2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

Sugar Coated · Feb 28, 2019

rlopen said:
Nope. Not what I said. I said give unlimited spots to big countries and then limit said big spots when they start to impede on smaller countries. So...if 10 countries are being shut out by big feds having great skaters and if USA, Japan, and Russia all have 8 (it’s a hypothetical here)..make them each go to 5 skaters and then whichever country has the lowest average Season’s Best with its skaters who could be going to Worlds will be the one reduced to 4 spots. It clearly isn’t realistic but would be my preferred system. However, if there are more countries being shut out than 10, than continue to reduce until said Federations back down to 3 (but the US can be narrowed down to 2 if need be we aren’t as good as Japan/Russia lol.)

Isn’t this literally the system they have now, except with last years Worlds performance instead of using a countries average seasons best? The dominant countries only gets a max of 3 to prevent smaller countries from being pushed out. Taking an average seasons best would also force federations to limit the number of skaters they’d want participating in ANY competitions. This might have prevented giving someone like Sofia or Liza a chance to compete at all this season because you don’t want to risk lowering your countries average season best so you only send the skaters to competition with a track record of high score from the previous season.

Scott512 · Feb 28, 2019

Georgya said:
You think way to big of them if you see this debacle as a "strategy". I think is poor planning. The risk of russia loosing three spots next year is not so big as some people love to write here in the style of russian ice dance tragedy 2.0.

It's the opposite: one of the easiest years for russian ladies to keep 3 spots

Lechat said:
Did TAT think the same after Alina’s victory las year ?

rlopen said:
Nope. Not what I said. I said give unlimited spots to big countries and then limit said big spots when they start to impede on smaller countries. So...if 10 countries are being shut out by big feds having great skaters and if USA, Japan, and Russia all have 8 (it’s a hypothetical here)..make them each go to 5 skaters and then whichever country has the lowest average Season’s Best with its skaters who could be going to Worlds will be the one reduced to 4 spots. It clearly isn’t realistic but would be my preferred system. However, if there are more countries being shut out than 10, than continue to reduce until said Federations back down to 3 (but the US can be narrowed down to 2 if need be we aren’t as good as Japan/Russia lol.)

I like it rl. Well explained. Sensible.

malya · Feb 28, 2019

Bold prediction for worlds after all the fearmongering of losing 3 spots.

Russia will keep them easily. 5 - 8 was enough how can it be worse? Sofia will get in this range, and Alina probably above - > job already done.

And honestly I don't even know why it would be that big of a deal if disaster strikes and russia lost one, but some people will try to make one out of it

#socialstudiesinfsfandomwhenyouareinjuredathomearefun

Sugar Coated · Feb 28, 2019

Scott512 said:
Did you watch the olympics? Thats so much bigger than worlds. Worlds after olympics? Lol. Russia is in a golden era of ladies figure skating that will surpass anything any country has ever done in ladie figure skating!

You put so much on worlds last year and Zhenya an all time great ladies skater wasnt even there. That kind of changed things last worlds for the Russian girls for whatever
its worth. But keep harping on last years worlds where Russia had a weak team compared to this year. Others have moved on to this years team that will do alot better than last years team where Masha and Stasya failed to deliver. Alina OGM should not have even been there after being ill after olympics. Dont most OGM skip worlds? I thought so.

Russia absolutely is in a golden era of figure skating with unprecedented talent. And I want to see more of these athletes compete but that doesn’t necessarily justify changing the rules for Worlds. Worlds is about an athlete representing a country so it makes sense to limit the number of athletes one country is allowed to send. The more athletes competing the greater chance for a country to produce a winner. I’m totally for getting rid of country affiliations completely but that’s not really consistent with the Olympics and would screw up funding for athletes.

