The Effect of Reputation on GOE and PCS

So I had previously stated something about Polina's 2A and the atrocious GOE scores the jump received, but with more digging, I've discovered that it's not just Polina.

Here's what I said about Polina Tsurskaya (the scores are even more ridiculous now, knowing she has the highest 2A out of our current seniors):

Polya’s GOEs for her double axel are atrocious. Her double axel is easily one of the best (if not the best) in the world and merits a +5 (height/distance, good body position, difficult entrance, good takeoff, effortless). Her GOE at Skate America was 0.85 and she got 5 +2s and 4 +3s. What are you thinking judges?! And at Rostelecom (home ground may I remind you) she got 0.90 or 3 +2s, 3 +3s, 2 +4s and 1 +1 (how does one even give a +1 to a double axel like that?)

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Now, let's look at Alina. Now, I absolutely cherish Alina (as the matter of fact she's my favorite skater EVER), but it's a given fact that her double axel is not her best jump, and would definitely lose if it were compared to Polina's. But Alina gets extremely high scores for her double axel, and while, yes, her axel does hit some bullets (difficult entrance, matched to music, good body position, effortless), it doesn't hit all three of the most important points, which means she should at most only receive +3, but if you look at her score sheets there are 4s scattered throughout. And her GOEs are always higher than Polina's (0.99, 0.90, 0.99, in Finland and 1.04, 0.94, 0.99 in Russia).

I also think Mariah Bell's 2A scores are slightly low for how good her 2A really is. For example in her Skate Canada SP, 4 bullets were checked (good distance, effortless, good body position, difficult entrance/exit) but all the judges only gave her +3 and +2.

More noticeably, PCS are heavily affected by reputation as well. For example: Marin Honda. A girl's whos SS who is quite literally the definition of 10.00 has been getting abysmal 7.50s-8.50s. Her performance ability this season is also just sublime, but still, her PCS have never gotten over 8.50, which is just plain idiotic. I think obviously some reputational downgrading is going on, and that the judges don't really want to reward skater with "inconsistencies" super high PCS (but I don't really understand why?).

Also Sotskova (yes I'm basically just going to mention all my favorites). Last seaosn she was receiving 8.50s and sometimes even 9.00s in PCS, but now every single category is a 7. Coincidentally, her consistency is also going down, and more jumps are being marked as underrotated. I see no visible deteroiatation in her PCS (rather I would argue that PE should be increasing in the SP), and her SS are also pretty good actually. She isn't particularly fast, but she has very deep edges and good flow. And like Masha, Zhenya's PCS have also taken a skydive. From consistent high 9.00s to 8.00s.

So what do you think about the effect of reputation or previous performances on GOE and PCS? Is it a fair thing to give lower scores to good jumps just because the other jumps were bad? Is it fair to give lower grades on performance just because your not sure the next time this skater performs whether they'll be a splatfest or clean? Do you think the reputation PCS that Alina has been receiving this season will last until next season (aka. the rise of the 3A)?

Of course I just mentioned examples from ladies, because that is the discipline I follow closely, but off the top of my head I can already say that SHoma Uno quite obviously has some suspiciously high GOE scores.

There are guidelines and procedures in place on how to score elements etc. but people need to understand that at the end of the day, subjectivity aspect of the sport will always play out. That is just the nature of the sport.

Im not sure if it was Eteri who exactly said it but one of her team's coaches said that since there is subjectivity part of the sport, you need to control what you can control like elements hitting the bullet points, jumps not falling or ur, being consistent etc. Used it to your fullest advantage and just let the rest happen.

https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/s...s-there-an-official-explanation-of-what-it-is

That is a good discussion. At the end of the day, the judges love consistency, and that will make your reputation rocket, and will net you points. That is all the scores mean; they are not some useful indicator of the actual skating going on.

The fans, of course, want to see their favourites get high scores, and so make up reasons like "skated with joy and charisma" that they personally felt in the program and paint it as the truth for themselves, whenever someone criticises their favourite for being abominably overscored, because the judges "always overscore anyway". It usually happens for a specific skater per era. Funny to read, although also quite pitiful, because you can't even expect the truth and objectivity from such people with varying standards for skaters they like vs dislike. Perhaps they make up the judging panel too, which is why it's at such a bad place.

In addition to everything that's been said so far, sometimes reputation definitely doesn't help GOE and PCS, quite the opposite. I've heard it called "tall poppy syndrome". Not going to name names, but certain very popular skaters sometimes end up with imaginary URs and edge calls or bizarre underscoring in certain aspects of PCS...