What do you think of the team event?

Old Cat Lady · Mar 17, 2018

I thought it was a great idea when it was proposed way back when. But now that I see it in place, I'm kind of disappointed with it. Mainly because no one seems to really care about it - Canada seemed like the only country that actually tried to win it. The top skaters seem to think of it as just a warm up. I feel like it devalues the Olympic medal a bit. Right now, the team medal just seems like a vehicle for strong federations to give out participation rewards.

Colonel Green · Mar 17, 2018

Old Cat Lady said:
Mainly because no one seems to really care about it - Canada seemed like the only country that actually tried to win it.

I don't agree that they don't care. It's simply the case that most of the teams know they can't win it due to weaknesses in one or more component areas. For instance, America's crippling weakness in pairs, or the huge gap between Japan's strong individual skaters and its pairs/ice dance teams.

I expect that over the long term the existence of the event will continue to motivate improvements in those areas and hopefully bring more teams into genuine competition.

Also, on a pure narrative level, I think the team event is a good thing for Olympic figure skating. It's kind of a big sampler event that introduces viewers to many of the key players before the other events start up. I think Virtue/Moir and the Shibs, especially, benefited from this in Pyeongchang.

Scrufflet · Mar 17, 2018

Old Cat Lady said:
I thought it was a great idea when it was proposed way back when. But now that I see it in place, I'm kind of disappointed with it. Mainly because no one seems to really care about it - Canada seemed like the only country that actually tried to win it. The top skaters seem to think of it as just a warm up. I feel like it devalues the Olympic medal a bit. Right now, the team medal just seems like a vehicle for strong federations to give out participation rewards.

I think you're right. But I think that the event will become more important to the skaters and feds. and that they will invest more energy and enthusiasm in it.

ladyjane · Mar 17, 2018

I really love the team event, despite some negatives like the ones mentioned by Old Cat Lady. The format might be tweaked a bit, like perhaps changing the worth of the FS/FD, more like in the individual events where the Free gets more points than the Short. I realise some skaters see it as a kind of warm up, but that certainly doesn't apply to all. It would be good though if there was some more time between the Team and individual pairs event, even if it's just one day. Some pairs managed doing so many programmes close together very well, but an extra day to recover wouldn't hurt. It's possible as there were some days at the OG when there were no FS events at all. Audiences like the team event, it's a possibility to see all disciplines in a short period of time. It's also a way for skaters to share a triumph or even a low with others, something not possible at the individual events. I hope it's here to stay!

Ziotic · Mar 17, 2018

If you look at China for example, since they are hosting in 2022 they have stated they want to improve their weaker disciplines to be in the medal conversation.

Japan is also looking to improve their pairs teams and dance isn’t looking so bad.

I think it will just take time to get other nations focusing on all disciplines and I really don’t think encouraging that is a bad thing.

Shayuki · Mar 17, 2018

I think that the team event requires some tweaks.

One thing I'd do is a weighed point total system rather than just going by the rankings. It's a very different thing to be 5th while being 2 points away from #1 and 5th while being 50 points away from #1. In some disciplines, there's just going to be 3, 4 competitive countries. So one of the participants can have a terrible skate and still get a nice chunk of points for finishing 4th or some such, despite losing to the winner of the category by a massive amount. I don't think that that's how it should go.

And I'm not sure about how to fix this but it does feel wrong that Kolyada gets a silver. Especially after taking both spots.

Now, I'm not sure if it'd be a great idea to force the skater to be different for both the SP and the FS either, because Kostner for example is the only competitive lady Italy would have and in that case, it's unfair to force them to use their #2. Not sure about a good solution for this dilemma.

