2012 Skate America Ice Dance SD

[Victura]

D&W have a good SD to carry them through the season but I think it's vulnerable. Marina can tell us in a press conference that Meryl has been taking ballet and is a little ballerina now and that may work on some but the ballet theme just shines a spotlight on her posture issues that have been criticized for years.

I agree. I think it's admirable that they are trying something new for them, but one only has to look at the Giselle that Katia Gordeeva did that was linked a few pages back to see the huge difference in posture and carriage. The toe hops are charming and the program as a whole is well choreographed though, so hopefully they'll get a chance to develop it more as the season progresses.

Re: Tanith on Ice Network - I didn't find her appraisal of Charlie to be overly effusive, and I'm not even a D/W fan.

 

[heyhey]

With regards to icenetwork's or universal for ice dance, I would prefer Ben Agosto commentating rather than Tanith Belbin. He is impartial and actually I find he is more knowledgeable and less prone to these little digs at other teams. Look commentators should point out weakness' but they should also point out strengths...my two cents...

 

[jcoates]

D/V while keeping their technique well seems like lost drive, especiall Meryl, just dancing the pattern perfectly and that is all. It could be that no-Igor in the team was a factor. Also, I find her look horrible: a middle-aged housewife hairstyle and a childish ballerina dress. :think:

Given that the music is from a ballet where the title character wears such an iconic dress and hairstyle that virtually all women portraying the role are costumed nearly identically, what would you have her wear? A Katy Perry outfit? A Rhianna buzz cut? Edgy is not always appropriate. The shading of the dress can be adjusted as can the form of Meryl's bun, but I suspect that the basic look will remain unchanged.

 

[A.H.Black]

Given that the music is from a ballet where the title character wears such an iconic dress and hairstyle that virtually all women portraying the role are costumed nearly identically, what would you have her wear? A Katy Perry outfit? A Rhianna buzz cut? Edgy is not always appropriate. The shading of the dress can be adjusted as can the form of Meryl's bun, but I suspect that the basic look will remain unchanged.

thank you.

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

Given that the music is from a ballet where the title character wears such an iconic dress and hairstyle that virtually all women portraying the role are costumed nearly identically, what would you have her wear? A Katy Perry outfit? A Rhianna buzz cut? Edgy is not always appropriate. The shading of the dress can be adjusted as can the form of Meryl's bun, but I suspect that the basic look will remain unchanged.

Yeah, but she looks so Disney-Princessy that you half expect dwarfs to march in step behind her. I like the bun, want the dress changed. And there was nothing really balletic about that dance.

 

[dorispulaski]

If I have time, I will write up some thoughts from the arena. IMO W&P should have been closer to Bobrova & Soloviev, and perhaps below them, in my book, because B&S have significantly improved, and despite the extra viewing W&P's program got at Nebelhorn, they still had visible roughnesses and hesitations that wil I'm sure be ironed out by Worlds, but are still there now. W&P's rotations on their twizzles were relatively slow, and they didn't get the distance on them, either, for example. B&S's waltz footwork was charming, and properly in a waltz vein. There were so many cuts in W&P's program that they seemed to be trying to squeeze the whole of Sound of Music in 4 minutes, and it was too much; the program didn't gel. It isn't soup yet, for me.

YMMV

As to Davis & White's routine, it went very well in the arena. You might think that a Seattle venue would be all Americans, but it wasn't. The announcer polled the audience at each session (are you from here or not) and about half the people were not from the Seattle area. There were a huge number of Japanese people, and we were seated among people generically identifying as "European" with "Europe" signs. Seattle is at a major USA hub from Asia, but it is even closer to Canada, and there were many Canadians here, several buses full on tours) so it isn't like W&P lacked fan support compared to B&S, for example.

When you hear the arena clapping in time through a compulsory dance (the YP CD done straight through at the end of D&W's program), you know that something about the routine & the music cuts moved the audience. And D&W's SD got about as good a standing ovation as Hanyu's SP did.. about 3/4 of the arena (Mr. Ski's estimate). This is an arena with very narrow seats and little footroom, and it is difficult to put your stuff down and stand up and clap for anyone. The crowd has been very stingy with standing O's. Neither B&S nor W&P got one. Hanyu's and D&W's have been the biggest up to now, including Ashley Wagner's.

I think D&W's Giselle is a good SD program. In picking a program to a ballet which has very well defined costume expectations, they are sort of stuck...they are going to look like Giselle in blue and the gamekeeper. I don't expect to see the costumes change a whole lot. Here are 3 productions of Giselle, act one, chosen at random, and they differ only in slight shades of blue, the volume of crinoline, and whether the gamekeeper character has brown tights or not, or a whole leatherish top or just a leatherish vest.

http://www.culturevulture.net/Dance/images/scalagiselle3.jpg

http://www.culturevulture.net/Dance/images/giselle02.jpg

http://photos.lasvegassun.com/media....jpg?214bc4f9d9bd7c08c7d0f6599bb3328710e01e7b

That is one reason I am not crazy about ballet programs in general; the weight of traditions stifles a lot of the creativity that ice dancers could bring to the music otherwise, and not just in costuming.