The argument is that if Russia had such a deep dominant team of athletes then they shouldn’t have had any problem keeping 3 spots last year. Even if an athlete like Zhenya was injured, they should have had many other athletes that could score just as high. Even this year people are worried about keeping 3 spots which indicates that maybe Russia has incredible talent but that this alone doesn’t guarantee victory for a country. You have to be strategic about who you send, it’s part of the competition, not who has the greatest number of athletes with potential to win.

macy · Feb 28, 2019

rlopen said:
That’s because those were not really their top 3 representatives that year. Maybe they could expand the spots of bigger nations but keep 1 spot for smaller nations that aren’t as good? Clearly this would never happen but in tennis the best in the world go...regardless of nation. They use a ranking system. I don’t get why ISU can’t just use a ranking system or seasons best list to determine it and maybe if Russians have 10 and Japanese have 10 and there are 2 skaters from different small countries being shut out they can just reduced the Japanese and Russian number down to 9 each. Sadly IOC would never let them.

i'm not sure how the current SB list is made, but i would be behind a SB list which keeps adding skaters total points throughout the season (maybe only skaters from the most dominant countries who have 2 GPs, extra if you make GPF, national scores don't count) and whoever has the highest totals by 2/1 of every year is a lock for worlds. obviously there would be exceptions and different rules for smaller countries or skaters who might be injured during the GP season, but this might be a better way to make sure some of the best of the best make worlds without considering limited spots.

Danibellerika · Feb 28, 2019

macy said:
i'm not sure how the current SB list is made, but i would be behind a SB list which keeps adding skaters total points throughout the season (maybe only skaters from the most dominant countries who have 2 GPs, extra if you make GPF, national scores don't count) and whoever has the highest totals by 2/1 of every year is a lock for worlds. obviously there would be exceptions and different rules for smaller countries or skaters who might be injured during the GP season, but this might be a better way to make sure some of the best of the best make worlds without considering limited spots.

Yeah and there are opportunities like 4CC and Euros where you see participation from more obscure countries. The cream of the crop will rise to the top.

samkrut@mail.ru · Feb 28, 2019

Interesting that whoever is responsible for the news feed of Russian Firefox is def. not a fan of Zhenya. I already mentioned an article with blown out of reason estimates of how much Russian budget (taxpayers) pays for her staying in Canada. Today there were 2 more very negative articles about her in the first row of their news feed. Looks like the Russian media "Game of thrones" is running at full speed.

It will be over soon, though...

https://cdn1.savepice.ru/uploads/2019/2/28/fe68dcaf9ef5395d09031135ef600f43-full.jpg

theharleyquinn · Feb 28, 2019

Sugar Coated said:
Russia absolutely is in a golden era of figure skating with unprecedented talent. And I want to see more of these athletes compete but that doesn’t necessarily justify changing the rules for Worlds. Worlds is about an athlete representing a country so it makes sense to limit the number of athletes one country is allowed to send. The more athletes competing the greater chance for a country to produce a winner. I’m totally for getting rid of country affiliations completely but that’s not really consistent with the Olympics and would screw up funding for athletes.

The argument is that if Russia had such a deep dominant team of athletes then they shouldn’t have had any problem keeping 3 spots last year. Even if an athlete like Zhenya was injured, they should have had many other athletes that could score just as high. Even this year people are worried about keeping 3 spots which indicates that maybe Russia has incredible talent but that this alone doesn’t guarantee victory for a country. You have to be strategic about who you send, it’s part of the competition, not who has the greatest number of athletes with potential to win.

I think Japan is the only country this season with three spots where all of their skaters on the World team could be swapped out for three different ladies and they would still have no problem retaining their spots (likely wouldn't all be in medal contention, but could get enough points). It's a transition year for Russia in that many reliable ladies faltered or stepped back from competition, putting more pressure on the "lead" skater from the team to do well. This won't be the case next year when Russia will likely have 4-5 reliably high-scoring ladies in seniors.

samkrut@mail.ru · Feb 28, 2019

macy said:
i'm not sure how the current SB list is made, but i would be behind a SB list which keeps adding skaters total points throughout the season (maybe only skaters from the most dominant countries who have 2 GPs, extra if you make GPF, national scores don't count) and whoever has the highest totals by 2/1 of every year is a lock for worlds. obviously there would be exceptions and different rules for smaller countries or skaters who might be injured during the GP season, but this might be a better way to make sure some of the best of the best make worlds without considering limited spots.

No matter how SB list is made using it would preclude the current drama of both Liza and Mai not going to WC.

VenusHalley · Feb 28, 2019

Scott512 said:
Did you watch the olympics? Thats so much bigger than worlds. Worlds after olympics? Lol. Russia is in a golden era of ladies figure skating that will surpass anything any country has ever done in ladie figure skating!