Jammers · Mar 17, 2018

I think already the team event is much more accepted as an serious Olympic event with medals on the line as compared to 2014 when the skaters in the k&c were almost acting more like they were at the World team Trophy.

tjb · Mar 17, 2018

Shayuki said:
Now, I'm not sure if it'd be a great idea to force the skater to be different for both the SP and the FS either, because Kostner for example is the only competitive lady Italy would have and in that case, it's unfair to force them to use their #2. Not sure about a good solution for this dilemma.

are teams really forced to have a sub? I thought that they might not make any substitutions at all, if they want to. as far as i remember canada at this olympics made a substituion only once in ladies. or i'm wrong? i didn't watch dance so i'm not sure

Ziotic · Mar 17, 2018

tjb said:
are teams really forced to have a sub? I thought that they might not make any substitutions at all, if they want to. as far as i remember canada at this olympics made a substituion only once in ladies. or i'm wrong? i didn't watch dance so i'm not sure

The sub is not forced. It’s an option, but some people have discussed changing it to be required.

Colonel Green · Mar 17, 2018

Ziotic said:
The sub is not forced. It’s an option, but some people have discussed changing it to be required.

That absolutely shouldn't happen. Most countries are lucky to have even one top-tier skater in a particular field; if they can't use that person for both events, the degree of competition in the team event will just go down further.

Also, regarding the OP, I think the debate over team events in figure skating is mostly happening because the event is quite new. There are team events at the Olympics in everything from gymnastics to cross country skiing to luge to the million relay events in swimming, sprinting, speed skating, etc. None of those disciplines spend any time discussing whether team luge makes any sense anymore.

Anyasnake · Mar 17, 2018

It should be placed after the individual event.

The point system has to be redefined too.

Truth is only some countries can benefit from it : Russia, Canada, USA maybe Japan (and Italy sometimes). Only the big federations. The rich gets richer (and the poor gets poorer ?). Javi and Yuna never had that opportunity...

ancientpeas · Mar 17, 2018

I think the team event need some reformatting if they want more than 4 or 5 countries to be competitive. But we have had a lot of threads about that so I won't state my ideas again. I think in Sochi the Russians really wanted to win the team event. In Korea I would say that both the Russians and Canadians wanted to win it but after the men's event and knowing they would be behind in dance by at least 2 in both events (losing to V/M both times and whichever american team went up) and after Kaetlyn got 3rd in Women's I'm sure they did the math. It is very hard to catch up after the short programs. If Kaetlyn had bombed the Short or B/S had managed to beat the Shibs we might have seen T/M skate the long program. Really this competition was won on the first day for the most part. With D/R second and Patrick beating Mikael the Russians were behind and that was going to be hard to make up. If D/R had bombed or even been behind S/M or Patrick had been behind Mikael I think we would have seen a much more closely contested battle.

I think in China we will have a closer run for the medals. Canada's team will not be as strong I think. I expect the Chinese to really push for a medal in the team event.

ancientpeas · Mar 17, 2018

Anyasnake said:
It should be placed after the individual event.

The point system has to be redefined too.

Truth is only some countries can benefit from it : Russia, Canada, USA maybe Japan (and Italy sometimes). Only the big federations. The rich gets richer (and the poor gets poorer ?). Javi and Yuna never had that opportunity...

if they wanted to make the team event more of a marque ratings event they would have have a mixed (maybe the Olympic team) team. The best male, female, dance and pair from a team that has not qualified for the team event. That would bring even more star power to the event.

Colonel Green · Mar 17, 2018

Anyasnake said:
Truth is only some countries can benefit from it : Russia, Canada, USA maybe Japan (and Italy sometimes). Only the big federations. The rich gets richer (and the poor gets poorer ?). Javi and Yuna never had that opportunity...

That's true of team events in every sport, though. Kyle Shewfelt was the greatest artistic gymnast Canada has ever produced, and won gold in the floor exercise in Athens. He had no chance at a team medal because the Canadian team sucked other than him and didn't even qualify for the main event.

ancientpeas · Mar 17, 2018

ancientpeas said:
if they wanted to make the team event more of a marque ratings event they would have have a mixed (maybe the Olympic team) team. The best male, female, dance and pair from a team that has not qualified for the team event. That would bring even more star power to the event.