However, doing the yankee polka to a ballet is a crazy enough concept to satisfy; Meryl & Charlie performed it joyfully, and seemed much smoother, faster, and more practiced than their competitors. Yes, it's the beginning of the season, and there are things to work on, but it was a good start.

In general, this is the first group of SD's where I actually liked a lot of them!

The Germans are so brave to be doing a Polka one night stand comedy routine. I liked it a lot!

If you want to see what a Yankee Polka character would have involved in the old CD days, do check out Lynn & Logan's Ring of Fire number! I loved it too.

 

[janetfan]

Yeah, but she looks so Disney-Princessy that you half expect dwarfs to march in step behind her. I like the bun, want the dress changed. And there was nothing really balletic about that dance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1e86zTj_bE&feature=related

If one looks through several more clips from Giselle it would not be hard to see how appropriate the dress is.

I liked the program....

 

[jcoates]

Yeah, but she looks so Disney-Princessy that you half expect dwarfs to march in step behind her. I like the bun, want the dress changed. And there was nothing really balletic about that dance.

To be fair (and this is not a criticism), Meryl almost always looks like a Disney princess. It's not necessarily intentional, it's just the whole natural package. The voice, the angular bone structure and being paired with a partner who's hair and manner appear to mimic several Disney princes. They could easily get summer jobs in Orlando if they needed fallback employment. It really can't be helped IMO.

 

[Skater Boy]

With regards to icenetwork's or universal for ice dance, I would prefer Ben Agosto commentating rather than Tanith Belbin. He is impartial and actually I find he is more knowledgeable and less prone to these little digs at other teams. Look commentators should point out weakness' but they should also point out strengths...my two cents...

Well I think Tanith is knoweldgable but communicating is another thing. I don't want to get beaten up but I understand that Tanith has a higher Q rating ann to be blunt - she is very attractive which doesn't hurt when you are hiring a commentator. Sorry, if that is offensive but there is some truth to this.

 

[Skater Boy]

I still find D and W way overmarked. And they could both cut their hair if they want to get rid of that Disney look. I actually would love them to see them skate in a Disney show- they have such likeable personalities...Meryl could play all the princesses or princess types and Charlie her prince.

 

[heyhey]

Well I think Tanith is knoweldgable but communicating is another thing. I don't want to get beaten up but I understand that Tanith has a higher Q rating ann to be blunt - she is very attractive which doesn't hurt when you are hiring a commentator. Sorry, if that is offensive but there is some truth to this.

SkaterBoy - I am not naive. If it wasn't for Tanith's looks, she would not be commentating or when she did the hosting duties on that skating reality show with Johnny Weir...but prior to the Olympics I would hope that the higher ups would either give pointers or at least have someone like Ben - co-commentate to at least counterbalance...unlike tennis where you can actually push the mute button - you can't exactly do that during a skating performance...another person who I think would be great is Emily Samuelson...and she is not exactly hard on the eyes and would bring another perspective...

 

[skatingfan04]

Didn't think I'd ever find myself coming to the defense of Davis/White, but I think we're blowing this a tad out of proportion. Were they overmarked? Of course! It's the season opener, their one of the best two teams in the world, and it's their home country GP event. That happens every year, to pretty much every team. Yes, I agree that they probably shouldn't have been quite so far ahead of W/P, but I can't honsetly say that I would have put W/P ahead of them either. Since this is a GP event, and in the end it's going to be the placement that counts (towards the final) and not the numbers (at least for D/W and W/P), I don't think it's worth all of this upheval. The pacements will turn out as they should (provided neither team tanks tonight). I have always much preferred W/P artistically, and I probably always will, but that doesn't mean I'm blind to D/W's technical abilities. Granted, the points difference between them was mostly artistic (PCS), which I too find hard to stomach, but it's still early. I suspect the gap between them will close in the bigger competitions later in the season, as has been the case in the past few years. Let's give everyone a few competitions to develop their prgrams before we blow a gasket.

 

[bellafurr]

Of course you are going to put W&P closer to B&S than to D&W, I bet Davis and White will have the best short dance ever.

 

[colleen o'neill]

Yes, do lighten up on Meryl..her costume is appropriate , but could stand some tweaking to make it more suited to her ..and I expect there will be tweaking .

She's very tiny, and there's a bit too much going on for her size and body type. I'm going to hope they lose the apron and give her a bodice more like the one in the last ballet pic doris posted ( one that comes up over the shoulders , and with narrower lacings ) .... make her puffed sleeves a bit less puffy ( she has square shoulders )..and let the skirt cover the petticoat so it only shows when she moves. Right now , she has the all these horizontal lines ( petticoat , hem , apron ,top and bottom of the strongly contrasted corset ) cutting across her body, and too much sleeve.