You put so much on worlds last year and Zhenya an all time great ladies skater wasnt even there. That kind of changed things last worlds for the Russian girls for whatever
its worth. But keep harping on last years worlds where Russia had a weak team compared to this year. Others have moved on to this years team that will do alot better than last years team where Masha and Stasya failed to deliver. Alina OGM should not have even been there after being ill after olympics. Dont most OGM skip worlds? I thought so.

But this year the OGM is riding on the cushion of her OGM. Tuktik is exciting, Sofia is sassy and she skates well... Zhenya may be getting her form back.... but is it so much better than other to justify others are pushed out of the worlds?

Last year they send a girl that felt on her face while riding out of jump, girl whom many will remember for her horrible helicopter tanos... and well, Alina's performance was just sad.

Blame depth of the field all you want, but no way Russia (or even Japan) could fill 6 slots with something worthwhile pushing others out.

skylark · Feb 28, 2019

Lechat said:
Did TAT think the same after Alina’s victory las year ?

Good question. I don't know, but I'm guessing that what she expressed at that time was more emotional. :drama:

The other thing she said was that the scoring in both instances was very close. Alina at the Olympics and Evgenia at the Final Russian Cup both led after the SP, and that impacted the final score and result.

So in that sense, TAT was comparing the two events. But the implication of the first poster was that TAT said Evgenia's win at FRC was comparable to Alina's winning the Olympics. That isn't how I read TAT's comments.

YuBluByMe · Feb 28, 2019

malya said:
Bold prediction for worlds after all the fearmongering of losing 3 spots.

Russia will keep them easily. 5 - 8 was enough how can it be worse? Sofia will get in this range, and Alina probably above - > job already done.

And honestly I don't even know why it would be that big of a deal if disaster strikes and russia lost one, but some people will try to make one out of it

Even with Medvedeva unfairly on the team, I still don't understand the fear of losing three spots. Realistically, both Samodurova and Medvedeva would probably place in the lower ends of the top 10. Zagitova - the anchor - would have to bomb her FS and lower scoring skaters - such as both Americans and Lim - will have to skate well enough to score above her. All three skaters will have to place lower than 6th. Possible sure, but unlikely. It's actually harder for them to lose a spot than it is to keep it. I'll be impressed if they do actually lose a spot because that'll take a lot of skill... or lack of.

SkateSkates · Feb 28, 2019

VenusHalley said:
But this year the OGM is riding on the cushion of her OGM. Tuktik is exciting, Sofia is sassy and she skates well... Zhenya may be getting her form back.... but is it so much better than other to justify others are pushed out of the worlds?

Last year they send a girl that felt on her face while riding out of jump, girl whom many will remember for her horrible helicopter tanos... and well, Alina's performance was just sad.

Blame depth of the field all you want, but no way Russia (or even Japan) could fill 6 slots with something worthwhile pushing others out.

I disagree. Russia could fill those spots with Liza, Anna Tarusina and Gubanova - all 3 ladies worthy of worlds spots. And Japan could fill 3 additional spots with Mai, mako and Wakaba

Scott512 · Feb 28, 2019

VenusHalley said:
But this year the OGM is riding on the cushion of her OGM. Tuktik is exciting, Sofia is sassy and she skates well... Zhenya may be getting her form back.... but is it so much better than other to justify others are pushed out of the worlds?

Last year they send a girl that felt on her face while riding out of jump, girl whom many will remember for her horrible helicopter tanos... and well, Alina's performance was just sad.

Blame depth of the field all you want, but no way Russia (or even Japan) could fill 6 slots with something worthwhile pushing others out.

6 spots? Try 8 for Russia. Sports is about the best and competition not everyone gets in.

Alinas SEASON is better than Lizas and Sofias. Making her Russian #1 2 years in a row.

Scott512 · Feb 28, 2019

SkateSkates said:
I disagree. Russia could fill those spots with Liza, Anna Tarusina and Gubanova - all 3 ladies worthy of worlds spots. And Japan could fill 3 additional spots with Mai, mako and Wakaba

Very true. Sadly it won't happen.