They would have to counteract the whole "2 dance teams, 2 pair teams" substitution problem. My idea is to name them all (like every team names a sub if they have one but aren't obligated to use it-and everyone gets a medal- yes it means more medals but it would be fairer).

So say this year it would have been:
Javi and Deniss
Ekaterina ALEXANDROVSKAYA / Harley WINDSOR and Miriam ZIEGLER / Severin KIEFER
Elizabet TURSYNBAEVA and Nicole RAJICOVA
Natalia KALISZEK / Maksym SPODYRIEV and Penny COOMES / Nicholas BUCKLAND

I'm actually getting more and more pro this idea as I think about it.

oatmella · Mar 17, 2018

I think the athletes would enjoy and put more/maximum effort into the team event if it was held after the individual event. I think as a viewer it would be better to watch and all would not have to worry/stress about the individual events following in a few days.

millie · Mar 17, 2018

What do I think of the Team event? It was the best event because Canada won the Gold. If Canada didn’t win the Gold, we would probably be complaining and wanting the setup changed too.

samkrut@mail.ru · Mar 17, 2018

Old Cat Lady said:
I thought it was a great idea when it was proposed way back when. But now that I see it in place, I'm kind of disappointed with it. Mainly because no one seems to really care about it - Canada seemed like the only country that actually tried to win it. The top skaters seem to think of it as just a warm up. I feel like it devalues the Olympic medal a bit. Right now, the team medal just seems like a vehicle for strong federations to give out participation rewards.

I think Russia did care about winning the team gold. That would be the perfect golden triad: team FS - ladies FS - hockey. Everything else could be totally dismissed.

I am sure the initial setup was: B/S for both (without S/B it was the only choice), Medvedeva/Zagitova: Medvedeva was injured and her SP was a sure win, Zagitova never lost with DQ - both would get OG gold and it would be less traumatic for the one who would lose individual gold. With men and pairs it was not decided. If Kolyada skated SP with the same 100+ score as during a GP he would be switched with Aliev who had good FS during the Europeans and T/M would stay for FS in order to not risk losing the overall gold. That was a solid scenario for the gold. The problem was Kolyada's bombing big time. Gold became out of question. But the silver seemed still easy: no one thought that Mirai could skate that well to put some pressure on Russia. That's why the decision was to spare T/M for individuals. After they won team SP, I am sure, the hopes about their individual medal were quite high. And maybe after losing chances for gold no one cared much: silver or bronze, is there big difference, anyway?

Ziotic · Mar 17, 2018

[email protected] said:
I think Russia did care about winning the team gold. That would be the perfect golden triad: team FS - ladies FS - hockey. Everything else could be totally dismissed.

I am sure the initial setup was: B/S for both (without S/B it was the only choice), Medvedeva/Zagitova: Medvedeva was injured and her SP was a sure win, Zagitova never lost with DQ - both would get OG gold and it would be less traumatic for the one who would lose individual gold. With men and pairs it was not decided. If Kolyada skated SP with the same 100+ score as during a GP he would be switched by Aliev who had good FS during the Europeans and T/M would stay for FS in order to not risk losing the overall gold. That was a solid scenario for the gold. The problem was Kolyada's bombing big time. Gold became out of question. But the silver seemed still easy: no one thought that Mirai could skate that well to put some pressure on Russia. That's why the decision was to spare T/M for individuals. After they won team SP, I am sure, the hopes about their individual medal were quite high. And maybe after losing chances for gold no one cared much: silver or bronze, is there big difference, anyway?

Off topic, but I find it very funny that people don’t think Russia winning hockey gold is tainted as the North American teams couldn’t send their best.

Yet had Med/Zag not been able to compete whoever won the gold medal would always have a “gold medal*” that would be forever questioned.

plushyfan · Mar 17, 2018

Anyasnake said:
It should be placed after the individual event.

The point system has to be redefined too.

Truth is only some countries can benefit from it : Russia, Canada, USA maybe Japan (and Italy sometimes). Only the big federations. The rich gets richer (and the poor gets poorer ?). Javi and Yuna never had that opportunity...

they can build the team if they want

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