I loved the little hops to that particular piece of music ..echoes the ballet choreo nicely.

Oops...out of time..

 

[icefan1005]

I find it always helps to rewatch these programs the morning after when you are sober and the excitement of the season opener has passed. D&W have a good SD to carry them through the season but I think it's vulnerable. Marina can tell us in a press conference that Meryl has been taking ballet and is a little ballerina now and that may work on some but the ballet theme just shines a spotlight on her posture issues that have been criticized for years. When Bobrova looks more fluid and relaxed then you do you know you have some work to do. For their sake I think they should take the marks for what they are and look at it with a critical eye which I am sure they will do. One judge may have gotten excited and awarded a ten but three judges gave you marks in the high 8´s. I think those judges saw what was skated last night. Given them such high GOE on the YP pattern which was clearly smaller then it should be at their level helps no one. But Grand Prix events alway inflate scores of the top ranked skaters to, imo, assure the right teams end up in the GPF. Then they all get long faces when their marks drop at Worlds and they feel it was their best skate to date. Just have to look at the world record Hanyu got to see how happy the judges are at SA :lol:

I thought W&P looked the most polished so far, that B&S the most improved and that D&W haven´t gotten a lot of mileage on their SD yet.

I thought their patterns were small too; still, it's early in the season so they can work on that. W/P's patterns had more ice coverage.

 

[Mrs. P]

Doris probably said all that needed to be said being there, but I'll add my two cents from the arena...

I thought I would never say this but B/S were undermarked compared to W/P. I enjoyed both, but I felt that B/S were surpringly crisp relative to W/P. During the warmup, W/P were sooooo fast compared to B/S and could even give D/W a run for their money, but that distinction did not show when they actually danced. I think they should have perhaps gotten close to the same score, rather than W/p being three points higher.

But D/W was the class of the field tonight no doubt. I think the speed is not obvious on tv because of all the short steps of the Yankee Polka, but was quite obvious to me when they flllewwww by us. Their step sequence was amazing...and on my god, I felt I burned calories just watching them do that ballet sequence into the second polka pattern at the end of the program. I was a bit skeptical about Giselle becoming a polka, but they made me a believer. In fact, it didn't even feel similar to the other Giselle programs I've seen in the past, other than Meryl's costume, which I did not find that bad. Maybe change the skirt slightly but I was surprised to see all the fuss about the costume afterwards.

Other notes:
Alessandeini/Valturi had the coolest lift, where she fliped and landed on his skate. Too bad it did not get the levels...but it was dare devilish yet classy. I loved it! My husband also made a point of saying how much he liked their costumes, which is saying something. He did not say that about any of the other couples.

Lynn and Logan's dance was one of my favorites. I can see technically why they are a distant 4th, but That doesn't change the fact that the program was creative, they performed it well and the audience responded well to it. Also my husband loves Chris Issak, so that was a plus for him.

Z/G had a creative concept, but I felt they didn't really bring that out during the whole dance when they were clearly focusing on the tech...but it done well, this could also be a fun program to watch!

Canunsico/McManus were clearly the newbies here, but I think they had a nice slowing here. I hope they keep at it, I think they have a nice package that just needs extra polish.

 

[Tonichelle]

I still find D and W way overmarked. And they could both cut their hair if they want to get rid of that Disney look. I actually would love them to see them skate in a Disney show- they have such likeable personalities...Meryl could play all the princesses or princess types and Charlie her prince.

There's really only one Disney Prince with wild/unkept/longish hair - The Beast/Prince Adam - otherwise the others (even Flynn and Aladdin) have shorter cuts (the more modern princes seem to have some form of Mullet more often than not).

 

[rain]

Yeah, I thought Davis's costume was a huge misfire. She looked like Disney Snow White. Awful, simply awful. I found it terribly distracting throughout the program. I also preferred W/P. I've never been a giant fan of W/P but I think this program fits them like glove and was wonderfully performed. That's not to say I'm quibbling over placements, but I did think W/P should be closer to D/W than to B/S.

 

[pangtongfan]

Davis & White looked good but definitely not good enough to challenge Virtue & Moir who will totally dominate 2012/2013, winning every event this season.

 

[chuckm]

I have always much preferred W/P artistically, and I probably always will, but that doesn't mean I'm blind to D/W's technical abilities. Granted, the points difference between them was mostly artistic (PCS), which I too find hard to stomach, but it's still early. I suspect the gap between them will close in the bigger competitions later in the season, as has been the case in the past few years.

The gap isn't just in PCS, it's in GOE as well. D/W got +6.75 GOE to W/P's +4.16, even though D/W lost levels in the first portion of the YP. And this was W/P's second performance of the season to D/W's first. IMO W/P would have to improve their speed and precision in order to close the gap significantly. It's not as if D/W aren't working on improving as well.