Alex65 · Feb 28, 2019

SkateSkates said:
I disagree. Russia could fill those spots with Liza, Anna Tarusina and Gubanova - all 3 ladies worthy of worlds spots. And Japan could fill 3 additional spots with Mai, mako and Wakaba

And 10 out of 12 these ladies, in principle, are capable of medals. With fair judging and luck.

VenusHalley · Feb 28, 2019

Scott512 said:
6 spots? Try 8 for Russia. Sports is about the best and competition not everyone gets in.

Alinas SEASON is better than Lizas and Sofias. Making her Russian #1 2 years in a row.

Her season's best comes from Nebelhorn "everybody is overscored" Trophy, with rare two clean programs.

We could "try" 8 spots for Russia. But to quote Sheldon Cooper, we could also stop using the letter M, but that would be isguided and oronic.

Asides from Tuktik, there is not really anybody whom I would want to see, if that would mean knocking out others. Because I am a sucker for the first groups skaters. There are plenty competitions for big fed skaters to compete. I will watch them there, I would even watch the "Russo-Japanese tournament", but in the World's I want to see ladies from the whole world. Because it brings us such gems as Ivet Toth skating to AC/DC...

Maybe we should make it mandatory to have a skater skating to rock tunes every year and the said skater gets an automatic spot? J/k.

Sam-Skwantch · Feb 28, 2019

SkateSkates said:
I disagree. Russia could fill those spots with Liza, Anna Tarusina and Gubanova - all 3 ladies worthy of worlds spots. And Japan could fill 3 additional spots with Mai, mako and Wakaba

Stasya may be up and down but she is a world class talent when she hits. We can’t forget her

Next year we could probably add another 4-5 skaters in the mix who could challenge for a top 10 spot at senior WC.

It’s a real shame a talent like Gubanova will never get a chance at the international team though.

To think....someone capable of this performance is on the outside looking in and may never get a shot at the national team. Even with JGPF and potential GPF medals

https://youtu.be/j8VDCwOtdKU

Ziotic · Feb 28, 2019

Sam-Skwantch said:
Stasya may be up and down but she is a world class talent when she hits. We can’t forget her Next year we could probably add another 4-5 skaters in the mix who could challenge for a top 10 spot at senior WC.

It’s a real shame a talent like Gubanova will never get a chance at the international team though.

To think....someone capable of this performance is on the outside looking in and may never get a shot at the national team. Even with JGPF and potential GPF medals
https://youtu.be/j8VDCwOtdKU

Stasya has never gone above 200 internationally, I can’t see an argument where Russia deserves extra spots for her.

Vilord · Feb 28, 2019

I dont think we will see the Russia or Japan getting more than 3spots nor do I really think they should despite the massive talent pool. The Idea of giving the euros and 4cc champ a free pass to worls could be interesting but it is unlikely in my opinion. I do however think it would be better to base a nations spots on this seasons results (mainly GPs and CS) because we all know it can change drasticly between seasons.

Say you make a nations stadings based on all the WR points that each nations skaters bring in during the season (cunting GPS, JGPs and CSs). After the GPF the spots for Euros and 4cc is awarded where the best nations (about 3-5st) (Europeans and asian/american counted seperatly) are awarded 3spots another 10 or so get 2spots and the rest get 1. After Euros and 4cc the spots will be awarded for Worlds in the same way Nation 1-5 gets 3spots nation 6-15 gets 2 the rest gets 1. And of corse each athelete still has to reach the TES minimum.

This type of system would resolve the problem that some contries (canada this year, and probably spain for next euros) have more spots than they "deserve". For example this year I think it would give Korea 3 spots insted of Canada.

Ps. Obviously the particulars can be tweeked but I think the idea could be good. It has the bonus of encuraging contries to use all their CS spots and make them more exiting competitions.

2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

Sugar Coated

Scott512

malya

Sugar Coated

macy

Danibellerika

[email protected]

Medalist

theharleyquinn

[email protected]

Medalist

VenusHalley

skylark

Gazing at a Glorious Great Lakes sunset

YuBluByMe

May Rika spin her hair into GOLD….in 2026.

SkateSkates

Scott512

Scott512

Alex65

VenusHalley

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”

Ziotic

Vilord

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