilites at the age of 15? if it was so easy for her

Zagitova responds to Wagner

peeches726

BlackAxel

Proxy

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”

NaVi

draqq

FigureSkatingPhenom

SimplyLex

peeches726

Amer

Erin9

andromache

Shayuki

russianfan

Match Penalty

yelyoh

peeches726

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”

GGFan

Tolstoj

andromache

tjb

Match Penalty

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